Need advice.

[luissuperdog]

Greetings.
I'm in the planing stage of my new house and need advice about home automation. I sort of figure out that the best options are AMX, Creston and control4.
What I need.
1.-home audio with 4 zones with central music and video distribution.
2.-Security, home alarm, video cameras(4), Garage door control.
3.-A/C control
4.-dedicated home theater
5.-Lighting control.

Now the house i'm building is about 7000sqft. I live in south Texas and I have only a few installers available in the area. I have contacted all of them and each gave me different options as the best system to use. I liked the guy that gave me the idea of using control4 since he installs all of the other brands.
Since AMX and creston are more expensive and I realy have the money to go all the way in automation. (but don't want to over do it). What will I be missing if I use Control4????

By the way The guys at bestbuy are morons charging for advice on planing and stimates???


I liked the simple and ease to use remote of Control4 and seems to be a realy simple system compared to the other brands.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The simplicity of Control4 is also the drawback to Control4 from everything that I have heard. It's more or less a boxed system which has limitations - but it's a big box.

Crestron/AMX aren't box solutions, but you do have some significant costs involved and moreso, you are going to have serious issues if you don't have a custom installer who really knows what the heck they are doing.

I would actually recommend that you contact Crestron/AMX directly and ask for recommended local dealers to you. Not just a list, but ones they know are good, then do some homework on those dealers to ensure the end user was really happy with their final installation.

I will say: 4 zones is nothing. My home is 2,800 square feet and I'm running close to a dozen audio zones. It seems extremely unlikely to me in a 7,000 square foot home that you really have only four zones which will make you happy and satisfied for the lifetime you intend to own and live in the home.

What's weird, is that to properly design a home A/V system can take 24-40 hours or more depending on the complexity. While you happily paid an architect and many other people for their expertise in your home design, you actually are calling out a company for wanting to do the same. A good company who is planning to invest dozens of hours of professional labor into your system design really should be charging for their planning, but often will credit that time back if you make the purchase.

You may also want to check to see if there are smaller installers in your area. I know that one of the things I do when I install is that I look for b-stock items online which have 30 year lifespans and then install/warranty them myself. It can save a customer hundreds, or thousands of dollars on an installation to go this route and the product works and looks like brand new.

I can only say that I've seen the work of dozens of companies, and there are very few who actually have engineers working for them who know how to sell vs. sales guys who don't have a clue how to engineer. You must watch out for the later. The sales guys who promise the world, but then give you an underpowered, non-customizable solution which doesn't meet your needs will not be looking to work with you when issues arise. The engineer, on the other hand, who sits down with you and really tells you what you have to do to reach your final goal is not trying to sell you, but is just giving you the shot of reality about what to expect, or what you must do to reach that final goal.

If you limit your customization enough, Control4 certainly can handle things. But, if you really want full customization, that is only something Crestron/AMX can deliver. A good company can deliver it in a reasonable time with a solid interface as well.

 

[highfigh]

Greetings.
I'm in the planing stage of my new house and need advice about home automation. I sort of figure out that the best options are AMX, Creston and control4.
What I need.
1.-home audio with 4 zones with central music and video distribution.
2.-Security, home alarm, video cameras(4), Garage door control.
3.-A/C control
4.-dedicated home theater
5.-Lighting control.

Now the house i'm building is about 7000sqft. I live in south Texas and I have only a few installers available in the area. I have contacted all of them and each gave me different options as the best system to use. I liked the guy that gave me the idea of using control4 since he installs all of the other brands.
Since AMX and creston are more expensive and I realy have the money to go all the way in automation. (but don't want to over do it). What will I be missing if I use Control4????

By the way The guys at bestbuy are morons charging for advice on planing and stimates???


I liked the simple and ease to use remote of Control4 and seems to be a realy simple system compared to the other brands.

I would advise against designing the system in a way that it becomes difficult, or next to impossible, to re-integrate in the event that the controller company fails. There's a reason it's called 'Control4'- the first three versions failed miserably and took a lot of people/companies with them. I would select equipment that can be controlled in a variety of ways- IR, RS-232 and directly, using buttons on the face or a dedicated remote. If the controller fails and the system setup is extremely complex, it will be almost impossible for most people to operate even the most basic functions.

Security companies often do the install without charging for the equipment directly, but they make it up with fees in the course of the service. Not necessarily a bad thing, since they're also responsible for the equipment working. Security cameras should be a separate system, controllable by IR or RS232, and able to be integrated with other equipment. Most security DVRs have at least one video output and if the "spot out" is sent to the controller or video distribution system, it's as easy as pressing a button on the remote if you want to see what triggered the camera record function. You can use a secondary annunciator, like a different doorbell or flashing light, to let you know that cameras have started recording but I would caution against allowing this to happen unless you never expect anyone during the hours this is active. If it happens all day & all night, it becomes a 'Boy who cried wolf' situation and nobody will pay attention.

The Audio & Video systems can easily be designed as stand-alone with integration possibility.

Make sure EVERYTHING goes to a single head end. Not only will power and ground loops not be much of an issue but it makes reconfiguring much easier. There's much less running through the whole house, troubleshooting, if cabling needs to be checked out, too.

Best Buy will erode the prices and reputation of Control4. They're really not geared for this kind of thing, except in the most basic setups. They're trying to be all things, to all people and that almost never works. Just being the last big box electronics chain doesn't mean they'll do it right- Geek Squad, or not.

 

[luissuperdog]

Thanks for the good information that will help me to get things started.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You may want to take a look at this thread as well...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64985

Wish I lived in the area and could come by to talk to you about your needs, but you do want to go with someone who is local and who can support you locally.

Make SURE whatever company you work with:
1. They have a staff programmer who can support the work which is done on your home internally.

2. That YOU (or your home) gets ownership of the programming code. If you become unhappy later on, you should not have to pay to get the programming code you already paid for.

3. Make an effort to meet the programmer and get his home phone number or a personal cel number just in case things go sour and you need some support.

I am pretty sure, but not positive - Control4 was formed by ex Crestron/AMX employees and was created from their expertise after AMX (I believe) was purchased, then sold, then repurchased and renamed from Panja back to AMX and they were extremely unhappy with the direction of the company.

I'm not about to knock Control4 for their longevity, but it is true that control systems are a huge company support item which requires a lot of money to maintain, which means they need to be profitable companies.

Crestron and AMX go very deep on this, Crestron - far deeper, especially on the residential front.

The best part is that once they are up and running those systems tend to last forever and a day. Literally, I have systems I installed several years ago and haven't had to maintain once since the installation. Commercial side, my installations are at the Pentagon, so to say they need to be reliable is an understatement.

 

[luissuperdog]

Thanks for the info Mr Ninja.
The problem is that I only have 3 options in the area for installers. One of those is Bestbuy. I know that those guys are going down soon due to the economy. The other 2 option one is a very reliable caraudio installer that converted to home audio and they been arround for more than 20 years. But doing home stuff only for 5 years. Thay where realy nice about explaining the options and differnet system they could install and told me right away the difference in Prices that they had. And they had equipment installed and working to show (nice)

The guys at best buy didn't want to seat and talk about equipment unless I had and appointment and paid them for consultation. And they didn't had any equipment in the store.

llways been of the idea that if you want my bussiness you work in my terms. And I dont want to pay you money upfront and then turns out that you are the more expensive option.

Since you guys have realy good experience as installers. What will you guys recomend me to do. Should I use Control4 and save a ton of money. Or should I expend more money????? I do have the money to pay for the other systems. But I don't see any difference on the way the systems work other than the control4 is less complicated.

I'm building this house and plan to live in it for more than 20 year(if I get that old)

 

[BMXTRIX]

My biggest issue with Control4, from what I have heard, is that it is a boxed solution. Less complicated always means less functionality. Bottom line. When things are simplified to a single box, like your Blu-ray player, or your cable box, then simple is a good thing. It gives you 100% control of that single product, as expected - consistently and reliably.

But, if you are talking about an adaptable system, such as your complete home audio integrated system, then products which are 'simpler' are never as dynamic in their ability to control different systems and that lack of versatility will force you to use a product, at some point, which is a compromise between what you want, and what the system demands.

This is where Crestron & AMX excel. It is not something I can go into detail on with Control4, but my limited discussions with a local Crestron/Control4 delear is that there are times when Control4 is great, and times when it is not. It really depends on you.

If I were in front of you, selling you something, then I would be pushing for Crestron, because that's what I know, backwards and forwards, and because I would source most of what you would need from them as b-stock and pass the savings on to you.

But, your real expense is not going to be the control system. It will be the equipment that runs your home. Controllable HVAC interfaces, lighting, motorized blinds, amplifiers, pre-amps, equipment racks, cooling, switching, and a lot of wiring.

But, the one thing I can say with my experience is that Crestron & AMX tend to be bulletproof once installed. You may be able to work with a dealer who can help you get some programming code so you can load and make revisions on your own, but you would need to check carefully with different installers.

I do wish you luck - I know you aren't getting a solidly defined answer from me on this.

 

[Ravino4]

Tips, Advice, Comments?

Hi I'm an amateur audiophile so please go easy on me, I'm working on a custom set of speakers and wanted to check if I'm on the right track. I purchased some used tower speakers and replaced the components.

Here is what I had to start.

Pair of Scott SP-826 towers (used)
2.5" tweeter
5" mid
12" subwoofer
12" passive radiator
110W rms
200 peak

I swapped out the components, here is what I did.

1" Pyle Pro PDBT28 titanium super tweeter
5-1/4" PSB AL 32 Alpha Mini/Midi
12" Rockford Fosgate P1S812 subwoofer
the radiator is still the same, I'm looking for a replacement

I also have a center channel that is customized with new drivers aswell. Original was a Pure Acoustics QX900 C.
Two 5-1/4" woofers
1" silk dome tweeter

I replaced with.
Two 5-1/4" PSB Image 3LR Midbass
PSB 80011 tweeter

Tell me what you guys think. Thanks.