Need advice on my Marantz SR8012

[sls141]

Last year I bought a Marantz SR8012 to upgrade from my old Denon AVR. Very happy with it so far, running it setup as 11.1 surround system. I decided to upgrade my main speakers from Paradigm Studio 20 V5s to Vandersteen Model 3A Signatures. I'm still waiting for them to arrive. The Vandys are rated as "6 ohms nominal 4 ohms minimum" with the added stipulation of "The Amplifier Should be Stable into a 4 Ohm Load." The Marantz manual reads "Use speakers with an impedance of 4 – 16 Ω/ohms." So I see no problem, but there are three settings to choose from on the receiver, 8 ohm(default), 6 ohm or 4 ohm. I'm inclined to go with the 6 ohm setting, but the guy I bought the Vandys from said run them at the 4 ohm setting. All the other speakers are rated as 8 ohm. I called Marantz and wasn't confident with the knowledgeability of the CSR I was speaking with, as they were concerned about all of the other speakers being rated at 8 ohms, but did recommend setting it to 6 ohms. All advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[lovinthehd]

Leave it at the highest setting IMO...try this https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

 

[mazersteven]

I decided to upgrade my main speakers from Paradigm Studio 20 V5s to Vandersteen Model 3A Signatures.

Now that's an Up-Grade

 

[PENG]

Last year I bought a Marantz SR8012 to upgrade from my old Denon AVR. Very happy with it so far, running it setup as 11.1 surround system. I decided to upgrade my main speakers from Paradigm Studio 20 V5s to Vandersteen Model 3A Signatures. I'm still waiting for them to arrive. The Vandys are rated as "6 ohms nominal 4 ohms minimum" with the added stipulation of "The Amplifier Should be Stable into a 4 Ohm Load." The Marantz manual reads "Use speakers with an impedance of 4 – 16 Ω/ohms." So I see no problem, but there are three settings to choose from on the receiver, 8 ohm(default), 6 ohm or 4 ohm. I'm inclined to go with the 6 ohm setting, but the guy I bought the Vandys from said run them at the 4 ohm setting. All the other speakers are rated as 8 ohm. I called Marantz and wasn't confident with the knowledgeability of the CSR I was speaking with, as they were concerned about all of the other speakers being rated at 8 ohms, but did recommend setting it to 6 ohms. All advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

First step is to find out your power need based on the Vandersteen 3A's impedance and sensitivity specs, your seating distance, and the maximum SPL you want to have. Without that, we can only guess based on assumptions we make.

 

[sls141]

First step is to find out your power need based on the Vandersteen 3A's impedance and sensitivity specs, your seating distance, and the maximum SPL you want to have. Without that, we can only guess based on assumptions we make.

Sensitivity 87 dB, 1 meter/2.83 volt input
Impedance 6 ohms nominal 4 ohms minimum
Seating distance 8 feet
Max SPL ?
For 2 channel listening, the mood I'm in will determine how loud I think it should be at the moment. Sometimes, I want it pretty damn loud, but usually moderate levels are the norm.
For surround, I have trusted Audyssey to handle the setup for the most part. We'll see how it handles the Vandys when the time comes. I'm guessing it will want to set the Vandys to large. My Denon AVR used to set the Paradigms to large, but I would switch it to small and set the crossover to 80hz. The Marantz would set them to small and the crossover to 40 hz. There again, I went with 80hz for the crossover.
Once I got all of the 11.1 surround setup, and watching "Fight Club," the scene where the other jet collides into them was really loud. I knew it was coming but was caught off guard that I had to quick find the remote to turn it down, in fear of frying some speakers. All was OK though.

 

[PENG]

Sensitivity 87 dB, 1 meter/2.83 volt input
Impedance 6 ohms nominal 4 ohms minimum
Seating distance 8 feet
Max SPL ?
For 2 channel listening, the mood I'm in will determine how loud I think it should be at the moment. Sometimes, I want it pretty damn loud, but usually moderate levels are the norm.
For surround, I have trusted Audyssey to handle the setup for the most part. We'll see how it handles the Vandys when the time comes. I'm guessing it will want to set the Vandys to large. My Denon AVR used to set the Paradigms to large, but I would switch it to small and set the crossover to 80hz. The Marantz would set them to small and the crossover to 40 hz. There again, I went with 80hz for the crossover.
Once I got all of the 11.1 surround setup, and watching "Fight Club," the scene where the other jet collides into them was really loud. I knew it was coming but was caught off guard that I had to quick find the remote to turn it down, in fear of frying some speakers. All was OK though.

Here's my spreadsheet that shows the amp power required (377 W) for "reference" level at your mlp (8 ft):

Ref level is very loud, and the calculations were based on THX's so the SPL would be from only one speaker.
That means if you listen to stereo with two speakers, and if you are happy with 99 dB peak (should still be quite loud in your room), you would need about 50 WPC, and the SR8012 should be adequate.

I would suggest you use a separate 250 W/400 WPC 8/4 Ohm stereo power amp to drive the Vandy 3As. If you have a limited budget, a pair of Outlaw monoblocks would be a good choice imo.

By the way, those speakers can go very low, but it would be a mistake to set the crossover to below 60 Hz.

 

[sls141]

Here's my spreadsheet that shows the amp power required (377 W) for "reference" level at your mlp (8 ft):

View attachment 42256

Ref level is very loud, and the calculations were based on THX's so the SPL would be from only one speaker.
That means if you listen to stereo with two speakers, and if you are happy with 99 dB peak (should still be quite loud in your room), you would need about 50 WPC, and the SR8012 should be adequate.

I would suggest you use a separate 250 W/400 WPC 8/4 Ohm stereo power amp to drive the Vandy 3As. If you have a limited budget, a pair of Outlaw monoblocks would be a good choice imo.

By the way, those speakers can go very low, but it would be a mistake to set the crossover to below 60 Hz.

Thanks for the info.
I still don't have them here, up'n running yet. Of course, I'll explore how well everything performs on the SR8012 in 2 channel and 11.1 surround. The chart from Gene's review of the SR8012 has me hopeful that I'll be content for a little while at least, with the 2 channel power.

Two monoblocks does sound tempting.
But as far as the setting of 8ohm, 6ohm or 4ohm in the original question, I'd want to leave it at 8ohm, correct?

 

[mazersteven]

Two monoblocks does sound tempting.

Rock Solid Amps

Model 2220

Mono? Mini? Micro? Magnificent? Whatever that M is, this is one UNREAL little single-channel amp. 200 Watts (conservatively!) into a 3-inch chassis with balanced input stage to offer Common Mode Rejection! MANUAL See Front Panel Huge See Rear Panel Huge

outlawaudio.com

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the info.
I still don't have them here, up'n running yet. Of course, I'll explore how well everything performs on the SR8012 in 2 channel and 11.1 surround. The chart from Gene's review of the SR8012 has me hopeful that I'll be content for a little while at least, with the 2 channel power.

View attachment 42269

Two monoblocks does sound tempting.
But as far as the setting of 8ohm, 6ohm or 4ohm in the original question, I'd want to leave it at 8ohm, correct?

I can't/won't tell you what to do obviously except to follow instructions. If I were to do it for my own use, I would have no issue with leaving it in the default setting unless my speakers were truly 4 Ohm nominal with dips below that; and also only if my power requirements are always well below 50% of the amp's rated output.

So publicly I would only say you should follow the instructions in the owner's manual, and for better reliability/longevity, put fan on top of the unit. Denon reported run "hot" (to me it is just warmer), and Marantz even more so because of the added heat from the HDAMs (likely just a touch more).

Regarding the CEA 2000 dynamic test, it is helpful in the sense that a lot of music such as classical and jazz could have up to 20 dB or even high peaks that don't last more than 20 ms +/-, but if you listen to compressed music, or live rock concerts and such, don't count on those rating.

Again, my calculator did show the SR8012 should be adequate but for me I would feel better driving them with the Outlaw Monoblocks. The Monolith amps are good too if you don't mind the weight and heat.

 

[sls141]

I can't/won't tell you what to do obviously except to follow instructions. If I were to do it for my own use, I would have no issue with leaving it in the default setting unless my speakers were truly 4 Ohm nominal with dips below that; and also only if my power requirements are always well below 50% of the amp's rated output.

So publicly I would only say you should follow the instructions in the owner's manual, and for better reliability/longevity, put fan on top of the unit. Denon reported run "hot" (to me it is just warmer), and Marantz even more so because of the added heat from the HDAMs (likely just a touch more).

Regarding the CEA 2000 dynamic test, it is helpful in the sense that a lot of music such as classical and jazz could have up to 20 dB or even high peaks that don't last more than 20 ms +/-, but if you listen to compressed music, or live rock concerts and such, don't count on those rating.

Again, my calculator did show the SR8012 should be adequate but for me I would feel better driving them with the Outlaw Monoblocks. The Monolith amps are good too if you don't mind the weight and heat.

Finally I have the Vandys up and running. I've been busy trying to get them tweaked for 2 channel with a solid phantom center. I had to toe them in a bit, but the soundstage is still even wider than the Paradigms. The listening distance is now actually just a little over 7 feet. I left the 8 ohm default setting stay as is BTW. For most music I really don't feel that the sub is needed. I haven't ran Audyssey yet. I'll get to that today sometime. So far I'm really pleased with the volume I'm getting and haven't got the protection circuit to light up, yet. The best word to describe these speakers is "Awesome!"

 

[TLS Guy]

Finally I have the Vandys up and running. I've been busy trying to get them tweaked for 2 channel with a solid phantom center. I had to toe them in a bit, but the soundstage is still even wider than the Paradigms. The listening distance is now actually just a little over 7 feet. I left the 8 ohm default setting stay as is BTW. For most music I really don't feel that the sub is needed. I haven't ran Audyssey yet. I'll get to that today sometime. So far I'm really pleased with the volume I'm getting and haven't got the protection circuit to light up, yet. The best word to describe these speakers is "Awesome!"

Anytime I have heard Vandy speakers I have liked them.

This is a time/phase coherent design with first order 6db acoustic crossovers. The md range crosses at 600 Hz and 5 KHz. So your mid is covering most of the speech discrimination band. So speech reproductions should be very good and way better then almost all available centers. So I would avoid a center speaker.

I am going to give you different advice about the crossover. I would not cross to a sub. Those speakers have an F3 of 26 Hz. Crossing to a sub will add timing problems the designers have been at pains to avoid.
If you do use subs, I recommend that you use two if possible and place them right next to the speakers. Use the LFE plus main setting for sure. Try blending the subs in at both 60 And 40 Hz and see which gives you the best response. It will be one or the other, most likely 40 Hz, but I encourage you to experiment.

Lastly I would not be driving those speakers from a receiver. I would absolutely use a good external amp no question about that. I was going to recommend a good used Quad 909, but I see that they are now going on eBay for $2,500 to $3000.00 a pop! I guess people have finally come to see the value of these amps. So it seems I'm now sitting on at least $25,000 dollars worth of QUAD 909s. Incredible! I'm glad I did not pay anything like that for mine. However watch eBay and may be one will come up for $1000.00 or less which is a good deal.

 

[Golfx]

if you switch your SR 8012 to 4 or 6 it will greatly throttle your wattage output. Gene founder of this website recommends leaving it at 8 in his reviews. I use SR 8012 internal amps to drive my 8 ohm surrounds but use preouts for fronts and center to an Anthem MCA 325 for new added 4 ohm speakers.

 

[sls141]

Anytime I have heard Vandy speakers I have liked them.

This is a time/phase coherent design with first order 6db acoustic crossovers. The md range crosses at 600 Hz and 5 KHz. So your mid is covering most of the speech discrimination band. So speech reproductions should be very good and way better then almost all available centers. So I would avoid a center speaker.

I am going to give you different advice about the crossover. I would not cross to a sub. Those speakers have an F3 of 26 Hz. Crossing to a sub will add timing problems the designers have been at pains to avoid.
If you do use subs, I recommend that you use two if possible and place them right next to the speakers. Use the LFE plus main setting for sure. Try blending the subs in at both 60 And 40 Hz and see which gives you the best response. It will be one or the other, most likely 40 Hz, but I encourage you to experiment.

Lastly I would not be driving those speakers from a receiver. I would absolutely use a good external amp no question about that. I was going to recommend a good used Quad 909, but I see that they are now going on eBay for $2,500 to $3000.00 a pop! I guess people have finally come to see the value of these amps. So it seems I'm now sitting on at least $25,000 dollars worth of QUAD 909s. Incredible! I'm glad I did not pay anything like that for mine. However watch eBay and may be one will come up for $1000.00 or less which is a good deal.

Thanks for the advice. I just ran Audyssey and it set the Vandys as large. No surprise. It seems like a good idea to leave the sub off for 2 channel listening. Audyssey shows a big null at around 60hz and a peak at around 35hz for the Vandys at my listening position. The sub has a similar peak but no null until around 105hz.
Using the sub for 11.1 surround crossed at 60hz might be the right way to go with the Vandys. Time and experimentation will tell.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the advice. I just ran Audyssey and it set the Vandys as large. No surprise. It seems like a good idea to leave the sub off for 2 channel listening. Audyssey shows a big null at around 60hz and a peak at around 35hz for the Vandys at my listening position. The sub has a similar peak but no null until around 105hz.
Using the sub for 11.1 surround crossed at 60hz might be the right way to go with the Vandys. Time and experimentation will tell.

In my experience measuring the FR of several pairs of speakers, 80 Hz XO was the best in every case in 2.1 mode. Unfortunately, people naturally think their so called "full range" towers would sound better when set to "large", or lower XO such as 60 Hz or lower. I believe in a real double blind test they would prefer small with XO 80 Hz. Each case may be different so surely there could be exceptions, the only to know for sure, without a DBT, is to plot some curves so you can see it, instead of hearing it with eyes.

 

[sls141]

Hey, I'd just like to thank all of the members who helped me with my growing pains. To summarize the outlook, I have the impedance set at the 8 ohm default and seem to favor the crossover set at 80hz with the MultEQ XT32 setting at "Flat" and no dynamic volume or dynamic eq. My most recent tweak was to dial back the midrange adjustment all the way(around 2db) after listening to Dianna Krall's "Sway" and felt the vocal was just way too much in my face, then followed that with a 1db increase to the treble dial to round things out.(Here, I'm talking about the dials on the Vandy's crossovers.) After that adjustment, I was curious whether it would work across the board on all other types of music and TV/movies. So far I have no desire to set them back to their neutral settings.
Thanks again for all the help!

 

[PENG]

and seem to favor the crossover set at 80hz with the MultEQ XT32 setting at "Flat" and no dynamic volume or dynamic eq.

Yeah 80 Hz seems to be the best compromise regardless of how bass capable the speakers are. I suspect as good as XT32 and even Dirac Live, crossover below 60 Hz may be too much of a challenge for them to deal with in terms of minimizing the interference between deep bass capable speakers and the subwoofers, though I also suspect their are always going to be people who found good results with low crossover settings as it would naturally be dependent on the individual rooms. Just that 80 Hz tends to increase your odds for better integration. According to Audyssey, the "flat" could be better for smaller rooms, otherwise they recommend the "reference curve", from accuracy/neutrality stand point. I have tried both many times and I did find reference better for me.

 

[sls141]

I figured I'd update this for those who may be interested. With the suggestion to look into a more powerful amp or monoblocks for driving the Vandys, I found out that Marantz made some monoblocks that were affordable and intended for AV usage, namely the MA-500 and MA-700(rated at 125W and 200W respectively). There are plenty of MA-500s on ebay but only occasionally do you see MA-700s listed. So I saved a MA-700 search and would see them listed for over $300 plus shipping every now and then. One evening while checking my emails, I saw a new listing where a guy had 3 of them and wanting $235 a piece with free shipping. The guy had a good seller rating and the pictures of the amps were on a shelf above some Mark Levinson gear on the shelf below. So I decided to grab 2 of them. With the sales tax it came to just under $500.

When I received them I fired them up and after a little playing around with the levels I was quite happy with what I was hearing. With the SR8012 driving the Vandys, the sound wouldn't really open up until some decent power was feeding them. With the MA-700s doing the job, moderate levels would open up the sound nicely.

Being a little worried about the age of the MA-700s, I had a friend of my brothers take them to a retired electrical engineer/MIT graduate for a "check under the hood." When I got them back I was told that nothing needed to be replaced and that the bias needed adjusting. Each amp had a note taped to the top, see photo.

The numbers 0130 and 0017 are the last 4 digits of the serial#s. What I think I'm reading here is..
Vout = 43V = 231 watts@.021%THD
Vout = 43 = 231 watts@.014%THD

I'm assuming that is into an 8ohm load as I never talked to the engineer directly.
BTW, his fee was $100. So that puts me at $300 per amp and I can't complain. The Outlaw 2220s go for $400 each new, so again, I can't complain.