Need Advice between Denon and Yamaha

[AVUser001]

I was speaking of their AVR’s I had their 3600 back in 2011 very nice unit clean output. But HDMI issues came up. What did I go with after my Harman Kardon crapped out? a Onkyo NR818 which lasted 18 months and bam! HDMI went out got the Dreaded black screen! Yeah Onkyo fixed it even sent me a box shipping label. Got it back all good for a few months than it started acting up again so I sold it off.

Got ya..

 

[PENG]

The decision is Never easy because there are so many factors.

As dealers of both Denon/Marantz and Yamaha, we could easily buy any of these brands for ourselves, family, and friends at lower cost. So for dealers, it’s not about the money.

And you’re right about theories and lab results vs real life use - it’s usually not that demanding in real life.

For example - the All Channels Driven Test vs. real life use where we never encounter just a scenario.

And the Pre-out voltage case where in real life most people will probably never need more than even 1.9V.

And the THD case where in real life we won’t hear THD of 0.1%, so why do we care if THD is 0.1% vs 0.0001%?

Same goes for SNR and other specs.

So what do we really care about in the REAL LIFE?

Cost? WiFi dropouts? Apps? Features you actually want? Is one truly more reliable than the other? Is Audyssey truly better than YPAO to your ears?

Would the same people still buy Denon is the cost is the same as Yamaha?

Why even pay $850 (on sale) for a Yamaha RX-A1080 when you can buy a comparable Denon X3500 for $599? Why pay $1200 (not on sale) for the RX-A1080?

Great practical points especially about the pre-outs. We all know Gene recommended 2.0 V unclipped is a good minimum to have, but for most people even 1.5 Vrms is plenty, enough for those using the popular Monolith and Emo amps rated 200 W anyway, and still have adequate headroom. Good to have is not the same as must have. I was impressed with Yamaha's pre out performance based on ASR measurements on the 1080 (yes a little low..) and the little WXA50, making me want a WX-C50 but I have 3 Oppo and a bunch of ext. DAC so it is just on my "want" list for now.

 

[PENG]

I 2nd that...
As an industry insider & CEDIA installer we have access to the major brands and factory sources @ highly discounted prices... But when doing an install, we almost always use Yamaha audio/video products because of their reliability.... And since our primary office is located very close to 1 of the independent audio warranty centers, we know the owner well and frequently discuss the subject for various brands and their respective reliability. I think Yamaha has better brand image and reliability because of:

• Tech support based in the USA
• Yamaha has reasonable stock of replacement parts for later models if needed
• Yamaha has their own design teams
• Yamaha has their own factories
• Yamaha products do have the HDMI/HDCP certifications

In closing...
I agree certain other brands may have impressive pricing, features and/or specs but when running my AV install biz having to go back out and troubleshoot, repair and replace a previously installed component of another brand besides Yamaha is simply too expensive... Note that rarely we have had defective Yamaha products, but since we are located in SoCal we have direct access to Yamaha to find their best expedient solution...

Just my $0.02...

Agreed, except they may also be the first (or was it NAD?) who tried to tell people that less, something like 55 W X5, 65X2 ACD (5-7 in those days) rated was better than D,M,O, I, and Y's more, such as 100 WX2, but down to 60-70 W ACD. The numbers I am using are just examples. Reality is that virtually all available bench test measurements showed theirs, e.g. AVR-225 through AVR-635 couldn't compete with D&M O&I and some Y counterparts even in output into 4 ohms.. That, however, was just about the only thing I did not like about them as I considered it a negative. The ACD myth they managed to, perhaps unintentionally, spread and successfully planted in many people's mind is a negative imo. Even now, some audiophiles and hearsay followers are still suffering from the effects due to the hearsay/misconception created by those talks (jokingly speaking so please don't attack).

I was disappointed when they gave up on those AVR lines and I wish they would have at least continued with their fantastic 2 channel models such as the HK3490.

 

[CajunLB]

Agreed, except they may also be the first (or was it NAD?) who tried to tell people that less, something like 55 W X5, 65X2 ACD (5-7 in those days) rated was better than D,M,O, I, and Y's more, such as 100 WX2, but down to 60-70 W ACD. The numbers I am using are just examples. Reality is that virtually all available bench test measurements showed theirs, e.g. AVR-225 through AVR-635 couldn't compete with D&M O&I and some Y counterparts even in output into 4 ohms.. That, however, was just about the only thing I did not like about them as I considered it a negative. The ACD myth they managed to, perhaps unintentionally, spread and successfully planted in many people's mind is a negative imo. Even now, some audiophiles and hearsay followers are still suffering from the effects due to the hearsay/misconception created by those talks (jokingly speaking so please don't attack).

I was disappointed when they gave up on those AVR lines and I wish they would have at least continued with their fantastic 2 channel models such as the HK3490.

@PENG do you mind if I PM you. Are if you give your opinion on the last comment I made on the New Denon avr-X3600H thread I would appreciate it.

 

[PENG]

@PENG do you mind if I PM you. Are if you give your opinion on the last comment I made on the New Denon avr-X3600H thread I would appreciate it.

Of course, if you prefer..

 

[David Harper]

recently replaced a Denon AVR-X 1100 W with a Yamaha Aventage RX-A 780. Both AVR's performed nicely. The Denon started having some issues when it was about eight years old. The front display went out and then it stopped recognizing my IPOD. And a few other glitches. I decided I wanted to try Yammy. I've had the Yammy about one year and so far it's been perfect. In a previous post here someone said the Denon is more stable into 4 ohms. Not necessarily true. Just because Denon says so doesn't make it true. I've driven maggie LRS speakers (4 ohms) with the new Yammy and it did just fine. Also the Denon used to get warmer than the Yammy with my usual listening. The new Aventage line may be superior to the current Denon line.

 

[lovinthehd]

How did you get the Denon 1100 8 years ago? They're about 5 years old....Yamaha's avrs generally have been fine with 4 ohms, even though they generally don't rate for it (like Denon usually doesn't).

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi everyone,
Happy New year to all.
After hours of reading, viewing on youtube on the AV domain, I'm still struggling to decide which "environnement" to lean towards to...

I currently have a 2011 AV receiver (Pioneer VSX 921), 5.1 (Focal chorus 726, sub 700, Q acoustics for central and surround). Still working properly but no longer up to date and surely not on par with my brand new LG C9 4K/oled TV 55.
I realize how dynamic is the area of AV creating so many new sounds type (Atmos, Dolby Vision, etc), products, etc.

One thing I understood from Geene is that the more they cranck new logos (Dolby, etc), the more they have to cut down on power, and other features

so after many research I got convinced to invest more money that expected and go towards either a Denon 3600 or Yamaha Avantage RX 880 or 1080. but I still hesitate very much.

So to help with that I tried to take some decision criteria to my profile.
I really see that Denon seems to have a hit with their 3600, but I'm trying to find the right fit for me (I don't have the greatest hears to be honest but do love great sounds), but I've very tech oriented, home automation addict and I'm really looking for a connected, Alexa, Siri, type of gear that is going to have a very good sound but also, be stable and reliable on Airplay wireless connection (right now with my pioneer I keep on having disconnect all the time and that drives me crazy!).

So to try to anticipate what you get with these two worlds, I downloaded both IOS apps from Denon and Yamaha. feed back is Yamaha is snap, clear, good looking; Whereas looking at Denon instruction manual they start to ask you to get the “Denon 2016 AVR Remote” (yes in 2020 they even kept "2016" in the name of their app - nota good sign as starter). Denon's app (in demo mode though) crashed after few minutes only (when the Yamaha one worked seamlessly). Denon UI was not clean with overlapping writings.
Looking at buyers comments for both receiver on Amazon (very good exercise when you want to get the real feedback vs the fancy Cie website -denon one is beautiful for instance). you see many bad experience for the Denon one (eg : no sound, settings issue, etc ) when nothing of that sort is reported for the Yamaha.
in addition the musicast app seems great, + the wireless surround speaker option ( but I can still go wire, as I have some speakers already...so not a major point).

So in conclusion, I'm under the impression that the Denon might be better from a hardware standpoint, sound quality standpoint and bang for the buck, but might lack the stability, clean up to date software that the Yamaha has invested in.

of course, as a photo enthusiast I'm aware that some times this sort of debate is though as for instance you would never convince a Nikon fan to move to Canon and vice versa lol.
Sorry that was long, but I wonder what to do you guys think or have experience in terms of convienience of use in every day life to operate these 2 great receivers ?

Thanks in advance for your input

As far as reliable wifi....don't think thats particularly an avr issue IME but I have a shitty ISP/internet service to begin with.

I went from a Pioneer 919 to Audyssey XT equipped Onkyo which I thought was an improvement, particularly for subs. I like my Denon with XT32 even better (4520). Generally I say pick an avr for the features/connectivity and amp section that suits your purposes.

The Denon remote app I didn't like, I used a generic that worked better but generally just don't use my phone for remote control, most of that is my Harmony universal remote if not the original Denon (for setup purposes or deep diving for settings). The look of the gui on screen (or on an app) means little to me, too.

 

[David Harper]

How did you get the Denon 1100 8 years ago? They're about 5 years old....Yamaha's avrs generally have been fine with 4 ohms, even though they generally don't rate for it (like Denon usually doesn't).

you're probably right it seemed like about 8 but maybe it was 5.