Nearly 12 years since I posted on here. On the market for a refurbished or used receiver.

[lovinthehd]

You want my advice? Try to have the Onkyo repaired. I'm going to do the same with my 2007-era TX-SR605.

I'm in a similar situation, OP, in that I recently bought a Denon X2800 to replace this Onkyo (after it exhibited a steadily-malfunctioning HDMI out, or so I think) and feel like we are not using the capabilities of this seven-channel Atmos AVR. Cost us nearly 1K (via Amazon; no sale prices anywhere else at the time) and I feel like we just don't need its technical prowess, given the fact that we're running a 5.1 system and are totally fine with it.

FWIW a lot depends how you want the avr to interface with video (or even audio from tv apps)....older avrs are fine for the most part with audio only for a 5.1 setup, tho.

Using all the capabilities of an avr is hard, they generally have so many options (which can be useful when you change things up). Not something I've ever worried about.

Good luck on older unit repairs, particularly if a board is needed.

 

[John Lohmann]

FWIW a lot depends how you want the avr to interface with video (or even audio from tv apps)....older avrs are fine for the most part with audio only for a 5.1 setup, tho.

For us, because we're not going beyond 5.1 for the foreseeable future, older AVRs like my TX-SR605 are absolutely fine. They decode all lossy legacy versions of Dolby and DTS, as well as lossless varities of TrueHD and Master Audio. I don't know if I thoroughly read the OP's needs in terms of speaker support; if he's interested in anything beyond 5.1 into the spatial world, then, no, an older model wouldn't work.

Using all the capabilities of an avr is hard, they generally have so many options (which can be useful when you change things up). Not something I've ever worried about.

I don't know what it is about the whole "this thing is loaded down with features" angle that I just can't stand about these units; I realize, of course, that you can't use every single feature an AVR offers (well, in most consumer level scenarios) but for a shopper like ME, who isn't interested in the spatial formats just yet, it seems like these devices are passionately overkill.

Sure, manufacturers like Denon and Onkyo (not so much Marantz and other more esoteric brands) offer stripped-down basic 5.1 or 5.2 models still, but they're horribly chintzy and just scream cheap (I mean no disrespect to anyone who can only afford such models, at all); even my contact at Denon recommended against ever considering the lowest "S" series AVR from their lineup for a myriad of reasons. The problem is, while these models offer the functionality people like me want for a simple setup, they don't have the power, build quality or reliability (in most cases) some of us also want. A good example: I have a simple 5.1 setup with some massive Polk RTi12 towers as the left and right mains, and these things can take 500 watts RMS each -- in reality, I need a flagship level AVR at the very least to power these things at what everyone calls "proper levels" (even though my Onkyo 605, at 90 WPC, was doing just fine on them) or a massive power amp (or two), but I can't afford such AVR models and the rest of the features would be completely wasted on us (11-plus-channel support, multi-zone amplification, etc.).

It's a VERY bad spot to be in.

Good luck on older unit repairs, particularly if a board is needed.

Well, as I mentioned, the shop quoted me $140 to look at the Onkyo -- they would tell me, from there, what it needed for a complete repair, so I didn't necessarily have to go through with it if it was going to be ridiculously expensive. The factory reset may help, though I doubt it, so I can try that first.

All I need from the unit's HDMI out is to see the setup menu from time to time, just to make sure settings are correct -- this unit can't pass 4K video, so I'm not using it for video passthrough. I am also considering a component-to-HDMI converter to bypass the HDMI out port, but I'm not sure how this works exactly...

 

[lovinthehd]

For us, because we're not going beyond 5.1 for the foreseeable future, older AVRs like my TX-SR605 are absolutely fine. They decode all lossy legacy versions of Dolby and DTS, as well as lossless varities of TrueHD and Master Audio. I don't know if I thoroughly read the OP's needs in terms of speaker support; if he's interested in anything beyond 5.1 into the spatial world, then, no, an older model wouldn't work.

Yes, and you do not need even hdmi usually for such either (depending on source options) as even coax/optical will be fine for 5.1. I have one older pre-hdmi avr that's just fine for how I'm using it. My other avrs have a range of hdmi versions but as my video needs are still just 1080p, they work fine. OTOH my newest avr has features for 4k/Atmos I won't be using in the foreseeable future.

I don't know what it is about the whole "this thing is loaded down with features" angle that I just can't stand about these units; I realize, of course, that you can't use every single feature an AVR offers (well, in most consumer level scenarios) but for a shopper like ME, who isn't interested in the spatial formats just yet, it seems like these devices are passionately overkill.

Sure, manufacturers like Denon and Onkyo (not so much Marantz and other more esoteric brands) offer stripped-down basic 5.1 or 5.2 models still, but they're horribly chintzy and just scream cheap (I mean no disrespect to anyone who can only afford such models, at all); even my contact at Denon recommended against ever considering the lowest "S" series AVR from their lineup for a myriad of reasons. The problem is, while these models offer the functionality people like me want for a simple setup, they don't have the power, build quality or reliability (in most cases) some of us also want. A good example: I have a simple 5.1 setup with some massive Polk RTi12 towers as the left and right mains, and these things can take 500 watts RMS each -- in reality, I need a flagship level AVR at the very least to power these things at what everyone calls "proper levels" (even though my Onkyo 605, at 90 WPC, was doing just fine on them) or a massive power amp (or two), but I can't afford such AVR models and the rest of the features would be completely wasted on us (11-plus-channel support, multi-zone amplification, etc.).

Economies of scale make it more effective to put as much as current tech possible in one box rather than try and aim at various specific use scenarios. The industry has definitely moved past a basic 5.1 avr with older feature sets. Same for legacy connections, those are going by the wayside more and more. I do wish even the lower tier avrs would have a full set of pre-outs so you can have amp flexibility as needed. They're consumer electronics made en masse, so materials and build quality will be on the lighter side at the lower end of the range. OTOH even 75wpc is fine for a large portion of users.

 

[Mike Up]

It's all what you want for video. I have a Denon AVR-2312ci that I was using for my 3D 1080p TV 5.1 system.

I got rid of the AVR-2312ci from my 4K main 7.1 system because I disliked the inconvenience of needing to switch everything through the TV's own HDMI inputs (to use 4K), then send the TV's Optical output for DD 5.1 to my AVR-2312ci.

I did buy a Sony X700 UHD Bluray player that had a separate audio only HDMI just to go to the receiver so it wouldn't downmix my 4K video signals to 1080P. So the only way I got better than the standard DD 5.1, was to use the X700 Bluray player. It had terrible streaming app offerings and it just can't replace a Roku or Chromecast w/Google Tv streamer.

I hated using the TV as a video switch and audio feed as I couldn't monitor anything from the Denon as I was 12' away and it had a very thorough display screen and still couldn't read it. Even then, many things were only available on the on-screen display.

I finally updated my receiver to a Denon AVR-S960H and what a difference. Now I had discrete 7.1 channels from Atmos from the video streamers and even when Atmos wasn't available, I got DD+ 7.1 on some movies. Big improvement over DD 5.1! I bought that Denon AVR-S960H back in '22 for $600 even from Amazon. if it weren't for a stupid Nintendo Switch Dock design that makes static popping noise on receiver turn on, I would still be using the Denon AVR-S960H on my main system.

Since I thought the problem was the receiver, I sent it in. Found out after, through a couple other receivers, it wasn't the receiver. However Denon warranty repair tech had an attitude and wouldn't even discuss the issue before I even sent it in. So it went in, to later find out, it wasn't the problem. He said he replaced some power supply diodes but who knows. I got it back and it works flawlessly with some new minor scratches from the professional and careful repairman . Luckily they are on the rear side where they can't be seen. This repairman also does warranty repairs on Yamaha and Onkyo, and others.

Anyhow, I did get another receiver as prices on receivers on Amazon where crazy cheap even before Amazon day. I tried an Onkyo receiver I didn't care for, so returned and found that Amazon themselves again, were selling the AVR-X2800H for $679 on Amazon day. I jumped on that deal as I was only finding it previously at around 1K cheapest from an authorized retailer. So I now have the AVR-X2800H in my main living room and the AVR-S960H in the Media room 5.1 system (although I may be able to expand to 5.1.2 with Atmos Front Height speakers ). Denon can thank that warranty repairman for a repair that wasn't needed with his lack of caring to speak to the customer ahead of time, then to the purchase of a AVR-X2800H due to the expectation that repairman wouldn't send the AVR-S960H back in one piece within the same year! He refused to tell me when he would be finished and sending it back. Delivery just appeared one day on my front porch, on a "RAINY DAY". Luckily I was there to take it!

Sorry for the Rant, but I guess I feel I still came out ahead with such a good deal on the X2800h.

Point of the post is, don't think a dedicated home theater receiver is going to work the best when you don't use it as the main video switcher. if you plan on using 4K or 8K video, get a new receiver! Also pay an inexpensive price so that if you want to upgrade to the latest video format, you can afford to do it without regretting the price you paid on the current receiver. One of the reasons, I don't want to pay over $1000 on a receiver.

If you like Onkyo, the TX-NR6100 is still really cheap on Amazon but it has no pre-amp outputs. Also it's been said at ASR that Zone 2 preamp outputs on all makes, aren't the highest quality as the main zone is. Some said inferior DACs.

If you want to use external amps as you said, the Onkyo TX-RZ50 was right at $1,000 from Amazon themselves. BUT beware, Onkyo now forces (with a 7.1 speaker setup, using a 5.1 signal output) the surround channels to play out of the back surround speakers, and the leave the surround speakers silent. This is by design that only Onkyo themselves know why, but I couldn't live with it.

Also a better option maybe, as I have never used this receiver, the Yamaha RX-A4A seems very high end and has preamp outputs, 110 watts/channel and is a 7.1 channel receiver. It's MSRP is $1299 but you may find it cheaper. Being this is a lower price MSRP for what Yamaha is claiming with this receiver, I have never seen it's price go much below MSRP.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[John Lohmann]

Yes, and you do not need even hdmi usually for such either (depending on source options) as even coax/optical will be fine for 5.1. I have one older pre-hdmi avr that's just fine for how I'm using it. My other avrs have a range of hdmi versions but as my video needs are still just 1080p, they work fine. OTOH my newest avr has features for 4k/Atmos I won't be using in the foreseeable future.

I do need an AVR with HDMI so it could accept bitstreamed signals from a player for TrueHD and Master Audio.

Economies of scale make it more effective to put as much as current tech possible in one box rather than try and aim at various specific use scenarios. The industry has definitely moved past a basic 5.1 avr with older feature sets. Same for legacy connections, those are going by the wayside more and more. I do wish even the lower tier avrs would have a full set of pre-outs so you can have amp flexibility as needed. They're consumer electronics made en masse, so materials and build quality will be on the lighter side at the lower end of the range. OTOH even 75wpc is fine for a large portion of users.

I never understood why the lower-tiered models don't offer preouts....those are the models that could benefit from the extra power the most.

 

[John Lohmann]

It's all what you want for video. I have a Denon AVR-2312ci that I was using for my 3D 1080p TV 5.1 system.

I got rid of the AVR-2312ci from my 4K main 7.1 system because I disliked the inconvenience of needing to switch everything through the TV's own HDMI inputs (to use 4K), then send the TV's Optical output for DD 5.1 to my AVR-2312ci.

I did buy a Sony X700 UHD Bluray player that had a separate audio only HDMI just to go to the receiver so it wouldn't downmix my 4K video signals to 1080P. So the only way I got better than the standard DD 5.1, was to use the X700 Bluray player. It had terrible streaming app offerings and it just can't replace a Roku or Chromecast w/Google Tv streamer.

I hated using the TV as a video switch and audio feed as I couldn't monitor anything from the Denon as I was 12' away and it had a very thorough display screen and still couldn't read it. Even then, many things were only available on the on-screen display.

I finally updated my receiver to a Denon AVR-S960H and what a difference. Now I had discrete 7.1 channels from Atmos from the video streamers and even when Atmos wasn't available, I got DD+ 7.1 on some movies. Big improvement over DD 5.1! I bought that Denon AVR-S960H back in '22 for $600 even from Amazon. if it weren't for a stupid Nintendo Switch Dock design that makes static popping noise on receiver turn on, I would still be using the Denon AVR-S960H on my main system.

Since I thought the problem was the receiver, I sent it in. Found out after, through a couple other receivers, it wasn't the receiver. However Denon warranty repair tech had an attitude and wouldn't even discuss the issue before I even sent it in. So it went in, to later find out, it wasn't the problem. He said he replaced some power supply diodes but who knows. I got it back and it works flawlessly with some new minor scratches from the professional and careful repairman . Luckily they are on the rear side where they can't be seen. This repairman also does warranty repairs on Yamaha and Onkyo, and others.

Anyhow, I did get another receiver as prices on receivers on Amazon where crazy cheap even before Amazon day. I tried an Onkyo receiver I didn't care for, so returned and found that Amazon themselves again, were selling the AVR-X2800H for $679 on Amazon day. I jumped on that deal as I was only finding it previously at around 1K cheapest from an authorized retailer. So I now have the AVR-X2800H in my main living room and the AVR-S960H in the Media room 5.1 system (although I may be able to expand to 5.1.2 with Atmos Front Height speakers ). Denon can thank that warranty repairman for a repair that wasn't needed with his lack of caring to speak to the customer ahead of time, then to the purchase of a AVR-X2800H due to the expectation that repairman wouldn't send the AVR-S960H back in one piece within the same year! He refused to tell me when he would be finished and sending it back. Delivery just appeared one day on my front porch, on a "RAINY DAY". Luckily I was there to take it!

Sorry for the Rant, but I guess I feel I still came out ahead with such a good deal on the X2800h.

Point of the post is, don't think a dedicated home theater receiver is going to work the best when you don't use it as the main video switcher. if you plan on using 4K or 8K video, get a new receiver! Also pay an inexpensive price so that if you want to upgrade to the latest video format, you can afford to do it without regretting the price you paid on the current receiver. One of the reasons, I don't want to pay over $1000 on a receiver.

If you like Onkyo, the TX-NR6100 is still really cheap on Amazon but it has no pre-amp outputs. Also it's been said at ASR that Zone 2 preamp outputs on all makes, aren't the highest quality as the main zone is. Some said inferior DACs.

If you want to use external amps as you said, the Onkyo TX-RZ50 was right at $1,000 from Amazon themselves. BUT beware, Onkyo now forces (with a 7.1 speaker setup, using a 5.1 signal output) the surround channels to play out of the back surround speakers, and the leave the surround speakers silent. This is by design that only Onkyo themselves know why, but I couldn't live with it.

Also a better option maybe, as I have never used this receiver, the Yamaha RX-A4A seems very high end and has preamp outputs, 110 watts/channel and is a 7.1 channel receiver. It's MSRP is $1299 but you may find it cheaper. Being this is a lower price MSRP for what Yamaha is claiming with this receiver, I have never seen it's price go much below MSRP.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

I was a diehard Onkyo fan until they decided to strip their AVRs of certain features -- mainly the front displays that don't show the sound mode in use alongside the input name (a deal breaker for me) and the IntelliVolume input level control system, which we discussed in the other thread.

 

[lovinthehd]

I never understood why the lower-tiered models don't offer preouts....those are the models that could benefit from the extra power the most.

I always assumed they started perceived it as something valuable and restricted it accordingly to upper tier models. Partly would think many simply never add amps.

 

[John Lohmann]

I always assumed they started perceived it as something valuable and restricted it accordingly to upper tier models. Partly would think many simply never add amps.

That's most likely what it is....

 

[Cobratron]

The other option I have is to buy the same 709 model I have now but used and just hope it last. Thoughts on this? I definitely cannot buy a 1k unit and so far no luck on buying an used amp with preouts.

 

[John Lohmann]

I wouldn't recommend buying a 1K model if you COULD afford it....

 

[lovinthehd]

The other option I have is to buy the same 709 model I have now but used and just hope it last. Thoughts on this? I definitely cannot buy a 1k unit and so far no luck on buying an used amp with preouts.

Depending where you live you might find something newer for a good price on craigslist, maybe facebook marketplace, etc or even classifieds on this and other audio sites.

 

[John Lohmann]

The other option I have is to buy the same 709 model I have now but used and just hope it last. Thoughts on this? I definitely cannot buy a 1k unit and so far no luck on buying an used amp with preouts.

Want my Denon 2800?

 

[Cobratron]

Depending where you live you might find something newer for a good price on craigslist, maybe facebook marketplace, etc or even classifieds on this and other audio sites.

Thanks didn't know this site had a classifieds section!

 

[Cobratron]

I wouldn't recommend buying a 1K model if you COULD afford it....

I just want to be able to use my Emotiva XPA-5! Will your Denon work?

 

[John Lohmann]

I just want to be able to use my Emotiva XPA-5! Will your Denon work?

Unfortunately, no because there aren't preouts -- BUT, you could get some speaker-to-line level converters and it will do the same thing. It's what I plan to do if I ever add an amp, because none of the AVRs I'd ever buy would come with preouts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks didn't know this site had a classifieds section!

Another good one to check for classifieds might be avsforum.com.

 

[Mike Up]

I was a diehard Onkyo fan until they decided to strip their AVRs of certain features -- mainly the front displays that don't show the sound mode in use alongside the input name (a deal breaker for me) and the IntelliVolume input level control system, which we discussed in the other thread.

As was pointed out by Trebdp83 on the other thread, you have more settings through the network app. The intellivolume is there under another name. It's only available through the network app settings as individual input volume settings. it's not available through the on-screen settings. This was on the RZ70, but I seem to remember it being on the TX-NR6050 as well. You could check to verify for each model.

 

[Eppie]

I just want to be able to use my Emotiva XPA-5! Will your Denon work?

What about the X3500H for $500 I linked to on USAudioMart? You don't pay through the site so you can make an offer below the asking price. Which coast are you on? Shipping from Texas might be costly but you can go on-line for estimates or ask the seller to price shipping.

There is also a newer Onkyo TX-RZ50 for $795 in NJ.
Also a Marantz SR5015 for $750, again in TX.

I don't think you're going to find anything with a full set of pre-outs for less than $500 unless it is an outdated analogue unit.

 

[John Lohmann]

As was pointed out by Trebdp83 on the other thread, you have more settings through the network app. The intellivolume is there under another name. It's only available through the network app settings as individual input volume settings. it's not available through the on-screen settings. This was on the RZ70, but I seem to remember it being on the TX-NR6050 as well. You could check to verify for each model.

The feature you're referring to is called MY INPUT VOLUME, and it does NOT function the same way as IntelliVolume.

 

[Mike Up]

Sorry, the founder of this forum stated in a youtube review of the RZ70 that it was a setting to compensate for one source being louder than the other. Here at 12 min. 16 sec. He's a good guy and everyone makes mistakes.