Narrowed choices down to 3 a/v receivers

[landonspop]

Budget $1500.

Need to choose between Sony STR-DA4300ES , Denon 3808 and Onkyo SR875. It has been 10 years since I purchased my last amp, so I have been out of the market until now, my last one being a Sony ES model and I had no problems. I owned 2 Onkyos before that without problems. In fact, all are still working.

I was leaning towards the Sony because of GUI.

What I have read so far.

Onkyo... best bang for buck but get very hot.. cheaper when comparing apples to apples, but I am worried about "where did they cut their costs to do so"? Rated THX Ultra II, but I have heard that others would qualify also, but chose not to pay licensing fees to advertise this. Is this true?

Sony.. Rated best at cnet... have read that people do not like their sound.. have 6 hdmi inputs, but do not know how I might need so many

Denon....
very light (?) could this be an issue? , confusing remote, but supposed to have better sound of the three...

I love music, but do not brag to have professional ears... I suppose I could hear the difference if all were set up to compare, but is there really that much difference when using the same speakers and eq settings?

I am a newby compared to many here. I have owned many amps, but have never spent over $1000 before.

Please help with non-biased answers.


RC

Speakers:
sub..Supercube I
rear.. definitive tech
front.. Eosone towers w/ powered woofers
center.. paradigm

 

[bandphan]

you mentioned yama in the thread also, what about he elite 94? Between the first three choices, i like the onkyo, and since your mains have powered woofers, i dont think heat will be an issue, as to that is my main compliant with the onks.

 

[landonspop]

you mentioned yama in the thread also, what about he elite 94? Between the first three choices, i like the onkyo, and since your mains have powered woofers, i dont think heat will be an issue, as to that is my main compliant with the onks.

Not yama... meant Denon

Elite.. I have heard you get the least for the money here, plus have to pay full retail, where I can get discount on others

 

[bandphan]

Not yama... meant Denon

Elite.. I have heard you get the least for the money here, plus have to pay full retail, where I can get discount on others

not true about retail, and explian least for your money

 

[landonspop]

not true about retail, and explian least for your money

The shop I visited told me they could not sell PE for less than MSRP. They would throw in a couple of cables. They told me that you are paying a lot for the name Elite and get less for the same money.

 

[PENG]

The 3808 weighs 37 to 38 lbs, not that light, most likely heavier than the Sony.

The Sony ES models, even the latest ones, do not sound as bad as people around say they are. For whatever reasons, they are not well like around here but they don't seem to have this problem outside the U.S
.
The Onkyo 875 costs much more than the 805 that weights the same, if that matters to you. The 805 still gets you more power than the Denon and the Sony.

If you worry about reliability, the Denon 380X are known quantities, so it is the choice if peace of mind is important to you. If you need the 6 HDMI, take the Sony and don't worry about it if people laughs at your decision. You should negotiate hard though because it seems overpriced compare to the Onkyo. The Sony will sound just fine with your speakers. For best value for the money, take a chance on the Onkyo 805.

 

[bandphan]

The shop I visited told me they could not sell PE for less than MSRP. They would throw in a couple of cables. They told me that you are paying a lot for the name Elite and get less for the same money.

thats their way of brand exclusivity, i have gotten up to 20% off on elite products. The reason for the elite name is beacuse of upgraded features and benefits. As for the shop, its all a matter of who is taking care of you, their personal preferences, inventory ect.. the elite is a strong unit. Out of your suggestions i choose the onk, but dont let a poor salesperson dup you into a false statement( i like honda accords, but would rather have an acura tl), if he will throw in a few cables that throws up red flags to me. Good luck your choices are fine.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Onkyo... best bang for buck but get very hot.. cheaper when comparing apples to apples, but I am worried about "where did they cut their costs to do so"?

There is a good reason why the Onkyo 875 gets so hot---it actually produces a lot more watts than all the other receivers!!!

Onkyo TX-SR875
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW)

Denon AVR-4308CI
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 171/280 W (22.3/24.5 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 126 W (21 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 111 W (20.5 dBW)

Pioneer VSX-94TXH
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 178/300 W (22.5/24.8 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 84 W* (19.2 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 61 W* (17.9 dBW)

Yamaha RX-V1800
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 158/281 W (22/24.5 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 103 W (20.1 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 55 W (17.4 dBW)

Sony STR-DA5200ES
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 169/244 watts (22.3/23.9 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 66 watts (18.2 dBW)
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 66 watts (18.2 dBW)

Sunfire Theater Grand 3
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 252/377 watts (24.0/25.8 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 165 watts (22.2 dBW)
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 161 watts (22.1 dBW)

Onkyo TX-NR1000
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 211/356 watts (23.2/25.5 dBW)
2 channels driven: 190/313 watts (22.8/24.9 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 133 watts (21.3 dBW)

Denon AVR-5805
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 205/344 watts (23.1/25.4 dBW)
2 channels driven: 185/310 watts (22.7/24.9 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 121 watts (20.8 dBW)

Harman Kardon AVR 7300
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 202/343 watts (23.1/25.3 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 145 watts (21.6 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 139 watts (21.4 dBW)

 

[landonspop]

The 3808 weighs 37 to 38 lbs, not that light, most likely heavier than the Sony.

The Sony ES models, even the latest ones, do not sound as bad as people around say they are. For whatever reasons, they are not well like around here but they don't seem to have this problem outside the U.S
.
The Onkyo 875 costs much more than the 805 that weights the same, if that matters to you. The 805 still gets you more power than the Denon and the Sony.

If you worry about reliability, the Denon 380X are known quantities, so it is the choice if peace of mind is important to you. If you need the 6 HDMI, take the Sony and don't worry about it if people laughs at your decision. You should negotiate hard though because it seems overpriced compare to the Onkyo. The Sony will sound just fine with your speakers. For best value for the money, take a chance on the Onkyo 805.

I can't think of how I could use 6 hdmi ins. I plan on using 3 right off the bat, so I want to have at least 1 more available. You are right about the Sony negativity. I do not know if it is related to the company or their products. I am getting the best discount on the Sony.

I try to buy an AV Rec to last 10 years. I wish their was an article to read explaining all of the options, inputs, outputs available in the market, so I could make a list of what I need now and what I might need in future. I think I know most of them, but I am sure i am missing some.

Even websites with comparison features only compare the obvious.

I have wireless internet, which receivers would benefit from this? Music, downloading updates, etc.

bluetooth?
Wifi?
Usb inputs?

The only problem I have with the Onkyos, is wondering how they can sell so cheap, including the fact that they are paying for THX labeling. Some say this is $200.00 alone. They have to be cutting corners somewhere. Most companies need the same margins and even if they didn't, others would have to lower their prices if they thought the Onkyo was offering more or equal quality for less than they were.

Most people would not pay more for a Mercedes if it were no better than a Honda.

 

[bandphan]

i understand about onks power, doesnt mean they cant deal with it, i think my mac puts out alot more power and doesnt run hot in realative terms. The heat can be an issue with placement

"Most people would not pay more for a Mercedes if it were no better than a Honda"
correct sir my point was the acura is a "name" and there is a reason your paying for it(since the two cars share the same platform)

 

[landonspop]

i under stand about onks power, doesnt mean they cant deal with it, i think my mac puts out alot more power and doesnt run hot in realative terms. The heat can be an issue with placement

"Most people would not pay more for a Mercedes if it were no better than a Honda"
correct sir my point was the acura is a "name" and there is a reason your paying for it(since the two cars share the same platform)

I'm asuming that the P Elite, the Sony 5300, Denon 3808, and Onkyo 875 are all decent receivers, and unless you are paying for name, should be equal. They are all retail priced simularly.

I wish I knew the real differences in lamens terms.

I am not opposed to any of these.

I am not even worried about $100 here or there, if I get my monies worth.

I want the one that has the best features for now and in the future. My tv doesn't have HDMI inputs, but it is only 4 years old (Mits Diamond Series 65 RP) and when I do replace it in a year or two I do not want the expense of needing another amp at the same time.

 

[20Glove]

Have the 3808

I have the 3808 and love it. I call it my hybrid system: Great sounding Stereo music, GREAT SACD/DVD Audio, but on the ok side for movies. I love this system but my only wish is that it pushed the center a bit more. I have had it professionally calibrated and the center channel is a bit quite for my taste. I have told him about that and he has adjusted it but still a bit quite. Overall though the sound is fantastic with action scenes you feel you are right there on the battlefield, falling through the ice in Batman Begins, or right in the Casino during the TV show Las Vegas. Sound is very even... one wish... and this is just to my ear... I wish the center was pushed a bit more.

 

[PENG]

Sony.. Rated best at cnet... have read that people do not like their sound.. have 6 hdmi inputs, but do not know how I might need so many

I know you sort of said you didn't need 6 inputs, but the 4300ES has only 3, it is the 5300ES that has 6.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/108sony4300/

 

[Sesquipedalian]

When I went out with a frien a few years or so back the Denon 3805 was considered very good. We compared it to a comparable Pioneer Elite switching back and forth through the same speakers. The Pioneer Elite was very direct sound and the Denon produced a wider sound field. I realize things have changed since then but you can hear differences although if one is louder than another the louder will probably sound better. It is hard to have every single thing exact without many different measurements but there can be subtle differences that may appeal to different tastes. No matter what you buy there will be something with better and or more features right around the corner. The best thing is to listen to what sounds best to your ears and as long as it has what you need the one that sounds best to you should be your choice not something that is popular with others.

 

[PENG]

For those who wants to read about Sony user experience, this is the site: http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31245&forum=51&start=0&select_page_number=1

By the way, when I had my DA4ES a few years ago, they have the longest warranty. 3 years in Canada and 5 years in the U.S.

 

[bandphan]

When I went out with a frien a few years or so back the Denon 3805 was considered very good. We compared it to a comparable Pioneer Elite switching back and forth through the same speakers. The Pioneer Elite was very direct sound and the Denon produced a wider sound field. I realize things have changed since then but you can hear differences although if one is louder than another the louder will probably sound better. It is hard to have every single thing exact without many different measurements but there can be subtle differences that may appeal to different tastes. No matter what you buy there will be something with better and or more features right around the corner. The best thing is to listen to what sounds best to your ears and as long as it has what you need the one that sounds best to you should be your choice not something that is popular with others.

what elite was is it? louder does not equal better,(loud can be distorted) denon makes a great product but im not sure you have enough info to relay your expeirence as relative. Ive got no dog in this hunt, but was bringing to light other products in his budget, no more.

 

[Sesquipedalian]

As already stated it was the comparable model in price and actually we even listened to the much more expensive one with the same results. So if you don!t want to consider that relevant that is your right but it was very obvious as 3 different people in the room including the person that worked there acknowledged it. And it was not something we think we heard it was obvious. I even went to a different store with the same models and got the same results. Furthermore I went in there wanting the Elite to sound better and I tried to look for reasons why it might not have but there weren!t any. That is my and the others that were there observations. I don!t have specific model numbers now. I am not trying to promote one over the other as different peoples tastes vary. The louder is not better was taken the wrong way. If volumes were at different levels it could effect what you are hearing and I know many people that will understand the way that is being said and agree with that. This was not to make others look bad or promote my thoughts above others just commenting on my experience. I don!t know what the situation would be comparing current models.

 

[Seth=L]

There is a good reason why the Onkyo 875 gets so hot---it actually produces a lot more watts than all the other receivers!!!

Onkyo TX-SR875
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW)

Denon AVR-4308CI
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 171/280 W (22.3/24.5 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 126 W (21 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 111 W (20.5 dBW)

Pioneer VSX-94TXH
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 178/300 W (22.5/24.8 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 84 W* (19.2 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 61 W* (17.9 dBW)

Yamaha RX-V1800
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 158/281 W (22/24.5 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 103 W (20.1 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 55 W (17.4 dBW)

Sony STR-DA5200ES
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 169/244 watts (22.3/23.9 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 66 watts (18.2 dBW)
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 66 watts (18.2 dBW)

Sunfire Theater Grand 3
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 252/377 watts (24.0/25.8 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 165 watts (22.2 dBW)
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 161 watts (22.1 dBW)

Onkyo TX-NR1000
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 211/356 watts (23.2/25.5 dBW)
2 channels driven: 190/313 watts (22.8/24.9 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 133 watts (21.3 dBW)

Denon AVR-5805
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 205/344 watts (23.1/25.4 dBW)
2 channels driven: 185/310 watts (22.7/24.9 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 121 watts (20.8 dBW)

Harman Kardon AVR 7300
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 202/343 watts (23.1/25.3 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 145 watts (21.6 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 139 watts (21.4 dBW)

Wow, the TX-SR805 tested better than the TX-SR875 and the TX-SR875 is keeping up with the biggest and baddest.

Quite simply, there is no better receiver under $1000 than the TX-SR805, and it appears to be better than all the ones under $2000 as well. Truly amazing piece of equipment.

 

[PENG]

Wow, the TX-SR805 tested better than the TX-SR875 and the TX-SR875 is keeping up with the biggest and baddest.

Quite simply, there is no better receiver under $1000 than the TX-SR805, and it appears to be better than all the ones under $2000 as well. Truly amazing piece of equipment.

I agree, it is truly amazing. I would still go with the 3808. The 805 just seems too good to be real. The Denon is a known quantity and the 3808 has all the latest features that most people need. If you look at the dBW numbers posted by AcuDT, the difference among those receivers are really not significant.

 

[Seth=L]

I agree, it is truly amazing. I would still go with the 3808. The 805 just seems too good to be real. The Denon is a known quantity and the 3808 has all the latest features that most people need. If you look at the dBW numbers posted by AcuDT, the difference among those receivers are really not significant.

What's wrong with the Onkyo? They have a good track record, every bit as good as Denon. It seems to me it has a lot going for it.