Why Apple's Advice on DRM Won't Be Heeded

Kolia

Kolia

Full Audioholic
I have friends who are musicians and let me tell you that getting fan mail say things like “You rock! I just downloaded (illegally for free) your song and it’s great!” when you’re having to work 2 jobs to earn a living kinda sucks…

The main argument I’ve heard from people downloading illegally to justify their activities was that they couldn’t afford the music in the first place. They seem to think music should be free to all and reason that since the don’t have any money for a CD they don’t buy, it won’t hurt to steal it online…

That’s plain theft… Get a job and pay for your own stuff (cut on the 5$ lattees)…

DRM might not be the ideal solution, but it’s better than nothing.
 
zildjian

zildjian

Audioholic Chief
Kolia said:
I have friends who are musicians and let me tell you that getting fan mail say things like “You rock! I just downloaded (illegally for free) your song and it’s great!” when you’re having to work 2 jobs to earn a living kinda sucks…
HA! That same thing used to happen to my band in the late 90's. One guy after one of our concerts was back stage and told our lead singer "I love your new album. I downloaded it from Napster last night..." just clueless... :eek: well... thanks.....
 
Tom Andry

Tom Andry

Speaker of the House
I seem to remember back in middle school the moment that one of my friends bought an album, we all taped it. The minute I bought an album, all my friends taped it. And yet now we need DRM. I can still by a CD and burn a million copies for all my friends but we need DRM.

I may be in the minority, but when I downloaded a song/album and really liked it, I went out and bought the CD. If I had a band, I'd put a bunch of songs out on Napster (or whatever the kids are using these days) in hopes of increasing my fan base past my girlfriend and mom. Then I'd start selling albums. I don't know if that is a viable business model but it is something.

While I feel the pain of the artists in the posts above, the fact is that the downloaded music brought fans to the concert. So, while they lost the CD sale (for now) they gained a ticket sale, t-shirt sale, and whatever else the band got a cut of. I still see artists/managers/labels running around with obscene jewelry, outrageous cars, and more money than sense. While I think they deserve what they have earned, I'm not seeing the significant difference between "file sharing" and "album sharing". Sure, it is easier to share songs over the Internet but it is essentially the same thing. The music industry hasn't collapsed under the weight of it and I'm doubting it ever will.
 
supervij

supervij

Audioholic General
I've seen/read interviews with established rock bands who have said that buying their CDs don't give them a whole lot of money. Buying a CD will net that artist maybe a dime. The majority of the cash you doled out goes to the record company and the record store at which you bought it. The artist gets close to zip.

Where these artists do get their money is from selling tickets to their shows, and from selling merchandise, like posters, T-shirts, programs, stickers, stuff like that. But that's for more established artists, I guess.

For the young and struggling bands/artists, if they don't see a whole lot of sales, the label might choose to drop them from their roster, which may not be a good thing for them.

For independant bands, buying their CDs is just as important as buying their stickers, posters, etc.

So I think downloading/copying is not such a bad thing -- just takes money away from the labels. Buying tickets to see the band -- now that's where they're getting compensated.

cheers,
supervij
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
The RIAA and MPAA claim illegal downloading is killing their sales and that is their justification for DRM. While downloading may put a small dent in their sales that is flimsy logic - sales decline because the music is going in the wrong direction (rap) and prices are too high. When prices are too high, those that want the music but can't afford to buy a lot rationlize that it is ok to download.

For legitimate customers, DRM is a thorn in their side. I buy CDs, new and used, because I want to *own* the music I like. I have dozens of CDs that are way out of print and will NEVER be re-released on CD or make it to an online music store like iTunes et al. Many years ago I did download songs using IRC but only those that were on my wanted list and impossible to find new. Through a combination of Ebay and used CD stores, I've now got actual CDs of most everything and never download anything. I've even bought records for stuff that was never even released on CD and recorded it myself using my computer.

DRM is about limiting choice for the consumer. The record industry decides what to release and when and if you are looking for something older and not 'mainstream', h%ll will freeze over before they will ever make it available for purchase. At least with a physcial medium like CD or LP, once you get a copy of it you can preserve it forever.
 
b_panther_g

b_panther_g

Audioholic
Tom Andry said:
...Sure, it is easier to share songs over the Internet but it is essentially the same thing. The music industry hasn't collapsed under the weight of it and I'm doubting it ever will.
You're not the only person that sees it that way.

Here's a quote from another article...

"...I would like to finish with the marketing observation that the record industry hates. During the heyday of Napster and open free music sharing and trading, when million of people swapped songs, the CD business was booming. Once Napster was shut down, and along with it the social network of music discovery, sales began to plummet. They are still falling." - John C. Dvorak

Link to article...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid={775E7E37-8A51-438B-AAD8-D1B0B7FCADC5}&dist=rss
 
A

abboudc

Audioholic Chief
I could be mistaken, but bands make peanuts on CD sales...the record companies are the ones making the huge profits. Bands make money by performing live, be it huge stadiums or small clubs.

I would think most bands today wouldn't care about records or labels. In the YouTube era, most bands that never would have been signed by the record companies can be huge. The only ones losing out are the labels.
 
Kolia

Kolia

Full Audioholic
I hadn't seen things that way...

Very interresting discussion people :)
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
The recording industry works in a similar manner to publishing. The artists get an advance and sales of their product are deducted from that advance. Only when the sales exceed their advance do they start to profit from further sales. But of course their share of the profits is extremely small.

Don't cry for the recording industry. While there is risk that the bands they sign won't generate enough sales to cover their expenses of promoting the band's music, they make a fortune off of those that do succeed. It's like options traders - the majority of their bets go wrong but when they win they win BIG and it more than makes up for prior losses.

Anyone that justifies downloading music on the assumption that 'the big rich bands won't miss it' are mistaken. The artists make peanuts compared to the record labels.

A few years ago I saw a quote from a record industry insider that said 'If the record industry would be content to make hundreds of millions instead of billions the artists would be better off'. He was alluding to lowering CD prices and I think that observation is spot on.
 
Wafflesomd

Wafflesomd

Senior Audioholic
I stopped buying music a long time ago. Not because of the money, but because most of all the new emerging artist, or new age music, sucks.

Seriously, it's all junk. Rap is utterly terrible, the pop music of today is just horrid. There's no talent anymore. Very few artists actually write their own songs anymore.

Most of my friends fall into the rap and crap of today. I have a feeling that they never even listen to the music, just listen to it to fit in.

Not to mention the ever popular loudness war. Why should I buy music, if It's guaranteed to sound like garbage.

The last album I ever bought was Hootie and the Blowfish. I still love that band, they have a great sound.

I'll start buying records again, when they are worth buying.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
Wafflesomd said:
I have a feeling that they never even listen to the music, just listen to it to fit in.
I have that feeling too. :(
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Wafflesomd said:
I stopped buying music a long time ago. Not because of the money, but because most of all the new emerging artist, or new age music, sucks.
I mostly agree with that with a few exceptions but look at it this way: Most of the 'good' music is now in the under $10 bin. There are still plenty of full CDs and individual songs from the '70s and '80s that I need so I haven't stopped buying music completely.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
I find it real hard to feel sorry for bands crying foul because somebody down loaded their song for free,it just reaks of greed to me,the biggest proponents of this are the richest people in the industry.

I could give a rats a$$ about some dude who just got featured on mtv cribs with his collection of lambo's,huge mansion & crusty gold teeth loosing anything.Musicians,bands & rap performers all cry that comparing how we all recorded our own music when we were kids is somehow different because we didnt have the ease of down loading that we now have,while this is true the music industry also didnt have mtv & music videos to promote their music & teenagers back in the day had nowhere near the disposable income to spend on music that they do now.

Just another case of corporate giants trying to bang out the customer for every last cent.
 
pzaur

pzaur

Audioholic Samurai
With the state of current pop music and related genres, it's a wonder people ask me why I continue to purchase classical and listen to NPR. It's not about talent anymore. No label is willing to develop a talent. They only want something that is marketable and will make money instantly. Wrong pitches can be fixed in production. Little talent is often made up for by little clothing!
btw - I'm 28.

The big problem with Apple's advice is they are being hypocrites. Remove your DRM, but we won't remove ours.

There isn't a bad genre out there. I see a lot of people (not pointing fingers, but this reference is made constantly!) state the rap has a silent 'C' in front of it. The problem isn't with the genre. It's with the industry having no variation in the artists and the fact that the top sellers are 99.9% of the time pushing a negative attitude while there are a multitude of smaller artists who don't have that type of message. They don't make waves, so they don't push the little artists. Become a pedophile, OD, get a DUI. These are what the companies want so they encourage the behavior at the top which results in a trickle down affect to the youngest listener who hears "to make money, you have be bad, do drugs, sell drugs, kill, go against authority". These are all negative perceptions that are created/caused/encouraged by the INDUSTRY.

-pat
 
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M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
pzaur said:
These are what the companies want so they encourage the behavior at the top which results in a trickle down affect to the youngest listener who hears "to make money, you have be bad, do drugs, sell drugs, kill, go against authority". These are all negative perceptions that are created/caused/encouraged by the INDUSTRY.

-pat
I agree 100% and that is EXACTLY why rap has a silent 'C' in front of it. It's not listenable and is objectionable to anyone with half a brain and some amount of education. It is a virus that is affecting our youth and causing the impressionable to aspire to the wrong things. What kind of self-respecting artist/producer/businessman would name their label 'Murder Inc'? The kind of person that thinks killing someone is an acceptable response to being 'dissed.

Like all things...this too shall pass and I personally can't wait for that day.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
MDS said:
I agree 100% and that is EXACTLY why rap has a silent 'C' in front of it. It's not listenable and is objectionable to anyone with half a brain and some amount of education. It is a virus that is affecting our youth and causing the impressionable to aspire to the wrong things. What kind of self-respecting artist/producer/businessman would name their label 'Murder Inc'? The kind of person that thinks killing someone is an acceptable response to being 'dissed.

Like all things...this too shall pass and I personally can't wait for that day.
I just had to quote your entire post so maybe somebody will read it twice,in fact i think this is the best post ever written anywhere.

RAP SUCKS!!
 
birdonthebeach

birdonthebeach

Full Audioholic
highfihoney said:
I find it real hard to feel sorry for bands crying foul because somebody down loaded their song for free,it just reaks of greed to me,the biggest proponents of this are the richest people in the industry.

Even if the bands are rich, and the "big four" labels are greedy, that does not make it okay to steal music. I mean seriously, how is stealing music any different from shoplifting? The makers of clothing and candy, for example, are big corporations, their top generals make ridiculous sums of money, etc.

I have no love lost for the big four, nor do I like the excessive greed of many top artists. But stealing is stealing in my book. Stealing from a rich guy is just as wrong as stealing from a poor guy.

I hope they get rid of DRM, not because I want to steal music, but because I should be able to use something I purchase without ridiculous restrictions.

jwc
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
I can say my CD collection is complete, so I really don't buy CDs anymore unless it's a special edition or release by an artist known to me. The music industry as a whole has degenerated into a shell of what it was, you're all correct, nobody wants to take the time and money to develop real talent, its the flavor of the month gone haywire. An eye opener to me was a thread around here about how high music is recorded today, well as an "experiment " I went (on the advise of my niece) to BB and picked up Jamiroquai's "High Times Singles 1992-2006, the material, music-wise wasn't offensive (some funk inspired stuff), but the sound quality was just horrible, I'm not into the measuring thing, but I have a good ear for music (and for what I like) and this CD was harsh, "gritty":eek: My regular (older Cds) sound incredible compared to the crap being engineered today. Sad what's happening to the music industry.:mad:
 
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