My thumbs hurt...

[Panhandler801]

Put together 7 cables last night (12ga wire from BJC and their locking banana plugs). Surrounds and porch ceiling into wall jack, fronts and center directly to receiver.

Paradigm Studio 60s
Paradigm CC590
Paradigm AMS100Rs (ceiling)

Had already played the ceiling speakers and was moderately impressed with just them. Last night was my first chance, after assembling the cables, to play the fronts and center.

MIND YOU, I don't have a CD / DVD / Blue Ray player yet, so my only options was FM tuner or the TV.

I really really hope that either A) these two sources just don't make good sound... period, or B) The speakers aren't "broken in".

I have a feeling that a "broken in" speaker may be nothing more than one that you're used to and that you've convinced yourself that the money was well spent.

Thuroughly unimpressed last night. 60s sounded very harsh at high levels. Not the best room in the world (very large, hardwood floors, misssing one couch, and no floor treatments down yet), but very harsh none the less. In 7.1 watching TV with my fronts about 9ft apart and sitting distance 12 ft back, there was a huge disconnect between the dialoge (center speaker) and the rest of the sound from the front, and I got virtually nothing from the surrounds in the ceiling.

I have not yet tinkered with everything, so I'm sure this will get better. I'm pushing the speakers with the Yam RX-V663, and supposedly the little mic feature on these new models really does balance the sound pretty well. We'll see what it comes up with.

Suffice it to say, I'm a little bit dissapointed. Granted, this is typical for me, as I usually have unrealisitc expectations. That being said, there may be nothing wrong and most folks might love what I've got. It's just my first system and by the time it's all said and done, I'll have $7,000 in it.

I want to be happy, that's all.

 

[Matt34]

A crappy source is going to sound crappy regardless of how much money you have into the rest of the system.

 

[Panhandler801]

Source meaning FM Tuner, not the RX-V663, right?

Hopefully I'm right there.

I guess my conern was that at high SPL is where the shrill sound came into play. Seems like that particular "noise" will occur at that SPL and frequency regardless of from where the speaker is getting that signal.

Maybe not.

 

[Matt34]

Source meaning FM Tuner, not the RX-V663, right?

Hopefully I'm right there.

I guess my conern was that at high SPL is where the shrill sound came into play. Seems like that particular "noise" will occur at that SPL and frequency regardless of from where the speaker is getting that signal.

Maybe not.

Yes, the FM signal.

 

[Midcow2]

Agree it could be the source

RThe FM tuners in most AVRs are just an after thought these days and are not becessarylily the best specs. If you really want to listen to FM make sure you have a good antnenna at least a good di-pole ( not necessarlily an outside antennna) and you might also consider a separate FM tuner.

Second have you calibrated the sound levels of your speakers. Typically you can auto-adjust and go from there first with your ear and then with SPL meter.

Don't give up yet, it sounds like you have an excellent system!

 

[m5isa540]

I have a Yamaha HTR6090 (120W X 7) and a Denon AVR4308 (140w X 7), Paradigm Studio 100's and CC590, DefTech BP10 rears, and a Velodyne DD15 sub. I started with the HTR6090 and was not impressed with the way my system sounded. It was pretty good, but not great. I purchased the Denon AVR4308 and noticed a much richer sound. It woke up the Paradigm's.

Now, your RXV-663 (96W X 7) is a respectable receiver and a good place to start. But it may be a bit under powered for your Paradigm Studio 60's. Your room acoustics need some attention too (as you mentioned). The good news is you have made a good investment in speakers (always a good place to start). I suggest you first add a DVD/CD player (check out OPPO, they are a great value) so you have a good listening source. Then add a good subwoofer to fill in the bass. I think you will then be impressed with your setup. In the long run upgrade your receiver or add a power amp. I thikn the sweet spot is at about 150W. Take your time and have fun. You are on the right path. And remember, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[zhimbo]

Now, your RXV-663 (96W X 7) is a respectable receiver and a good place to start. But it may be a bit under powered for your Paradigm Studio 60's.

The Studio 60s specs are:
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 91dB/W/m (room), 88dB/W/m (anechoic)

I don't think they should be any problem to drive.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Put together 7 cables last night (12ga wire from BJC and their locking banana plugs). Surrounds and porch ceiling into wall jack, fronts and center directly to receiver.

Paradigm Studio 60s
Paradigm CC590
Paradigm AMS100Rs (ceiling)

Had already played the ceiling speakers and was moderately impressed with just them. Last night was my first chance, after assembling the cables, to play the fronts and center.

MIND YOU, I don't have a CD / DVD / Blue Ray player yet, so my only options was FM tuner or the TV.

I really really hope that either A) these two sources just don't make good sound... period, or B) The speakers aren't "broken in".

I have a feeling that a "broken in" speaker may be nothing more than one that you're used to and that you've convinced yourself that the money was well spent.

Thuroughly unimpressed last night. 60s sounded very harsh at high levels. Not the best room in the world (very large, hardwood floors, misssing one couch, and no floor treatments down yet), but very harsh none the less. In 7.1 watching TV with my fronts about 9ft apart and sitting distance 12 ft back, there was a huge disconnect between the dialoge (center speaker) and the rest of the sound from the front, and I got virtually nothing from the surrounds in the ceiling.

I have not yet tinkered with everything, so I'm sure this will get better. I'm pushing the speakers with the Yam RX-V663, and supposedly the little mic feature on these new models really does balance the sound pretty well. We'll see what it comes up with.

Suffice it to say, I'm a little bit dissapointed. Granted, this is typical for me, as I usually have unrealisitc expectations. That being said, there may be nothing wrong and most folks might love what I've got. It's just my first system and by the time it's all said and done, I'll have $7,000 in it.

I want to be happy, that's all.

Hi Panhandler801,

I hear ya on the expectations thing.
Don't be dissapointed. You have nice equipment.

I think your receiver will be fine as long as your room isn't huge and you don't listen at super high volumes.(YMMV) The source and set-up is the problem. The FM radio signal wont ever sound great IMO and Cable/satellite/OAT TV will only sound so/so. It's just the nature of the beast and a set of reveling speakers just allows you to hear whats wrong even clearer. That being said...

Get a DVD player in the system and run a manual set-up using the receiver, tape measure and SPL meter. It's OK that your room is not complete yet. It will give you practice for when the room is complete and you reset your levels. Play with positioning also, toe in can have a major affect on sound.

Speaker break-in has more to do with breaking you in than the speakers IMO.

Let us know how things work out!

SBF1

 

[mtrycrafts]

....
Paradigm Studio 60s
Paradigm CC590
Paradigm AMS100Rs (ceiling)

Had already played the ceiling speakers and was moderately impressed with just them. Last night was my first chance, after assembling the cables, to play the fronts and center.

MIND YOU, I don't have a CD / DVD / Blue Ray player yet, so my only options was FM tuner or the TV.

I really really hope that either A) these two sources just don't make good sound... period, or B) The speakers aren't "broken in".

I have a feeling that a "broken in" speaker may be nothing more than one that you're used to and that you've convinced yourself that the money was well spent.

Thuroughly unimpressed last night. 60s sounded very harsh at high levels. Not the best room in the world (very large, hardwood floors, misssing one couch, and no floor treatments down yet), but very harsh none the less. In 7.1 watching TV with my fronts about 9ft apart and sitting distance 12 ft back, there was a huge disconnect between the dialoge (center speaker) and the rest of the sound from the front, and I got virtually nothing from the surrounds in the ceiling.

I have not yet tinkered with everything, so I'm sure this will get better. I'm pushing the speakers with the Yam RX-V663, and supposedly the little mic feature on these new models really does balance the sound pretty well. We'll see what it comes up with.


I want to be happy, that's all.

I see a few issues.
Your room acoustics seem to be contributing a lot to your displeasure.
Speakers will not break in to the point of great expectations
You really need to set them up as well, all channels levels matched, etc.
Then, your FM/TV source is not the best deliverer of good audio.

 

[m5isa540]

The Studio 60s specs are:
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 91dB/W/m (room), 88dB/W/m (anechoic)

I don't think they should be any problem to drive.

Nor do I think a 50W or 75W receiver would have a problem driving these speakers. But they will definitely not sound as good as than CAN with a quality 130W - 150W AVR. The RX-V663 is an excellent starting point and the Paradigm's are a great starting point. Just don't expect too much from the Yamaha, especially in what appears to be an acoustically challenged room.

 

[Panhandler801]

Nor do I think a 50W or 75W receiver would have a problem driving these speakers. But they will definitely not sound as good as than CAN with a quality 130W - 150W AVR. The RX-V663 is an excellent starting point and the Paradigm's are a great starting point. Just don't expect too much from the Yamaha, especially in what appears to be an acoustically challenged room.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Sounds like the proverbial "penny-wise and pound-foolish," tendancy of mine might have reared it's ugly head again.

Good news is I got the Yamaha for very cheap, but I guess it still would have been nice to put that $300 towards a higher quality piece of electronics.

Also beginning to wish that I'd gone with the 100s instead of the 60s. I wonder if they would have been a little less harsh.

I'll play with the mic and try to get things balanced out tonight. I know I've only scratched the surface of all the possibilities, it's just that I wanted to be WOWed last night, and I wasn't. 18 months building this house and this was my treat to myself. Finally moved in, and just felt a little let down.

I'll figure it out. Thanks for everyone's input. Maybe I knew that this whole deal wasn't just plug and play, but was hoping that it might turn out that way.

 

[zhimbo]

Not exactly what I wanted to hear.

Nor should you listen to it. Having extra, unused watts don't magically make a speaker sound better.

Don't worry about it.

 

[m5isa540]

Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Sounds like the proverbial "penny-wise and pound-foolish," tendancy of mine might have reared it's ugly head again.

Good news is I got the Yamaha for very cheap, but I guess it still would have been nice to put that $300 towards a higher quality piece of electronics.

Also beginning to wish that I'd gone with the 100s instead of the 60s. I wonder if they would have been a little less harsh.

I'll play with the mic and try to get things balanced out tonight. I know I've only scratched the surface of all the possibilities, it's just that I wanted to be WOWed last night, and I wasn't. 18 months building this house and this was my treat to myself. Finally moved in, and just felt a little let down.

I'll figure it out. Thanks for everyone's input. Maybe I knew that this whole deal wasn't just plug and play, but was hoping that it might turn out that way.

My intention was not to make you feel that you have made bad choices. I am sorry if I came across that way. You are at a great starting point and you have made better choices than I did when I first started down this road. And no, you should not have purchased the 100's. The 60's are just fine and a much better value than the 100's. You are better off buying a good subwoofer. A good sub will take your system to "WOW!!" faster than anything else you can add to your system. Buy as much sub as you can afford. Your best bet is to buy used and save 40% - 60% (checkout Audiogon.com). No need to buy new....

 

[m5isa540]

Nor should you listen to it. Having extra, unused watts don't magically make a speaker sound better.

Don't worry about it.

zhimbo.... I respectfully disagree. In this case more watts will make a difference. Just like upgrading my Denon 4308 to McIntosh separates will make a difference in my system.... There is ALWAYS something bigger, better, faster, smoother, cleaner, louder, brighter, stronger..... just around the corner. As with most of us, panhandler801's challenge is to optimize performance while staying within budget. That's part of what makes this game so much fun.....

 

[zhimbo]

zhimbo.... I respectfully disagree. In this case more watts will make a difference. Just like upgrading my Denon 4308 to McIntosh separates will make a difference in my system.... There is ALWAYS something bigger, better, faster, smoother, cleaner, louder, brighter, stronger..... just around the corner. As with most of us, panhandler801's challenge is to optimize performance while staying within budget. That's part of what makes this game so much fun.....

Regarding the OP...

Listening to TV and FM radio (i.e., limited dynamic range material) at less-then deafening levels in a normal-ish room?

Nah, no difference.

 

[mazersteven]

Also beginning to wish that I'd gone with the 100s instead of the 60s. I wonder if they would have been a little less harsh.

The speakers you have are excellent. I don't think you would have been happier going with the 100's over the 60's. For 2 channel music only maybe, but not for HT.

I really believe the problems you are experiencing right now are as follows

Proper Calibration
Speaker Placement
Room Acoustics

Get yourself a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter and calibrate your system manually.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sound+meter&kw=sound+meter&parentPage=search

Do you have pictures of your room and speakers so we can help with speaker placement?

And you need to get some acoustics in that room. But I still feel we can get the system sound excellent for now.

 

[Panhandler801]

thanks for the encouragement. i've got tons of pics. can't upload them here (work), though. picture sharing sites all blocked.

I'll get some up soon.

 

[m5isa540]

Regarding the OP...

Listening to TV and FM radio (i.e., limited dynamic range material) at less-then deafening levels in a normal-ish room?

Nah, no difference.

Agreed! But who buys expensive electronics to listen to FM or watch TV? I don't know anyone who does. As we all know, the ROI (return on investment)is when listening to music CD's and watching DVD's (DTS, Dolby, etc), which is why we spend money on home theater electronics in the first place (not to listen to FM and watch TV)! Get real.....

 

[zhimbo]

Agreed! But who buys expensive electronics to listen to FM or watch TV? I don't know anyone who does. As we all know, the ROI (return on investment)is when listening to music CD's and watching DVD's (DTS, Dolby, etc), which is why we spend money on home theater electronics in the first place (not to listen to FM and watch TV)! Get real.....

Well, did you read the first post?

MIND YOU, I don't have a CD / DVD / Blue Ray player yet, so my only options was FM tuner or the TV.

I'm trying to help diagnose the problem in the OP. It isn't time to be talking about the Yammie. There's simply no way it's the limiting factor in the situation Panhandler801 is describing.

 

[calnbs]

The speakers you have are excellent. I don't think you would have been happier going with the 100's over the 60's. For 2 channel music only maybe, but not for HT.

I really believe the problems you are experiencing right now are as follows

Proper Calibration
Speaker PlacementRoom Acoustics

Get yourself a Radio Shack Sound Level Meter and calibrate your system manually.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sound+meter&kw=sound+meter&parentPage=search

Do you have pictures of your room and speakers so we can help with speaker placement?

And you need to get some acoustics in that room. But I still feel we can get the system sound excellent for now.

I completely agree with mazersteven.....I can not stress enough about properly calibrating your system before you'll even begin to tap the potential of your system. There is no such thing as "plug and play" when it comes to audio/HT. I spent 2 years reading about speakers but zero minutes on calibrations and Audyssey.

My experiences was similar to yours. I remember when I first finish plugging my AV123 Rockets to my Onkyo 805 without any calibration and it sounded like crap. I almost had a heart attack...there was no way a $4,000 system sound like that. Even my cheap 10 year old pioneer complete system sounded better. After a little bit more digging, calibrating, playing with reciever options, crossovers, etc. It started to sound, not perfect but good. They say that getting a good "SUB" will be a huge difference and they weren't lying. Recieved my MFW-15 last week and let me tell you, my Rockets finally sounds like ROCKETS. I went from being worried to being completely satisfied. Now, I just need to work on the room treatment....I can't wait what kind of improvement that will be.

Read your Receiver's manual and the link below. Play around with the options, crossover, etc. Hope it helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554