My HT Quest

[wilkenboy]

Final pic before the Ascends arrive

Checked UPS today - the 170s are due to arrive today, and the 340c should be here on thursday. Unfortunately I leave for vacation early Friday and this week is a busy week at work so I'm not sure how much time I'll have to tweak/enjoy, but I'll post my initial impressions here.

I realized that the little nails in drywall were fine for the logitech speakers but would not survive the weight of the 170s, and so built some stands this weekend out of some scrap MDF I had laying around. These are not intended to be permanent but will get the job done until I can build the cabinets that the speakers will eventually rest on:

And just for reference, here is the setup I've been using for the last few months: Logitech speakers on LR duty and the Yamaha in center.

The Yamaha and its brother will be moved to surround duty (replacing logitechs). I have wiring for 7.1 so I'm contemplating moving the logitechs to rear surround duty. I'm really interested to see if the extra rear surrounds make a difference in HT.

~Josh

 

[wilkenboy]

170s in...

Wow, its past midnight already- I hooked them up at 8, settle in for some listening, then look up and its midnight. I have to be up early tomorrow, so I'll keep this short.

I am impressed. I can't wait for the 340c to come in.

More thorough impressions (and pictures) to follow.

~Josh

 

[wilkenboy]

Ascend 170s: the day after

Got the 170s for left/right in yesterday. Stayed up till 1AM last night listening. A little 5th Element, Seal:Live from Paris, Sting: Brand New Day DTS.

Before I got underway I let the Yamaha run its auto-eq sequence, and it basically did not correct the response of the Ascends at all, where as it had really done a number on the Logitechs to get them flat!

These are nice, big monitors. So far, I'm extremely pleased... as good as or better than the Paradigm Studio 20s that I listened to (at over $600 a pair!). And better than anything I've heard in the $300-400 a pair price range. My first impression is that they are true to everything that is written about them - clean, flat frequency response, designed with the intent to step back and let the music speak for itself without coloration.

I found in listening to the Seal concert and Sting DTS that everything seemed more "live" than previously... a lot more detail there than I've heard with the other speakers I auditioned. These speakers image left and right beautifully and dissappear as a locatable source of the sound, leaving you with just the music. Believe it or not I actually think I was getting more/better surround effects - very likey because the older speakers were muddying the overall sound in the room.

Listening to the 5th Element was slightly different - I started off with the screen off to just focus on the speakers. What I realized very quickly was that the Yamaha in the center position was not "up to par"- since movie mixes are 70% center channel it was a lot more apparent. The sound coming out of the Yamaha center was definetly more boxy, and was clearly identifiable as coming from that speaker as opposed to the Ascends which just seemed to meld. The 340c is scheduled to arrive on thursday... but then vacation travel starts Friday, so I'll have to wait to really play with it.

Aesthetics: obviously I did not really factor this much into the decision aside from not being "butt ugly". While the Ascend's styling is very plain, having them in my hands now I really appreciate that - they are not obtrusive with the lights on... and with the lights off it doesn't matter! Would I like a piano black finish? Sure! Would I have paid much more for it. No way.

So here are some photos for the visually-oriented folks out there.

Yes, that little runty thing to the left is the logitech the 170 replaced!!!

Now in context in the room:

As I put these guys through more paces in the next few weeks I'll update. Its been painful being at work today - I've been mentally ordering and re-ordering what I'm going to listen to tonight!

~Josh

 

[AVRat]

So Josh, what's the word since you received the 340C?

 

[wilkenboy]

So Josh, what's the word since you received the 340C?

AVRat,

The word is: bliss. Which probably helps to explain why I have not posted in almost two months. I have spend most of my time enjoying my entire collection all over again. I'm finding things in recordings and DVDs that simply were not there before in terms of clarity or soundstage definition. Its like experiencing the "first time" with everything all over again.

So to recap since I got the Ascend 340c in:

Moved the logitechs out of surround duty - how filled by the Yamahas in my sig line. Not tonally matched like I'd eventually like them to be, but they're beating the pants off the logitechs.

Got back from a family vacation early for work, wife and kids still on the road for a full week, which meant most evenings were open for enjoyment with little distraction. I immediately dove into the action-oriented DVDs and went through a rather long period which I would call attention-deficit, meaning I would watch one or two scenes from each DVD before moving to the next.

During that week, had a number of friends and family over to enjoy the system. My sister in-law commented on just how much of a difference she noticed multiple times. My cousin who originally inspired me on the whole HT thing said he thought I had made an incredible find in the Ascends. Agreed!

Installed RoomEQ wizard and dabbled for about five hours. Man I could tweak for a week, but got things dialed in reasonably and then went back to enjoying, realizing I was missing everything below 30 Hz!

Just one more comment on Ascend - I got the receipts from the original owners, and emailed Ascend to transfer the warranty to my name. No problems, got the confirmation email back the same day. Thumbs up Ascend for supporting your second-hand owners!

Moved the logitech sub out of duty and replaced it with the Eosone from downstairs. A little improvement, nothing major- but the lows around 30-40Hz are a little cleaner. I don't think the Eosone goes much lower (Logitech went to about 33 Hz), but it does it a little less harshly at the same volume.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about subs - its still the next equipment upgrade. The lead contender is still the SVS-PB10. But I've done a bit of research on building a Sonosub over at the HTGuide forum as well as AVSforum. The problem is, with $450 (or less if off ebay) it seems I get a warrantied, "sure thing" in the PB10. With a sonosub at around $400, you put in a lot of extra work, and certainly the potential outcome is better (higher SPL/lower extension) - but there seem to be a lot of ways it could go wrong as well, with no warranty. In addition, it seems like you can really get crazy on the material costs relative to sonotube unless you have someone willing to sell it to you cut to length. Does anyone here have any advice based on experience?

Cosmetic improvments to the room are still pending - room painting seems like a next natural step and I still have the cabinets to build and finish. Given the temps here in Texas are >100F daily I'm in no rush to spend hours in the unairconditioned garage. That project will likely wait until it cools down a bit.

I've also come to the conclusion my room could use a little acoustic treatment - primarily in the side-side mode, where I can detect some pretty decent flutter echo when there's a sharp sound in the surround channel. Also, I'd like to treat some of the primary reflection points. Again, I'll DIY this, and no rush with the temperatures where they are.

I could go on about small improvments for pages, but the reality is that I am enjoying it immensely. The Ascends are very natural and while you can probably find a better speaker I think you'd be hard pressed to do so at the price.

For those of you still sitting on the fence a real home theater room: stop sitting and start saving. Its worth it.

~Josh

 

[wilkenboy]

One other thing I failed to mention. At this point, outside of bass extension, I would put the sound in my relatively meager HT at level or better than most movie theaters in my area.

~Josh

 

[westcott]

It is always good to hear that you are happy with your purchase.

The center channel is so important and I am glad you found the funds to upgrade.

The sub is the next best thing to upgrade after the center channel, IMO so take your time selecting one.

I recommend buying a sub that is already built and ready to plug in. Many people underestimate the engineering that goes behind the design and construction of a subwoofer and an amplifier of equal thought. Your budget may be limited but spend as much as you can on a sub. It will pay big dividends in the end and should last you a good long time.

Good luck and let us now what you decide on.

 

[wilkenboy]

The sub is the next best thing to upgrade after the center channel, IMO so take your time selecting one.

I recommend buying a sub that is already built and ready to plug in. Many people underestimate the engineering that goes behind the design and construction of a subwoofer and an amplifier of equal thought. Your budget may be limited but spend as much as you can on a sub. It will pay big dividends in the end and should last you a good long time.

Good luck and let us now what you decide on.

Westcott,

As always, thanks for the solid advice. The little DIYer in me is really attracted to putting together a sub, but the more rational, risk-averse side of me agrees with you for all of the reasons above. I think my sub upgrade will likely be the "sure thing" purchase, but I'm not ruling out building one later - once I'm safely in the realm of authorative 20Hz extension with a nice warranty.

Right now I'm targeting $450, which just puts the PB10 in range which on paper (and in numerous reviews) meets all of my criteria. The one knock I've heard on it is that it can be a little sloppy during heavy bass scenes and it is occasionally accused of being not a musical as it could be. I've also read of folks doing things to remedy this either via batting in the port or filtering down at the 15 Hz range.

I haven't heard the same critisism applied to the next steps up the SVS chain, but you pretty quickly get yourself into $650-$800 range which probably is a bit rich at this point for me. Again, I'm not completely ruling that out, its just its going to really have to make a BIG difference in my space to make that leap.

As always, advice on other subs welcome!

~Josh

 

[westcott]

I tend to recommend subs with a passive radiator. Especially those on a budget. A passive may not play as loud in some frequencies as a ported design but in exchange, you get a much cleaner sound even when you may go beyond the limits of the sub.

Good luck and let us know what you think of the sound of the different designs you audition.

 

[wilkenboy]

I tend to recommend subs with a passive radiator. Especially those on a budget. A passive may not play as loud in some frequencies as a ported design but in exchange, you get a much cleaner sound even when you may go beyond the limits of the sub.

Any recommendations? I'd like to get some critical listening done in the next few months (before offspring #3 is due in October), but don't have a lot of time to drive around. I'd prefer to call out to some reputable shops and do some focused listening of different designs and price ranges.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[westcott]

Any recommendations? I'd like to get some critical listening done in the next few months (before offspring #3 is due in October), but don't have a lot of time to drive around. I'd prefer to call out to some reputable shops and do some focused listening of different designs and price ranges.

Thanks,

~Josh

Martin Logan Grotto (awesome sub)
Klipsch RSW10,12 (great sub)
James EMB1000
Mackie S218S 18"
Aperion Intimus S8 APR
MTX SW1212,1010,1515
Earthquake MKIV10C

Search the net for best prices like at Audiogon and the likes. Some of these are above your budget but if you shop around for a used unit or scratch and dent, you may walk away with a really nice piece of equipment. It is more expensive to build a passive radiator system but well worth the investment IMO. Chuffing is my biggest complaint of most subwoofers. Expecially when pushed hard.

 

[wilkenboy]

Hi all, its been a while. I'm about 2-3 weeks away from the birth of my third child, so wanted to provide a quick update before going into the three-month tunnel of sleep deprivation and incoherentness that a newborn brings about.

As you may remember the last major electronics decision point is the sub. Saving for the sub is a long process which I hope to wrap up near the end of this year.

I've done a lot of emailing back and forth with Tom V and Ron S over at SVS. Let me say that without spending a penny yet they have returned my emails usually within two-three hours, which is absolutely phenomenal. Their willingness to do the pre-sales consulting and advice dance with someone who is still a few months away from a purchase is a real breath of fresh air and a credit to the way they run their business.

Another thing which has been nice about the exchange is the fact they have been very forthcoming about the differences between their products in my particular room, and have not necessarily been cramming the highest price unit down my throat from the get-go, something which I've experienced in email exchanges with two other sub manufacturers and most HT boutique shops I've visited.

In the meantime I've been working a lot on the design of the cabinetry and picking up some of the necessary woodworking skills to get that all done. Nothing really major to show for it yet as most of my research has been in heat ventilation, joinery methods (and practicing them), and weighing different options on finish (painted MDF or finish-grade ply and hardwood?) I've realized that to do quality joinery quickly / cleanly I'll need either a nice table router and some bit sets ($450 and up) or I'll have to put together some well-thought out fixtures for my table saw and dado set. The sub will take priority here but it never hurts to think a few steps ahead...

My wife and kids are still loving the room and its getting as much use as ever - most of the summer was spent with free rentals from the 40-rental Blockbuster card I got as part of the Panasonic projector deal. Now that LOST, Amazing race, Grey's Anatomy, Battlestar Galactica, and Survivor are back on that's become the place to be in the evening.

One complaint my wife has had was the inability to see in the room while watching dark material... she prefers to see what she's snacking/drinking on. This was a major dilemma for me... I want to keep her happy, but at the same time did not want to compromise the picture quality by having a lot of ambient light hitting the screen. I was thinking some sconces would be the long term solution, but was still concerned about throwing light directly onto the screen. While looking at some cabinet designs on the internet I came across one that was backlit with rope lighting, and it got me to thinking. I have about 3/4" between my screen and the wall due to the cleat hanging method I used. Why not tuck a rope-light back up in there? So a trip to Home Depot, $10, and a little assistance from my 7-year old daughter and I have a pretty nice solution. The overall effect is a soft glow projected onto the wall very similar to the Phillips Ambilight system. I was pretty worried about the impact on viewing experience but its very easy on the eyes and my wife is pleased with the solution. When I get off my lazy butt I'll take some pictures and post them here so you all can see.

The only downside at the moment is the end of the cord is exposed and I have to walk over and plug/unplug the thing in every time. I'm eyeballing some of the IR-controllable Lutron dimmers. Eventually I'll run the power cord down the inside of the wall and have it controllable via my Harmony remote. Very likely I'll set it up to turn off/on with the rest of the system and set up some of the soft buttons to control the intensity of the glow.

Gotta love modern technology.

The next post will contain some shots of the new lighting system... as well as the Ascend 340c that I picked up but have not taking pics of yet.

Thanks for following and as always comments and questions are welcome!

~Josh

 

[wilkenboy]

Screen Backlighting pics

All,

As promised - pictures of my backlighting solution for the screen. I took a few pics here to demonstrate the difference in room between ambient light, total darkness, and the rope lighting in both bright and dark scenes.

First of all, here's a relatively dark scene from a Sting HD concert with all lights off.

Now the same scene with the room lights on. You can see why this is not an option for me!!

Now, here we are with the rope lights:

Here's what it looks like from the entrance to the room - I didn't want the rope light visible and even with just shoving it in behind (I haven't permanently clipped it yet) I think its working well.

And the same thing with a frame from CSI showing what it looks like with a "bright" scene.

And last, but not least, a shot with the camera up against the wall showing the rope light itself. Sometime in the next few days I'll get in there and actually secure it to the wall or back of the screen which should make the light a little more uniform around the perimeter.

Once I get the cabinets in I'll bury that power cord in the wall and install a dimmer that will be controlled from my Harmony Remote.

~Josh

 

[jaxvon]

Wow. The backlighting looks amazing. Nice idea! I think that if I ever get a FP setup, I might have to add the same thing.

 

[wilkenboy]

Wow. The backlighting looks amazing. Nice idea! I think that if I ever get a FP setup, I might have to add the same thing.

Thanks - it is a good compromise, although I'm sure some purist videophiles here are cringing, it puts off about the same amount of light that you find in a theater during the movie.

For $10 in materials its also cheap!

~Josh

 

[Sheep]

I like it!

Some Panasonic TV's have that feature too. I believe it was used to help your eyes after looking at a really bright object in the dark.

SheepStar

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

That looks really good. Someone should market those lights as HT lighting, and charge an arm and a leg by specing out the wattage and volts, as well as cord thickness .

 

[wilkenboy]

That looks really good. Someone should market those lights as HT lighting, and charge an arm and a leg by specing out the wattage and volts, as well as cord thickness .

***Evil grin.***

~Josh

 

[wilkenboy]

Controlling the backlight to the screen

On the advice on the folks over at the AVSforum instead of going the controllable dimmer route I've just plugged the power cord from the rope light into the back of the receiver (120V outlet). The net effect is that the rope lights turn on/off when the receiver turns on/off.

Saves me around $40 in materials and probably and an hour worth of wiring the dimmer and reprogramming the remote.

I'm curious if this "bleeds" any power away from the receiver, or if this function of the 2500 is just like a "power strip". I have not noticed any detriment to sound (and I haven't noticed the rope lights dim during intense passages).

Just curious if anyone knows how these things are really wired.

~Josh

 

[Totoro]

Wow. The backlighting looks amazing. Nice idea! I think that if I ever get a FP setup, I might have to add the same thing.

I have backlighting on my system as well and it does look nicer than a completely black room when set to the right brightness level using a remote dimmer.