My email from BOSE

[captiankirk28]

I have posted this before but it has been quite awhile ago, i just think it is a fun read and about up to par!

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I was goofing around and thought i would see what bose had to say about frequency response, thought i would share it with everyone.




Bose Response to me:
Bose's Response: Thank you for your inquiry. Bose Corporation does not publish frequency responses, simply because they are not accurate and usually will mislead the customer.
Frequency responses are usually measured with testing equipment set up in an anechoic chamber. An anechoic chamber is an isolated room designed so that sound will not reflect off any surfaces. Giving out such frequency response results is terrific- for those people who live in anechoic chambers! Most of us listen to our systems in rooms with very reflective surfaces, such as plaster, brick, glass, and dry wall, so the frequency response that a manufacturer may supply is no longer accurate. Just as no two rooms have the same dimensions, nor are they decorated exactly the same or have the same construction, no two rooms will sound the same when using the exact same speakers and amplifier.
For example, if you were to place any speaker in a room with no carpeting and wooden furniture, you would hear something completely different than if they were placed in a room with shag carpeting and plush furniture. Perhaps
this can be equated by imagining a single lighted candle placed in a room with completely black floors, walls and ceiling. Obviously, the same candle when placed in a room with white surroundings will appear to be emitting
much more light than when placed in the first room with black surroundings, as the light will reflect a great deal more off the white surfaces. Sound reflects off surfaces, much like light does. The surroundings make the speakers sound different in the same manner, because they actually are able to reproduce different frequencies via sound reflection and speaker placement.

We hope you do not take the fact that we do not publish speaker frequency responses personally. We do not publish our speakers specifications to anybody, whether it be before or after they have purchased a speaker system of ours. We simply invite our customers ....
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What are your thoughts on this?

Kirk

 

[dobyblue]

I think it would have been more honest if they wrote this:

Bose's Response: Thank you for your inquiry. Bose Corporation does not publish frequency responses, simply because they (our speakers) are not accurate and usually will mislead the customer.

Nyuk, nyuk.

 

[agarwalro]

Just like all their marketing, all fluff. Scientific arguments used to misguide the customer by quoting them out of context and adding a generous amount of great imagery.

To continue the imagery, it would be like Ferrari saying, we have this awesome car that costs as much as your house, but we cannot tell you it's horsepower and torque specs. It looks sublime yet anyone who knows cars will tell you that it performs on par with an entry level Fiat.

 

[lsiberian]

Just like all their marketing, all fluff. Scientific arguments used to misguide the customer by quoting them out of context and adding a generous amount of great imagery.

To continue the imagery, it would be like Ferrari saying, we have this awesome car that costs as much as your house, but we cannot tell you it's horsepower and torque specs. It looks sublime yet anyone who knows cars will tell you that it performs on par with an entry level Fiat.

Let's stop the Fiat and Ferrari bashing by tying their name to this other company. If you want to use someone in this thread other than Bose I suggest Monster.

 

[landonspop]

I heard this rhyme to remind me of Bose.

No highs, no lows,
Must be Bose.

It sounds good

How about a car company giving 0-60 results and telling you it depended on the wind, down hill or up hill, elevation, temperature, road make-up, tires, driver, etc.
Just give us your results and we'll go from there.

 

[MinusTheBear]

The one thing that Bose is extremly good at is clever marketing aimed at the uneducated consumer and Bose's response to your inquiry is a prime example of that. There is truth to their response but they are using that excuse to hide from the facts that their products would measure poorly even in anechoic chamber compared to its competitors.

Bose do not attract consumers through pretty graphs, specs or by word of mouth on the internet but by brand recognition through commericals, magazines, and most importantly by atheletes, actors/actresses using their products in television programs and movies.

Atleast we here at AH can see through the thick cloud of BS.

 

[adwilk]

Yeah, it sucks that they "dodged" the question, but the answer they gave isn't necessarily wrong. While I realize that they have very specific reasons for not publishing response, and that the reason they gave isnt the real one, they are actually correct in their statements.

I know I know.. its misleading...... blah blah.. I'm simply stating that the letter has valid points...

It cracks me up how its "cool" around here to bash Bose. Nobody is making you listen to it and the fact of the matter is, whether its great or not, lots of people ENJOY it. The avg Joe couldn't give two $hit$ about FR, but wants something better than his TV. While Bose isnt accurate, its at least dynamic and interesting... If the customer is happy with his purchase then who cares what it costs. Cost Vs Price. Its the same in every industry and I GUARAN-FREAKIN-TEE you that everybody reading this post has at one point "over" paid for an item and fallen victim to clever, read effective, marketing.

Seriously guys, its a tired subject. If they had tons of unhappy people, I have an issue with it... If their customers are happy, be happy for em.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If someone asked my opinion, I would say that Bose costs too much and doesn't sound as good as some speakers that cost less.

If someone already bought Bose and is stuck with it, I would just say, "As long as you like it, that is all that maters".

 

[ozmedia]

They ALMOST have a point though

In many cases, as everyone here knows, a garbage product (white van speakers for example) will be rated at 20-20 (with no mention of curve or allowable variance).

In those specific cases, the numbers are irrelevant and are just misleading marketing, which BOSE knows all about.

When it comes to Axiom, Advent, RBH, Paradigm, etc. They are all high end, quality products that are accurately designed and measured. When RBH says 45 to 20 +-3dB, they mean it and can prove it.

Just because FISHER says 20-20 for a $299.00 speaker, it means nothing in the real world.

I promise you the better built speaker will reach lower and more accurately every time, regardless of the higher, advertised (more realistic) low frequency response.

When it comes to room placement and imaging, BOSE is the pickiest speaker on the market today. They SHOULD be focused on that issue as it effects their product more than others, but to dismiss it as a reason for not advertising frequency reposnses is pathetic.

BOSE should offer a frequency response graph along with blueprints so you can design an identical room to achieve it in, they are effected by such issues a lot more than anyone else is.

BOSE knows this too, of course, but they focus on dismissing and making those stats are irrelevant. They compare themselves to a low end market segment and say, "Homey don't play that game".

But Homey don' t play with the big kids either, Homey only plays alone, that way he never loses.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you think it would hurt Bose financially if they published a FR of 120 Hz - 12 kHz +/- 6dB?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When it comes to Axiom, Advent, RBH, Paradigm, etc. They are all high end, quality products that are accurately designed and measured. When RBH says 45 to 20 +-3dB, they mean it and can prove it.

Actually, in most cases, the 3rd party measured FR is usally worse (sometimes A LOT worse) than the published FR from the manufacturers.

 

[gmichael]

I think that Bose created a masterful marketing strategy. I dare any company to do it as well. And their products are just good enough to convince Mr. Joe Average that their claims are correct. They are in business to make money and are excelling at that. 98% of the people out there are perfectly happy with the results they get from Bose. I say, let them. The 2% left are here or on other audio sights. We know that Bose can not compete with real high-fi (or even mid-fi) speakers. We'll be here spreading the word to anyone who will listen. A percentage of Joe Average's will join a sight and possibly learn that there is better available. If we have to beat the dead horse to accomplish this, then so be it.

The truth must be told.

(Rambling ended)

 

[MatthewB.]

Actually Bose cube + Bass module frequency response was rated once (Consumer Electronics) and it was at 46Hz-13.3kHz +/-10db (friggin 10db)

 

[MidnightSensi]

Do you think it would hurt Bose financially if they published a FR of 120 Hz - 12 kHz +/- 6dB?

Probably not.

I don't think their customers know what that means or would even care.

It's not audio enthusiasts buying a Bose. I think its people wanting something easy to buy, operate and conceal.

 

[lsiberian]

Probably not.

I don't think their customers know what that means or would even care.

It's not audio enthusiasts buying a Bose. I think its people wanting something easy to buy, operate and conceal.

Not entirely I know many people who own Bose theater systems. If I had gotten to them sooner they would probably have KEF systems.

Perception plays a huge role for most sites that cover this topic. AH is one of the few that dispells BS for what it is.

 

[TjMV3]

What are your thoughts? Kirk

I think your Wharfedale Opus 2 speakers and Opus Center Channel look absolutely marvelous and sound even better. That's what I think

 

[adwilk]

Probably not.

I don't think their customers know what that means or would even care.

It's not audio enthusiasts buying a Bose. I think its people wanting something easy to buy, operate and conceal.

That is exactly right, my parents would probably choose Bose before any speaker out of ignorance and would have no idea what those FR numbers mean. The only influence that might exist from publishing such numbers is in the morons in "some" of the big box shops that might wake up to it...

 

[adwilk]

AH is one of the few that dispells BS for what it is.

Why is it BS? The fact that they DONT publish BS FR numbers should let them off the hook... They simply state that it fills the room with stunning sound. Its subjective enough that it can't really be classified as misleading. I HONESTLY dont know one unhappy Bose customer. In fact just the opposite. Bose owners like it. They simply target an uneducated market segment. Let them have it. They spend a small fortune for their market share. I don't get what the problem is...

Anybody here own a Taylor Made driver? Nike shoes?

I'm sure the shoe gurus of the world would be the first to tell you that Nike shoes are overpriced, overmarketed and single handedly destroying the lives of Americans. So what?

I know first hand that Taylor Made drivers made available to retailers are made with inferior titanium than that of almost every other manufacturer but they spend the most in endorsement money and are charging premium dollar for inferior product. BUT PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH IT. Bose is NO different. Good for them for successfully moving a commodity.

 

[ozmedia]

Why is it BS? The fact that they DONT publish BS FR numbers should let them off the hook... They simply state that it fills the room with stunning sound. Its subjective enough that it can't really be classified as misleading. I HONESTLY dont know one unhappy Bose customer. In fact just the opposite. Bose owners like it. They simply target an uneducated market segment. Let them have it.

So, because the unknowing are easily duped, it is a fair marketing practice?

The reason they are so openly spoken of here is that a lot of people will look here for product info and reviews from people who actually DO know audio. It is only fair that they too get the correct info when looking for it. Some BOSE sales reps will lie to their customers about competetive products, it's all fair game.

Build crap an be prepared for people to talk about your crappy product. Build quality and those same same people will praise you for it.


I sell a high end product, however I have no problem in agreeing with someone's choice to buy Destination Audio, Paradigm, and sometimes even Klipsch too, Ive no need to lie in order to market my products, this website does enough to promote them already.

It's a moral issue; people here seem to have morals and thus will call out the liars and cheats when they rear their ugly heads. BOSE has built good products before, they just don't do it with the ACM sham.

 

[ozmedia]

FR and brand quality

Actually, in most cases, the 3rd party measured FR is usally worse (sometimes A LOT worse) than the published FR from the manufacturers.

Seem to be missing my point. These craftsmen I was speaking of publish their own, very accurate figures. In fact RBH stats, as tested by the folks at audioholics often fall short of the actual playback freqencies that Audioholics find. Meaning that the manufacturer isn't making up numbers to sell product. They KNOW people in the high-end industry won't believe a 4" bookshelf driver hits 20Hz so they don't pretend it does.

I find that you see it in low and mid-fi but not too often in the high-end market.

The White Van guys all sell $1000.00 speakers for $299.00 in the mall parking lot and they are all sold as DIGITAL with a perfect 20Hz-20KHz response.

REALITY compared: Klipsch RB-10 bookshelf speaker : 90Hz-20kHz +/-3dB

MISSIL bookshelf speakers ($39.99): Frequency response: 20-20 KHz, sensitivity: 88 dB (probably +/-25dB at least.)


Low-fi (MISSIL) is BS ,the high end (Klipsch) is more accurate and realistic.