My Bad ............Yammie 663!

[speakerman39]

Well, I mistakingly posted this thread over in the "classifieds" section. As such, thought I would post it again but in the right area. I thought I read somewhere that the new Yammie RX-V663 has the same exact amp that is used in the well received Yammie RX-V659. Am I correct or has this been confirmed? I just cant find that post or thread where I read it. If, the 663 has the same exact amp that is used in the 659, then the 663 is a super deal even at $499. Can any of you here shed a bit more light on this?

 

[mike c]

it was seth=L who said that they had the same amp section. perhaps you should do a search on seth=L's posts.

 

[speakerman39]

it was seth=L who said that they had the same amp section. perhaps you should do a search on seth=L's posts.

Okay Mike I will do just that. Thanks for posting to my inquiry. If it is true , then the 663 is an awesome deal for the money.

 

[Seth=L]

I am not 100% on this, but I am fairly certain this is the case. Looking at the specifications and other factors it seems very unlikely that they don't use the same amplifiers.

 

[speakerman39]

I am not 100% on this, but I am fairly certain this is the case. Looking at the specifications and other factors it seems very unlikely that they don't use the same amplifiers.

Thanks a bunch Seth. Would you recommend the 663 receiver then? I sent the Onkyo 705 back because it just got way too hot. My new Polk RTis sure sounded a bit too bright w/the 705. The Yammie really looks promising. Or, should I wait and get the Pioneer 1018 instead? My new ht room is pretty small-about 750 ft. ^3 with a flat 7' ceiling. You sure seem to know the receiver stuff and that is why I am asking your opinion.

 

[fredk]

FWIW, another data point.

While searching I came across a post where someone had taken the time to go through the online manuals for the 659, 661 and 663.

While the two channel output of the 659 and 663 were the same at 8ohms, at 6 and 4 ohms, the output was slightly less, on the order of 20w. The output was on the order of 40-70w greater than the 661 at 6 and 4ohms.

I don't know what this means, but this part of the spec is slightly different than the 659.

I have not found anyone that has actually reviewed the product yet and verified that this receiver is as conservatively rated at the 659 though.

Unless you are driving 4ohm speakers I think this receiver is a winner given its decent power output, DACs and decoding capabilities.

For speakers who's resistance can drop below 4ohms or speakers of lower resistance that are less efficient, the receiver may or may not be marginal.

I suspect that the 663 it is about a year ahead of the curve in terms of features/performance.

Fred

 

[fredk]

Just read your last post. 750 cubic feet is a small room. How far are you going to be sitting from your speakers?

To give you some idea of how much power you are going to need, Here is a link to a power calculator:
http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

Here is a link to a page explaining power requirements and what effect them.
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

Enjoy the reading.

Fred

 

[speakerman39]

FWIW, another data point.

While searching I came across a post where someone had taken the time to go through the online manuals for the 659, 661 and 663.

While the two channel output of the 659 and 663 were the same at 8ohms, at 6 and 4 ohms, the output was slightly less, on the order of 20w. The output was on the order of 40-70w greater than the 661 at 6 and 4ohms.

I don't know what this means, but this part of the spec is slightly different than the 659.

I have not found anyone that has actually reviewed the product yet and verified that this receiver is as conservatively rated at the 659 though.

Unless you are driving 4ohm speakers I think this receiver is a winner given its decent power output, DACs and decoding capabilities.

For speakers who's resistance can drop below 4ohms or speakers of lower resistance that are less efficient, the receiver may or may not be marginal.

I suspect that the 663 it is about a year ahead of the curve in terms of features/performance.

Fred

Hi Fred and thanks for posting. You sure seem to know a lot about receivers given that you only have 36 posts or so. Don't take this the wrong way as I was NOT being sarcastic in any way whatsoever. It seems you know what you are talking about. The reason I ask for this comparison is because I used to own a Yammie RX-V650 and then later the RX-V757. Thus, I was very impressed with the power of the 650 BUT the 757 was rather weak. Not sure what happened but the amps in both could NOT be of had been the same. The RX-V659 is no doubt a brute given the respective price range it was in. Hopefully, the RX-V663 will follow suite. Thanks for the info. Have a great Easter.

 

[speakerman39]

Just read your last post. 750 cubic feet is a small room. How far are you going to be sitting from your speakers?

To give you some idea of how much power you are going to need, Here is a link to a power calculator:
http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

Here is a link to a page explaining power requirements and what effect them.
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

Enjoy the reading.

Fred

I hope to be sitting within 5-7' from my LCD. This of course, depends on how I place my sub. The room is ONLY a tad under 7.5' wide. Just have to wait and see how everythings fits. It wont be long though and I can NOT wait.

 

[speakerman39]

I am not 100% on this, but I am fairly certain this is the case. Looking at the specifications and other factors it seems very unlikely that they don't use the same amplifiers.

Seth, how do you thing the 663 will stack up against the Pioneer 1018? Which one would you get if you owned all Polk RTi speakers. Hope you are familiar with the Polks. Feel free to elaborate as any and all information will be quite useful.

 

[fredk]

Thanks speakerman. I spent a lot of time on this and a couple of other sites reading over the last 5 months. I owe what I know to others here and at other sites that are a lot more knowledgable than I am.

Thus, I was very impressed with the power of the 650 BUT the 757 was rather weak

Its funny you should mention that. I was lucky enough to have a conversation with the chief engineer at Axiom, a guy that has been designing audio amps since the 70s. He seems to know a lot of people in the industry including some at Yamaha. He told me that they have a habit of redesigning their amps from scratch for each new series, so they tend to be all over the map.

Denon, on the other hand, tends to stick with one design and gradually improve on it, so you have a lot more consistancy from one series to the next.

Fred

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks speakerman. I spent a lot of time on this and a couple of other sites reading over the last 5 months. I owe what I know to others here and at other sites that are a lot more knowledgable than I am.


Its funny you should mention that. I was lucky enough to have a conversation with the chief engineer at Axiom, a guy that has been designing audio amps since the 70s. He seems to know a lot of people in the industry including some at Yamaha. He told me that they have a habit of redesigning their amps from scratch for each new series, so they tend to be all over the map.

Denon, on the other hand, tends to stick with one design and gradually improve on it, so you have a lot more consistancy from one series to the next.

Fred

Hi Fred. Yeah, I find this interesting regarding the amp designs. It looks like Yamaha may have given a bit too much for the money in the 659. Taking a closer look via the various manuals including the archives, the amp in the 663 should be very comparable to the one in the 659. On paper, the specs show that the 663 is a bit more powerful than the 661. Hopefully, the 663 will also do more than rated just like the 659 has done. I also agree that Denon does seem to be more consistent in their amp designs.

 

[Seth=L]

I think the RX-V663 is going to be great, but the Pioneer will have the power. The Yamaha will have an advantage as a pre/pro I think, it may also be easier to use (Pioneer typically lacks in the user interface department).

 

[speakerman39]

I think the RX-V663 is going to be great, but the Pioneer will have the power. The Yamaha will have an advantage as a pre/pro I think, it may also be easier to use (Pioneer typically lacks in the user interface department).

Yeah I agree Seth. The only thing though is that the 1018 does not weigh in as much as my former 1015 did. Yet, it is supposed to have more power. I know weight does NOT determine output but it does give some indication as to the respective capabilities. My guess is Pioneer is still not using MOSFETS like they used in the 1015. I had no trouble using the 1015 interface and got quite used to it. However, I am not too familiar with the 1016/1017 and how they stack up other than the MOSFET differences. I really did love my 1015. Too bad it did not have the new sound codecs. Otherwise, it would have been perfect for my application.

 

[Seth=L]

Yeah I agree Seth. The only thing though is that the 1018 does not weigh in as much as my former 1015 did. Yet, it is supposed to have more power. I know weight does NOT determine output but it does give some indication as to the respective capabilities. My guess is Pioneer is still not using MOSFETS like they used in the 1015. I had no trouble using the 1015 interface and got quite used to it. However, I am not too familiar with the 1016/1017 and how they stack up other than the MOSFET differences. I really did love my 1015. Too bad it did not have the new sound codecs. Otherwise, it would have been perfect for my application.

The cut in weight is probably the power transformer getting smaller. The casing of the 1015 is also heavier than the models after it. The power transformer isn't likely going to be lower rated, just more efficient.

 

[jcPanny]

Receiver power ratings

I would wait for a profession review from AH or other sources before making any claims on the amp performance of a perticular receiver. Also remember that subtle power differences (+/- 10 or 20 Watts) between models are insignificant. It takes double the power to produce a 3dB increase in SPL level and 10 times the power to double the volume.

The Yamaha RX-V663 and comparable will have plenty of for 6-8 ohm HT systems in most rooms. If you have a big room, with inefficient 4 ohm speakers, then you should consider an outboard amplifier or a flagship receiver.

Also my personal experience was that a mid range Yamaha receiver (HTR-5860) did OK driving a pair of 4 ohm speakers at moderate levels but an upgrade to an Emotiva amp provided an audible improvement.

 

[speakerman39]

The cut in weight is probably the power transformer getting smaller. The casing of the 1015 is also heavier than the models after it. The power transformer isn't likely going to be lower rated, just more efficient.

Very good point there Seth. However, MOSFETS are better than bi-polar transistors due to the faster switching capabilities thus improving upon efficiency. It is my understanding that MOSFETS run cooler and thereby improve sq. Am I correct here Seth? I am by no means an expert, but have concluded this based upon my own research on here and other various forums.

 

[speakerman39]

I would wait for a profession review from AH or other sources before making any claims on the amp performance of a perticular receiver. Also remember that subtle power differences (+/- 10 or 20 Watts) between models are insignificant. It takes double the power to produce a 3dB increase in SPL level and 10 times the power to double the volume.

The Yamaha RX-V663 and comparable will have plenty of for 6-8 ohm HT systems in most rooms. If you have a big room, with inefficient 4 ohm speakers, then you should consider an outboard amplifier or a flagship receiver.

Also my personal experience was that a mid range Yamaha receiver (HTR-5860) did OK driving a pair of 4 ohm speakers at moderate levels but an upgrade to an Emotiva amp provided an audible improvement.

Oh nothing is conclusive here. Just was looking very closely at the specs and perhaps some wishful thinking. You are correct, however, that the 663 will need to be judged by a professional reviewer before anything is substantiated. Cool name btw.

 

[Seth=L]

Very good point there Seth. However, MOSFETS are better than bi-polar transistors due to the faster switching capabilities thus improving upon efficiency. It is my understanding that MOSFETS run cooler and thereby improve sq. Am I correct here Seth? I am by no means an expert, but have concluded this based upon my own research on here and other various forums.

Mosfets are more efficient yes, sound better, not likely.

 

[PENG]

Very good point there Seth. However, MOSFETS are better than bi-polar transistors due to the faster switching capabilities thus improving upon efficiency. It is my understanding that MOSFETS run cooler and thereby improve sq. Am I correct here Seth? I am by no means an expert, but have concluded this based upon my own research on here and other various forums.

Not according to Bob Carver, on page 11 of his Sunfire amplifier whitepaper he cited that high power high performance amps in the $8,000, $10,000, $15,000 price range use Bipolars.

http://www.sunfire.com/pdf/Sunfire_Amplifier_Whitepaper.pdf