Multiroom setup help/advice

[P Rod]

Hello, this is my first post on Audioholics, very much a newbie.

I want to ad background/mood music through out my house.(living room,office, masterbath,masterbedroom,guestbed and hallways) It is a large single story home with 9 to 11ft ceilings.
I am looking at about 4-6 seperate zones with volume controls in each.
I have a surround system in my familyroom powered by a Pioneer vsx816 currently using 5.1 with some very average speakers and sub.
My question is can I use my B speaker switch to power my other speakers or do i need to ad a seperate amp. (I think i already know the answer). Any recomendations? Does Pioneer have something that would work with exsiting receiver? I also have a Pioneer Plasma TV.
For ceiling speakers I am looking at pairs of either Kilspch R 2800-c or 2650-c for the larger rooms and single 1650csm for hall and bathroom.I an still not sure on how many speakers I would need for each area. Again this is for background music only, nothing crazy. My buget is around $1000-$1400.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Separate amp and SSI speakers

P Rod,

You will need a separate multi-zone amp (but you already knew that!). Your plan has too many zones and speakers for the B speaker output to support it. In most AVRs, the B speaker outputs share the same internal amplifiers as the A speakers, making it even harder for the AVR to drive.

I would look strongly at "single stereo input (SSI) speakers" -- these are in-ceiling speakers with two tweeters and they produce the entire stereo signal.

"SSI speakers" are especially useful in hallways or any other room where a proper stereo arrangement is difficult/impossible, or the listening positions are widely spaced (i.e. no centrally located listening area). That way you get the whole music signal from the speaker closest to you, instead of predominately a Left (or R) channel and the other channel is nearly absent; because it is down the hall, or across the room.

See here for more info.

Lastly, you will want "impedance matching" volume controls to make things work correctly.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[P Rod]

Thanks XEagledriver,
My largest room living/dining combo about 13'x25' with 10.5' ceiling. Would you recommend 2 ssi speakers or 2 standard 2way's. Would 6.5" be adequate for a larger room? now i am looking at the Polk R6's reasonably priced and decent reviews. And finally do you have a recommendations for a multi room amp. Budget minded. Thanks

 

[XEagleDriver]

Some ideas

Thanks XEagledriver,
My largest room living/dining combo about 13'x25' with 10.5' ceiling.
1) Would you recommend 2 ssi speakers or 2 standard 2way's.
2) Would 6.5" be adequate for a larger room?
now i am looking at the Polk R6's reasonably priced and decent reviews.
3) And finally do you have a recommendations for a multi room amp. Budget minded.
Thanks

1) For a 25' long room, two (maybe three) SSIs placed to best serve the living and dining areas.

2) Yes 6.5" is good. That is the woofer size I use in a 20'x20' family room for similar purpose, and to good effect.

3) Multi-zone amplifiers can run a bit of money here is but one example.
Another cheaper alternative is to combine one external stereo amplifier, such as this with a Speaker selector such as this.

Although I try and stay away from Monster products (especially wire), they actually make a very good selector (I have been using for 3 years now).

XEagleDriver

 

[P Rod]

Thanks again for the good info. I bought a system yesterday before I read your last post. I ordered a BreatheAudio System 2 input 4 zone amp w/IR controls. I hope it is a decent system. Also ordered 8 SSi 6.5' speakers... Problem... After buying I read the owners manual on line and the controlers say they are rated for only 2 speakers each, 1 SSi speaker = 2 standard speakers. Hence, not enough controlers for the amount of speakers. Rookie mistake. Do you think i could put 2 speakers per controler without major issues? Would it still work? I am also using my Pioneer AV receiver as an input to my BreatheAudio receiver, will this help with extra amps to the system? I am trying to get this system installed before Christmas without having to buy more conponents. Thanks for any tips.


[

 

[XEagleDriver]

Thanks again for the good info. I bought a system yesterday before I read your last post. I ordered a BreatheAudio System 2 input 4 zone amp w/IR controls. I hope it is a decent system. Also ordered 8 SSi 6.5' speakers... Problem... After buying I read the owners manual on line and the controlers say they are rated for only 2 speakers each, 1 SSi speaker = 2 standard speakers. Hence, not enough controlers for the amount of speakers. Rookie mistake.
1) Do you think i could put 2 speakers per controler without major issues?
2) Would it still work?
3) I am also using my Pioneer AV receiver as an input to my BreatheAudio receiver, will this help with extra amps to the system?

I am trying to get this system installed before Christmas without having to buy more components.
Thanks for any tips.

P Rod,

Not familiar with the brand, but I looked it up on the web. The one I looked at was the BA-2430DA, if that is not the model you bought, please disregard the comments below:

1) The manual quote I found was;

"Each zone in the 2430 System is designed to handle a pair of 8-ohm speakers. Multiple pairs of speakers or speakers that present less than an 8-ohm load to the amplifier will cause the amplifier to overheat and shut down."

Therefore, it depends on the ohm rating of the SSI speakers. What are the speakers you bought rated at?

2) Depends on the answer to the above.

3) No, on the BA-2430DA the inputs are low-voltage, line level signals - so the source does not matter or help.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[P Rod]

XEagleDriver, Yes that is the proper receiver. The speakers are OSD Audio-ICE640tt. They are rated at 8ohms. Thanks for doing the research on the receiver, this forum will not let me post links yet.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Impedance and System Design

The speakers are actually selectable between either 16 ohm or 8 ohm. This is good and will help your plan to work!

A quote from Amazon's site: " . . . Dual 16 ohm voice coils; switch for 16 ohm stereo operation or 8 ohm mono bridged setup."
I am unclear on their use of "stereo" and "mono bridged" in the context of impedance. I am reading this as 16 ohm when in SSI mode (one speaker producing both left & right) and 8 ohm when in one channel mode (one speaker producing either left or right). I could not find an online product manual to verify my understanding, and I could be reading it "backwards" from their intended meaning--read the manual carefully.
If you are unsure after reading the manual, provide quotes from the manual in this forum for additional help.

This site might also help (reference the top two diagrams):

Assuming my read is correct, here is how to connect.

A) To get a PAIR of speakers with the impedance switch set to 16 ohm to work properly with your BA-2430, you will wire two speakers in PARALLEL.

The reason for this is, two 16 ohm speakers connected in PARALLEL present the correct 8 ohm load to the BA-2430, although the wiring will take some patience and double checking (I highly recommend a naming convention and labels).

B) To get one speaker with the speaker impedance switch set to 8 ohm to work properly wire it normally (i.e. only two wires, either left or right).

I would do a dry run "mock up" on the floor of the living room before installing in the ceiling/walls and then run an operational test.
Run it for a while and ensure the BA-2430 is not getting too hot, if it gets too hot, double check the manual, switch settings, and wiring carefully.

SYSTEM DESIGN: The BA-2430 will support no more than four zones (8 speakers total); either four zones with two parallel connected SSI speakers each,
OR four zones with two mono (left & right) speakers,
OR a combination of the two, not to exceed eight speakers (in even number combinations).

Therefore, the BA-2430 is not capable of giving you all the coverage you initially indicated.

I added some "assumed" zones and speaker numbers (in parenthesis) as a starting point for further discussion:
Zone 1 Living room (2 in SSI mode),
Zone 2 office (2 in mono mode or 2 SSI),
Zone 3 master bath (1 SSI) & master bedroom (1 SSI),
Zone 4 hallway (2 SSI),
Zone 5 guest bed (2 in mono mode or 2 SSI)

You will either have to drop or combine some zones (such as combining office and guest bed) or get a system with more zones. Each zone can only support two speakers, either 2 SSI or 2 mono mode.

XEagleDriver

 

[P Rod]

Again you have provided a wealth of helpful information. The switching to 16omhs is great. I hope thats is all I need to do, but it seems a little backwards to me. I will definitly do a dry run on the floor and wire as you suggested. The system won't arrive till next Wendsday at the soonest.

Here is my actual layout plan

zone 1- living room - 2 SSI speakers
zone 2- office 1 SSi kitchen 1 SSi
zone 3- hallways - 2 SSi speakers
zone 4 Master bedroom - 1 SSi Master Bathrom 1 SSi

If it doesn't work my next option is to return the amp and switches and buy a proper system. I hope it doesn't come to that.
Thanks again