Multiple different speakers same spot bass results

M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I notice this condition a lot. Especially since the modern idea of predetermining the MLP before the speakers are even bought and then EQ'ng the pee-pee out of it to get it all to work well enough. Again with the current penchant for creating the ultimate aesthetic over the acoustic. We used to audition speakers near field to determine their power with regard to where any audible distortions may occur, with a few default parameters relative to room size, and then audition them again at home to decide where the MLP was to be. The need for huge movie screens changed all of this and the notions of pleasing a crowd that almost never shows up on most people's movie nights. Of the 4 people I know who have a theater in their homes, they have filled all of the chairs maybe twice. Rest of the time it is the one sitting in there by 'him'self, anyway.

Recently, I mentioned this to a friend how in spite of the 8 seats in his theater room, there is one worn chair. The rest are still new condition. I merely suggested temporarily moving those to the perimeter of the room where there was next to nothing, and bringing them to their regular position when expecting company. Moving the 7 chairs up against the walls around the room improved the sound dramatically. When he re-ran his auto EQ, it canceled the majority of corrections it had inflicted on his system. Not only that, he can easily manual EQ his system to his preferences. Basically, the rest of his EQ settings end up being flat, with additional sub bass added by him. Before, you could sense his system barely hanging by an EQ'd thread. Now it's solid and the additional headroom evident across the board.
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
Edit: I should add that I am not convinced there is any significant benefit to having the speaker coupled to or de-coupled from the floor with typical construction!
Thread bump. Has Gene et all offered an opinion/position on that one, and or, any testing done? Been trying read up more on that topic to see if it's more audiophile mythology to spend $, or something actually worth paying attention to. Currently, I have rubber feet on my stands that are sand filled, holding my ATC SCM 19s sitting on a tile floor. Stands came with spikes, which I replaced with hard rubber feet. I see some use spikes into pucks similar pic, but I don't see how that prevents/alters vibrations any differently if on a hard surface like tile. I think I have best of all worlds using sand filled "mass loaded" speaker stands on rubber feet, but still researching that one due to classic audiophile OCD! ;)
 

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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thread bump. Has Gene et all offered an opinion/position on that one, and or, any testing done? Been trying read up more on that topic to see if it's more audiophile mythology to spend $, or something actually worth paying attention to. Currently, I have rubber feet on my stands that are sand filled, holding my ATC SCM 19s sitting on a tile floor. Stands came with spikes, which I replaced with hard rubber feet. I see some use spikes into pucks similar pic, but I don't see how that prevents/alters vibrations any differently if on a hard surface like tile. I think I have best of all worlds using sand filled "mass loaded" speaker stands on rubber feet, but still researching that one due to classic audiophile OCD! ;)
More Audiophile BS. Ignore it!
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
This thread has drifted away from the topic of floor bounce to the question of floor spikes and floor decoupling (or is it coupling?). I don't think the posters involved are confusing floor bounce with floor decoupling, but other readers might.

So to be clear, floor bounce is an acoustic phenomenon. It takes place after speaker cones create sound waves that move through the air.

Floor spikes prevent motion and vibration between speaker cabinets or stands and the floor. The spikes couple the cabinet or stand to the floor, especially a carpeted floor. This has nothing to do with losing bass due to floor bounce.
Is there a specific thread or article or vid you'd recommend to cut through nonsense to make smart decisions on that topic? On a search, this was the thread that came up for me. Might be a topic for Gene at al to cover in a vid. If he did, I didn't find it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thread bump. Has Gene et all offered an opinion/position on that one, and or, any testing done? Been trying read up more on that topic to see if it's more audiophile mythology to spend $, or something actually worth paying attention to. Currently, I have rubber feet on my stands that are sand filled, holding my ATC SCM 19s sitting on a tile floor. Stands came with spikes, which I replaced with hard rubber feet. I see some use spikes into pucks similar pic, but I don't see how that prevents/alters vibrations any differently if on a hard surface like tile. I think I have best of all worlds using sand filled "mass loaded" speaker stands on rubber feet, but still researching that one due to classic audiophile OCD! ;)
Maybe this would help http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Is there a specific thread or article or vid you'd recommend to cut through nonsense to make smart decisions on that topic? On a search, this was the thread that came up for me. Might be a topic for Gene at al to cover in a vid. If he did, I didn't find it.
Spikes couple to the floorboard. Rubber feet would more likely decouple. (Carpet is considered to decouple.)
Is there an audible advantage? Likely not.
The probable exception to the rule is subwoofers and suspended wood flooring, especially if the wood floor is spongy or bouncy.

At the end of the day this is largely about the transference of physical energy from room to equipment or equipment to room.
Perhaps a better way to describe the latter is the desire of some/many to isolate an amplifier. In a room full of audio equipment, including the speakers which will be creating energetic wavefronts, some (not I) will argue (I've seen it) that you want a combination of coupling the amplifier to the room for stability and decoupling it from the stand so that it can absorb and diminish any airborne vibration... the best example I've seen is a sand filled box on spikes with isolation between the box and the amp.
Does this matter in real life? Couldn't tell ya: Just reporting.

Spikes on speaker stands are about stability. You want to couple to the floor board through carpet. Example: I have 32# speakers on 36" stands on a medium-pile carpet. If I used the rubber feet, the stand would not be stable. With spikes punched through to the floor board and successfully leveled, that heavy speaker on a tall sand-filled stand now has secure footing (and a lower center of gravity due to the sand in the tubes). It is stable enough that an accidental bump will not topple it.
Does the sand affect sound transmission? Couldn't tell you. Many say the steel won't ring no matter what. A few say it will. I just know that the physics involved in the stability of the stand indicated lowering the center of gravity. :) Yes, when I tap those filled tubes with a screwdriver or such tool, they thud now instead of ring, but that really assumes that there would be enough transference of energy from a presumably well designed/built/damped speaker cabinet to excite the dense steel tubing into ringing... *shrugs

To wrap my interest in this... I have very spongy suspended wood flooring. For my Subs and Mains, I discussed the concern about room vibrations as I had witnessed my room jiggling when I walk across it. My solution was aggregate filled concrete pads (which are pretty acoustically dead (Granite Slabs are best and Maple very good)) from a custom concrete shop's scrap yard (rejected countertops). I mounted these on outriggers with adjustable spikes, and put isolation feet between the cabinet and the pad.
Prior to this, my Subs would vibrate the room. Sympathetic vibrations everywhere. Just putting them on the pads alone, on the carpet, did not significantly change anything: still a significant amount of vibration passed through to the structure. Installing the spikes and isolation feet did truly cut back on the transference of physical energy. Most vibrations ceased. This does not stop true acoustical vibration from occurring, and in some music and movies, I will still experience rattles. If I had to quantify how effective this is, I would say about 85%.
Does my Bass sound any different? No: this does not change how the Transducer in the cabinet performs its job.
And yes, it has changed the way the Transducer-Cabinet system interacts with the room/structure, so while the Transducers performance is not changed, the interaction with the room is.

The sad part is that while I agree with TLS, there is some truth behind the Audiophool myth that needs to be separated.
Coupling and Decoupling isn't going to change your sound. It's not going to give you that 1% or .01% improvement in performance. It may help you more safely install a speaker stand... Or as I described, it may help reduce some physical transference of energy from cabinet to structure.

If you really buy into the possibility that the vibration caused by a soundwave might disrupt your amplifier, then go for it. Build a stand and buy some spikes and isolation feet and have fun. If you find a way to measure the result, cool. Please share. :)

But for the rest of it, it is largely a solution in need of a problem. The problem can exist, but is much more rare that the majority of Dealers would have you believe, I think.
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
That's exactly what it gets in some "audiophile" groups.
I see that exact response on the FB groups I read/post on all the time. Any mention of the scam that is wires, cords, etc, and that's the response verbatim.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I see that exact response on the FB groups I read/post on all the time. Any mention of the scam that is wires, cords, etc, and that's the response verbatim.
Come try the Audio Bullshit group on FB for much less of that :) Ethan even posts there now and then.
 
Will Brink

Will Brink

Audioholic
Come try the Audio Bullshit group on FB for much less of that :) Ethan even posts there now and then.
Joined, though I like to poke the idiots with sticks and facts on the Audiophiles - North America group
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Joined, though I like to poke the idiots with sticks and facts on the Audiophiles - North America group
There's a couple guys who regularly needle the ANA folk....that is if they haven't been banned yet. :)
 

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