Multichannel CASD/CD/CD-R Player

[avliner]

Does the Oppo 980H really outputs raw DSD bitstreams??

Hi guys,

that's not a big deal to me for sure, but have heard some people saying that this player always downconverts DSD into PCM bitsreams...

Is that correct??
I'm sure I could never tell the difference between both, but would like to know that for sure. According to Oppo, it does, but is that really true?

Regards, Chuck

 

[Biggiesized]

No, the Oppo 980 is a transport as well. It's the only one in the product line that can output a native DSD bitstream. I think it's the cheapest product that will fulfill all your needs provided that a) you have a receiver and b) it can decode DSD.

 

[j_garcia]

No, the Oppo 980 is a transport as well. It's the only one in the product line that can output a native DSD bitstream.

The 980 is one of very few players that can do this actually.

 

[avliner]

Thanks Biggie,

wow, didn't know the 980H was a transport player...
Maybe that's why people are saying it does not output raw DSD bitstreams, though.

So the principle is the same as a BD player that needs to be decoded in the AVR, right?

Didn't know also that any AVR would have to decode DSD...well most do decode PCM, which is basically the same thing and perhaps that's the reason for all this DSD/PCM confusion.

Would like to hear more about that, though.

Regards, Chuck

 

[Biggiesized]

The 980H can both output a native DSD bitstream AND decode it to output PCM. If it does the latter, then it will downsample it to something like 88.2 kHz.

A BD player that cannot decode certain high resolution audio codecs like DTS-HD HR/MA and has to bitstream them, then acts as a transport for that digital information.

In order to retain the advantages that DSD offers, it's advisable to keep the audio information in the native DSD bitstream until it needs to be decoded for loudspeaker playback. Anytime you change DSD to PCM, you're actually altering the sound and nature of the recording. It'll still sound fantastic, but not precisely as it was meant.

 

[avliner]

Biggie,

thanks for the explanation. All clear now regarding to the 980H.

One last question on the AVR side, though:

if you got one that processes LPCM, you'll be fine for the DSD or you do need specifically on AVR that accepts the raw DSD streams?

AFAIK, the player is the only one that needs to have the DSD chipset, right?

Could you please elaborate on that either?

Regards, Chuck

 

[Pyrrho]

Greetings,

I don't think I made my request crystal clear and take full responsibility.

I am not looking for a Universal player that plays DVD or DVD-Audio.

I am looking for an Multichannel/Surround SACD player that is killer/stellar/phenomenal/the real deal!!!! The only other requirement is that it is able to also play Red Book standard 2 channel CD's as well as 2 channel SACD's.


I already have a DVD player.

Thanks,

Eddie

What sort of connection will you be using? If you have a receiver that can accept DSD via HDMI, the Oppo DV-980H would be a smart buy. There is no sense in spending extra for fancy D/A converters one isn't going to be use anyway. If you want to use analog connections, then there are better players (such as the Oppo DV-983H, as well as models from other manufacturers), though whether you will actually hear a difference between the inexpensive Oppo and better models is open to question.

 

[Pyrrho]

Biggie,

thanks for the explanation. All clear now regarding to the 980H.

One last question on the AVR side, though:

if you got one that processes LPCM, you'll be fine for the DSD or you do need specifically on AVR that accepts the raw DSD streams?

AFAIK, the player is the only one that needs to have the DSD chipset, right?

Could you please elaborate on that either?

Regards, Chuck

If you are going to use the DSD output of the Oppo DV-980H, you need something that can handle the DSD signal. But if you want a converted PCM signal, or to use the multichannel analog output, then you don't need DSD capability in your receiver.

 

[avliner]

Biggie & Pyrrho,

thanks a lot guys, for the concise explanation.

Regards, Chuck

 

[dobyblue]

Biggie,

thanks for the explanation. All clear now regarding to the 980H.

One last question on the AVR side, though:

if you got one that processes LPCM, you'll be fine for the DSD or you do need specifically on AVR that accepts the raw DSD streams?

AFAIK, the player is the only one that needs to have the DSD chipset, right?

Could you please elaborate on that either?

Regards, Chuck

The receiver needs to have a chipset with DSD-capable DAC's.

Then it's also worth noting how the receiver handles it. Does it decode it to PCM or is it capable of straight DSD>Analog conversion.

The Pioneer Elite's for example, 9x series, convert to PCM.
The Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo receivers (specific models) can convert from DSD>analog without hitting the PCM realm, using some form of "DSD Direct" mode.

You might also consider which DAC's are being used as SACD has a dynamic range of 120 dB. The PCM1796 and PCM1792 chips have dynamic range of 123dB and 132dB respectively and are both capable of DSD>analog should the manufacturer implement it.

A number of the current receivers have PCM1791A DAC's, which have a dynamic range of 113dB.

Here’s a short list, not including the Pioneer Elite receivers as they don’t support DSD>Analog, which if you’re a purist you may be looking for:

Burr-Brown PCM1791A  113dB SNR  $ 3.00/ea    Yamaha RX-V3800, Yamaha RX-V1800, Denon 3808, 4308 and DVD-2930CI
Burr-Brown PCM1796   123dB SNR  $ 6.50/ea    Onkyo 805/875/905, Denon 5308 and DVD-3930CI
Burr-Brown PCM1792A  127dB SNR  $13.00/ea    ? 
Burr-Brown PCM1792   132dB SNR  $13.65/ea    Yamaha RX-Z9 and RX-Z11(DSD1792), Denon 5805ci and DVD-5910

I would imagine given the few manufacturers being discussed here that none of them have completely garbage components in the receiver that would render differences in the DAC’s useless, but that’s just my opinion; some may disagree with more knowledge.

 

[avliner]

Dobyblue,

thanks for the additional info

 

[Biggiesized]

Dobyblue, where did you procure that short list of A/V receivers that have those specific DACs?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Dobyblue, where did you procure that short list of A/V receivers that have those specific DACs?

http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receivers/RXZ9lit.pdf

http://www.audiophile.no/Vedlegg/Nyheter/Filer/Yamaha RX-Z11.pdf

Actually, the Yamaha Z11 has the PCM-1796 and the older Z9 has the PCM-1792.

 

[dobyblue]

Dobyblue, where did you procure that short list of A/V receivers that have those specific DACs?

Most companies should send you the chip information if you ask them for it. A chunk of the info was taken from AVS, with some additional receivers chips verified by myself with the companies.

Other times guys just take their receiver apart to look around it. I don't, but I think that's how the Onkyo's were verified; their customer service wasn't too helpful.

I could have sworn I read that the Z11 was using a DSD1792 chip, but perhaps that's only the European models? It wasn't an official Yamaha spec sheet though, so I'll update that little list to move the Z11 to the PCM1796 chip.