Multi Channel Stereo

[lovinthehd]

Frankly, I usually prefer opinions of neutral listeners without their own HT. I found that once we go deep into this hobby we tend to develop a preference and focus on the sound differently.

That would be a hard opinion to gather well I'd think. I think over time we definitely develop our own preferences, that's fairly natural. There's still a lot of science to help and shape that opinion rather than going simply on brief subjective experiences....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No need to be so condescending. I can safely say I know stereo better and know how to produce a better stereo than most. My interest is 3D audio and have a system for anyone to walk in and discover what 3D audio is.

I am just asking about a simple question of subjective preference and liking when the setting set as music which in the display shows as multi channel stereo. Is that like arranging 3 pairs of stereo speakers or the DSP does more than that as the sound is not only my preference but subjectively seemed to be liked by casual listeners.

Probably, someone here could pick a movie from Netflix and give it a try under different setting and see whether you like some settings ga better than other. Anyway, this is a non ATMOS system.

I think this post is interesting. As you mentioned your interest is 3d audio. In my experience, with many systems over the years including some very nice ones, and some Frankenstein shitt. Currently one Atmos, two 5.1, and two 2.1 systems(not including the garage or my daughters) multichannel stereo never sounds 3d. In any of my current systems, Mch at best sounds like being in a car, with stereo in front and stereo in back.
The REAL immersive experience comes from the Atmos system. As usual, the mix matters, but the best ones put stuff right in the room. I mean like you move your head because you think you’re gonna get hit, or feel like there’s really water dripping on your neck.
You asked a question of “simple preference”. Mine is not for multichannel. If you prefer it, I have nothing to say against that. You like what you like! And the casual listeners you mentioned likely enjoyed it as it can definitely fill a room. I wouldn’t say that’s preference however, as they likely have never done any critical listening and don’t have a comparison. Seems like a stacked deck.
In any case, take no offense to my post. I’m only trying to illustrate that I have tried many things over the years and speak from experience.
If you like Mch then keep using it!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That would be a hard opinion to gather well I'd think. I think over time we definitely develop our own preferences, that's fairly natural. There's still a lot of science to help and shape that opinion rather than going simply on brief subjective experiences....

I’m not sure it’s fair to call someone without an HT neutral, since there’s no real point of reference. That to me seems biased towards any type of HT system as it has to be better than none!

 

[lovinthehd]

I think this post is interesting. As you mentioned your interest is 3d audio. In my experience, with many systems over the years including some very nice ones, and some Frankenstein shitt. Currently one Atmos, two 5.1, and two 2.1 systems(not including the garage or my daughters) multichannel stereo never sounds 3d. In any of my current systems, Mch at best sounds like being in a car, with stereo in front and stereo in back.
The REAL immersive experience comes from the Atmos system. As usual, the mix matters, but the best ones put stuff right in the room. I mean like you move your head because you think you’re gonna get hit, or feel like there’s really water dripping on your neck.
You asked a question of “simple preference”. Mine is not for multichannel. If you prefer it, I have nothing to say against that. You like what you like! And the casual listeners you mentioned likely enjoyed it as it can definitely fill a room. I wouldn’t say that’s preference however, as they likely have never done any critical listening and don’t have a comparison. Seems like a stacked deck.
In any case, take no offense to my post. I’m only trying to illustrate that I have tried many things over the years and speak from experience.
If you like Mch then keep using it!

Yeah I have a variety of systems (as well as multich stereo system in my van as there was no real choice otherwise in my budget at the time ). I do get the best "stereo" effect in multich with an actual surround mode vs multich stereo mode.....but I remember back in the 70s many really liked the dual Advent thing, too

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah I have a variety of systems (as well as multich stereo system in my van as there was no real choice otherwise in my budget at the time ). I do get the best "stereo" effect in multich with an actual surround mode vs multich stereo mode.....but I remember back in the 70s many really liked the dual Advent thing, too

Well, I was born in the 70’s so I’m not quite familiar with the advent thing, but I’ll look it up for sure. I have had some “quad” style rigs though. Fun for parties, or feeling like you’re at the club. I just like more accurate soundstage if I can get it.
I think I’ll go play my drums now…

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I was born in the 70’s so I’m not quite familiar with the advent thing, but I’ll look it up for sure. I have had some “quad” style rigs though. Fun for parties, or feeling like you’re at the club. I just like more accurate soundstage if I can get it.
I think I’ll go play my drums now…

It was even advertised by Advent IIRC....an inverted pair of the Original Advents. Wall of sound mini-interpretation in a way....

 

[MrBoat]

I always thought that I wasn't evolved enough because I didn't go for multichannel. My friends with HT pretty much just seemed to brush it off as incomplete or, a work in progress. They figured I was just late to the party, when truth be told, I have been listening to music for much longer, and certainly much more frequently than they ever have. They also made comments to the effect that I just didn't know what I was missing yet. I have listened to their systems before and even sat down for some movies with them. Still, I couldn't wait to get back to my own systems and ways.

Few years back when I started getting into more custom 2-channel equipment and methods, I was also doing family/friends bbq on most weekends leaving invitations pretty much open so people were here more often. They finally got curious enough to hear my speakers. That was as far as they could figure on what they were going to be listening to and that all they were going to hear was two separate speakers with subs mixed in nilly willy. None of them had ever listened near field beyond some tiny and included, pc desktop speakers. From the very first intro of the first song, you could tell it hooked them. They just stopped in their tracks. They had no idea that two speakers alone could offer any 3d or immersive effects. One friend's wife just blurted out loud to her husband with. . ."You need to fix our music."

Since then, two have added a stand alone 2-channel (one just bought $4k worth of new JBL L100 Classics for the task) system much in essence of my own, and nearfield at that. On weekends, we get to chatting online and trading music choices into the wee hrs. The thing both couples have in common with each other is they had not listened to music this much since their teen years and now they are all about it and HT has since taken the back burner.

45 years on, and I have never really felt I missed anything. Two channel has been enough to keep me hooked since the '70s. I never felt it lacked any dimension from what I had heard live and in fact prefer recorded studio more than live music.

There has been plenty of info and trends to push me towards more evolved technology but this old way just continues to deliver. I even end up slumming it with lesser quality speakers and gear than my main system at times, all of which still manage to deliver that immersive stereo image regardless.

 

[Focus SE]

I always thought that I wasn't evolved enough because I didn't go for multichannel. My friends with HT pretty much just seemed to brush it off as incomplete or, a work in progress. They figured I was just late to the party, when truth be told, I have been listening to music for much longer, and certainly much more frequently than they ever have. They also made comments to the effect that I just didn't know what I was missing yet. I have listened to their systems before and even sat down for some movies with them. Still, I couldn't wait to get back to my own systems and ways.

Few years back when I started getting into more custom 2-channel equipment and methods, I was also doing family/friends bbq on most weekends leaving invitations pretty much open so people were here more often. They finally got curious enough to hear my speakers. That was as far as they could figure on what they were going to be listening to and that all they were going to hear was two separate speakers with subs mixed in nilly willy. None of them had ever listened near field beyond some tiny and included, pc desktop speakers. From the very first intro of the first song, you could tell it hooked them. They just stopped in their tracks. They had no idea that two speakers alone could offer any 3d or immersive effects. One friend's wife just blurted out loud to her husband with. . ."You need to fix our music."

Since then, two have added a stand alone 2-channel (one just bought $4k worth of new JBL L100 Classics for the task) system much in essence of my own, and nearfield at that. On weekends, we get to chatting online and trading music choices into the wee hrs. The thing both couples have in common with each other is they had not listened to music this much since their teen years and now they are all about it and HT has since taken the back burner.

45 years on, and I have never really felt I missed anything. Two channel has been enough to keep me hooked since the '70s. I never felt it lacked any dimension from what I had heard live and in fact prefer recorded studio more than live music.

There has been plenty of info and trends to push me towards more evolved technology but this old way just continues to deliver. I even end up slumming it with lesser quality speakers and gear than my main system at times, all of which still manage to deliver that immersive stereo image regardless.

Put all the science and personal preference aside this post is to me what the hobby is about. hearing what you have never heard before both good and bad and showing others what is possible for them

I guess I'm in the very small minority of people because I do not enjoy the movie experience. The last time I watched a movie in a theater has to be well over 20 years. In that same time I have always had a stereo hooked up to my tv. It was crap, it was horribly set up and I knew it. there is not a DVD I have watched that I didn't have the remote in hand because of the massive swings in volume. A musical equivalence would be some versions of the 1812 overture. Too soft and too loud in the same production makes it unpleasant for me.

 

[davidscott]

I miss quadrophonic. Not really.

 

[TLS Guy]

Probably, I over reacted because I am tired of claims about correct way and what’s right because that’s what I learned from “here” and “there”. I learned comb filtering is bad but in reality I actually like the effect in my room from a small portion of untreated. posted the observation in the Harbeth Forum and Alan Shaw disagreed. But now I can say, I wasn’t wrong after reading Toole book where comb filtering is not always bad. … So it is probably an overreaction and misdirected comment towards Focus SE. My since apologies to Focus SE.

Speaking of multi channel stereo, I was watching Spirited on Apple TV and the phone’s notification sound came from my right side, just next to me on the sofa , I turned and looked the phone wasn’t there but then more sound just coming from left and right very close to me. I just realized that the scene was displaying multiple messages coming in. I played again the scene with other setting but still thought for this portion it was extremely realistic in multi channel.

Frankly, I usually prefer opinions of neutral listeners without their own HT. I found that once we go deep into this hobby we tend to develop a preference and focus on the sound differently.

Multichannel stereo sends all left information to the left speakers and right information to the right speakers, and mono to the center.

So depending on levels and delay, there will be one spot where you hear all channels equally at the right time. However once you move they will be all sorts of delays from sound arriving where you move to. In addition there will be a proximity effect to the nearest speaker. I just can't see anything to recommend this from an acoustic point of view.

 

[STC]

Multichannel stereo sends all left information to the left speakers and right information to the right speakers, and mono to the center.

So depending on levels and delay, there will be one spot where you hear all channels equally at the right time. However once you move they will be all sorts of delays from sound arriving where you move to. In addition there will be a proximity effect to the nearest speaker. I just can't see anything to recommend this from an acoustic point of view.

So far my observation is only done for a single sweet spot.