moving up to better speakers

[Gmoney]

I hate to sound stupid here but based on the crossover design they were called the "the new advents" with walnut cabinet..i don't recall a model number but that was in 1975..I will look into the jbls thank for the feedback..

what site were you ;monitoring for the sale you referred to..

Wise Decision, always try to do a look see hear thing first.

 

[Gmoney]

trying to find a descent audio store that has a good variety of these speakers is always the problem...hard to compare if they are not next to each other..i need to pick some of my favorite cds and bring them with me

Again wise decision, these guys that’s posting up on your thread won’t stear you wrong. Your getting some really good feed back.

 

[timmyleohoward]

morning all..currently using vintage advent speakers that i have had for many years but i am interested in stepping up my game to better speakers and I have been out of the game for a while..I have been looking at various forums and would be interested in your thoughts for moving to that next level without bankrupting me...I hear about thiel a lot..would like to hear your thoughts on both upgraded vintage speakers as well as modern speakers

thanks

I suggest waiting for a set of flagship towers, wait until the newest addition comes out then you'll get a better reciever because it's not the newest one anymore! That's how I get my high end audi
equipment...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[TLS Guy]

So about $500/speaker. Klipsch, JBL, KEF, SVS, Def Tech, potentially Martin Logan, or Bowers and Wilkins if you can find a used pair. I suppose if you have vintage speakers, most all of these, in my opinion, be a big upgrade.

Be careful. Those Advent speakers were very well balanced. A lot on that list will be a downgrade.

Op, what are you going to power them with?

 

[kevink]

i realize the speaker will work with minimal watts but my understanding that for good performance you want to be driving the speaker within its rated input..is this not right

 

[kevink]

the amp im using is a new version of the old st 120 dynakit..its a kit from vacuum tube audio 60 watts per channel but all tubes and output transformers drive speakers....its like a 60's vintage design that has been improved with some design changes and upgraded components

 

[Pogre]

i realize the speaker will work with minimal watts but my understanding that for good performance you want to be driving the speaker within its rated input..is this not right

Speaker ratings are more of a melting point than actual recommendation. Like HD said, most speakers can hit decent spl with as little a single watt. I think sensitivity specs and resistance ratings are a lot more meaningful. Provided they're accurate of course.

 

[lovinthehd]

i realize the speaker will work with minimal watts but my understanding that for good performance you want to be driving the speaker within its rated input..is this not right

You mean between a minimum and maximum wattage rating? There's really no such thing as a minimum except perhaps as a suggestion for reasonable spl with a given amp. Maximum can be exceeded easily enough, just use the volume knob appropriately and the speaker will be fine (many even recommend a doubling of wattage for the amp of the speaker's rated max). You can use a wide variety of speakers with your amp....probably to ear bleeding levels with the right speaker.

 

[Paul DS]

Why not take a look at Tekton speakers?

https://www.tektondesign.com/

 

[Pogre]

The speakers I'm working toward right now, Ascend's Sierra towers with the Raal tweeter upgrade (the bookshelf version is one of the best speakers I've heard. Period) has sensitivity of 93 dB, which means it doesn't take nearly as much power for them to play as loud as my current speakers, which are 88 dB. 5 dB difference. When you factor that it takes doubling your power for every 3 dB gained that's huge. That's why I say sensitivity and resistance specs (lower resistance speakers can be more difficult to drive) are more meaningful. Especially if you're using a lower powered amp (like a tube amp, for instance ). That difference between my current speakers and the ones I'm looking at is equivalent to doubling my amp power, then almost double it again for the same volume. Just by going with a higher sensitivity speaker.

 

[TLS Guy]

the amp im using is a new version of the old st 120 dynakit..its a kit from vacuum tube audio 60 watts per channel but all tubes and output transformers drive speakers....its like a 60's vintage design that has been improved with some design changes and upgraded components

So this is what you have for an amp.

That is not a tube amp and nothing like a tube amp in characteristics. It is an early solid state amp from the early seventies. I happen to have one. My grandson is using it now. Not sure it is working currently. I have fixed it numerous times. I was given it by a close friend after he got fed up sending it me to fix after he like you upgraded speakers.

By modern standards of the time the performance of that amp was not of the highest. Although rated to work with 4 and 8 ohm speakers and deliver 65 watts per channel, it does not like 4 ohm speakers. The clue is that power does not increase at all into a four ohm load.

You have to assume that modern speakers are going to be 4 ohm whatever the manufacturer says.

So I think if you are going to move up from the type of speakers that amp was designed for, then I think you need new electronics.

In the early 70s there really was only one amp that measured and was as stable, in fact more so, than tube amps, and that was the Quad 303.

All other transistor amps of that late sixties early 70s were not as good as tube amps, like the Dynaco Stereo 70. I also had one of those for a while, just out of curiosity and sold it.

So my advice is to leave your system as the period piece it is. If you want to upgrade, then I think honestly you need to start from scratch.

 

[kevink]

nope nothing like it.. look up vta (vacuum tube audio) st 120...all tubes...60/channel ...they are kits based on the original dynaco amps back in the day...all tubes no semiconductors and has two pretty massive output transformers.

 

[davidscott]

I hate to sound stupid here but based on the crossover design they were called the "the new advents" with walnut cabinet..i don't recall a model number but that was in 1975..I will look into the jbls thank for the feedback..

what site were you ;monitoring for the sale you referred to..

I purchased a pair of New Advents in the less expensive veneer cabinets back in 1979. I still have the printed info that came with them and the only difference that they mention is a new tweeter design that let the speaker reach higher frequencies. There was a speaker switch in the back that let you roll the highs off or play it flat. I sold them and bought some Allison 6s when O moved into a small apt.

 

[kevink]

those are the ones i got...had the woofers reformed a while back and just rebuilt the crossovers because of them had a bad resistor so thought i would rebuild while i was in there

 

[TLS Guy]

nope nothing like it.. look up vta (vacuum tube audio) st 120...all tubes...60/channel ...they are kits based on the original dynaco amps back in the day...all tubes no semiconductors and has two pretty massive output transformers.

So here is a link to the amp you have.

That actually looks like redo of the Dynaco ST 70 tube amp most likely.

So you now need a speaker with a very even impedance curve. The reason is that tube amps are high source impedance amps. So tube amps frequency response tends to follow the impedance curve of the speaker. That is why in the old tube era Raymond Cooke of KEF used to impedance compensate his crossover circuits.

Direct coupled output transistor amps are a low source impedance. So modern speakers generally have an impedance curve that looks like the "Rocky Mountains". So that means that tube amps will perform differently with different speakers.

If it is a clone of the old Dyanco stereo 70, then it should have a tapped output transformer to allow for 19, 8 and 4 ohm speakers. However that does not solve the violent swings of impedance and phase angles of most modern speakers.

Certainly my Dynaco ST 70 gave the best results with my vintage JW full range drivers, that had no crossover.

So for new speakers you should be looking at two way speakers with the simplest crossovers.

 

[Verdinut]

Dynaudio also used to impedance compensate all their passive crossover, but I don't know if they still do. If they still do, I would think this manufacturer would be pleased to answer any query and I'm convinced they are familiar with your amp, that is an advantage.

Everything depends on your planned budget. If you have never heard their speakers, Dynaudio is not a cheap product brand but is among the top loudspeaker brands worldwide. They have 2-way speakers with simple 1st order crossovers which would be easy to drive with your Dynakit amp.

If you can afford them, they would definitely be a good option. I'm sure they have several dealers for the US market.

 

[TLS Guy]

Dynaudio also used to impedance compensate all their passive crossover, but I don't know if they still do. If they still do, I would think this manufacturer would be pleased to answer any query and I'm convinced they are familiar with your amp, that is an advantage.

Everything depends on your planned budget. If you have never heard their speakers, Dynaudio is not a cheap product brand but is among the top loudspeaker brands worldwide. They have 2-way speakers with simple 1st order crossovers which would be easy to drive with your Dynakit amp.

If you can afford them, they would definitely be a good option. I'm sure they have several dealers for the US market.

They don't any more.

The Dynaudio Morel series of drivers are actually hard to design with and avoid very nasty impedance curves and phase angles. I really like those drivers and they are worth the trouble. The center three way speaker in my in wall system, you probably would not want to run from a receiver, but the right and left two ways you might get away with older or some Yamaha receivers. Most of the current crop would have to stay away.

 

[Verdinut]

They don't any more.

The Dynaudio Morel series of drivers are actually hard to design with and avoid very nasty impedance curves and phase angles. I really like those drivers and they are worth the trouble. The center three way speaker in my in wall system, you probably would not want to run from a receiver, but the right and left two ways you might get away with older or some Yamaha receivers. Most of the current crop would have to stay away.

@TLS Guy

Five years ago, I built a pair of MTM cabinets using CAW638 woofers and Airborne R4001 Air Motion Transformer tweeters. Have a look at my Avatar. It clearly shows the impedance and phase angle curves which I obtained using proper impedance compensation. I will try to get a larger image of the DATS illistration and eventually post it.

I think that it would be difficult to get better results than that. So far, I have never seen or heard of as linear curves being published on any commercial speaker.

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy

Five years ago, I built a pair of MTM cabinets using CAW638 woofers and Airborne R4001 Air Motion Transformer tweeters. Have a look at my Avatar. It clearly shows the impedance and phase angle curves which I obtained using proper impedance compensation. I will try to get a larger image of the DATS illistration and eventually post it.

I think that it would be difficult to get better results than that. So far, I have never seen or heard of as linear curves being published on any commercial speaker.

Maggies are the only speakers I know that are essentially resistive. All others are as you say.

Here is the center line I was talking about.

The mains.

The woofers, and the mid are from Morel.

Here is a pdf of some of my other speakers. The surrounds are all Dynaudio, and the rear midlines are all Dynaudio drivers.

The three way Raymond Cooke Memorial speakers, are three ways using his techniques of impedance compensation. Bass drivers are B 139s. I think for a large three way with 400 Hz and 4 KHz crossover points those impedance and phase curves are pretty good, and in practice they are an easy drive. The problem was there are over $400 dollars worth of components in the crossover!

 

[Hench4Life]

Lots of good comments here - especially based on your current system. Advents are the speaker that started me on this road over 45 years ago. They were absolutely amazing. 45 years ago. I can still see that orange tweeter behind the grill on the melamine card.

I own Thiels (2 2's), they've been so amazing I've not wanted to or needed to upgrade since the mid-nineties until recently. And even then, only because I can't get them from the ex until this lockdown business is over! You definitely want to steer clear of Thiel with your current amplification. Get it? Current? Eh?

They're not as bad as Maggies, but still require an amp that can easily drive a load. I'm guessing you might have popped in over at the AG place, there's the Thiel owner's thread and a lot of love (as there should be). They can be had for a steal these days. But, I also can't think of anything above the CS1.5 that doesn't require juice and lots of room. And, probably some restoration work.

JBL's are an excellent recommendation, almost anything can drive them. TBH, it's almost impossible to go wrong with modern speakers, I doubt there's anything you could pick that wouldn't be an obvious improvement over the Advents. But I'm thinking you might want to consider upgrading across the board if possible.

I'd bet a nickel right now we'll be seeing some serious discount sales taking place very soon as this lockdown continues. Some people will be liquidating stock just so they can keep the lights on. Also keep an eye on the used market - people who've not been working for a while, or have extra components will probably be trying to come up with a little extra cash.