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[ARES24]

Hello All
It's been a while since I have been surfing around here but I have been somewhat distracted building a house Due to the fact that I am at the point where I need to make decisions for my theater speakers. I need to determine what speakers I am going to have in the ceiling for the Atmos speakers because I will be drywalling in a couple weeks.

To rehash theater details;
7.2.4
Room dimensions, 28'6"L x 12'W x 7"6"H
AT screen and projector (tbd)
Front 3 hidden behind screen (thinking er18's and elusive 1099)
Surround speakers (er18's, volt10 from diysoundgroup)
Ceiling speakers (I have looked at RBH and the volt series)
2 transmission line sub woofers that I am going to pester TLS about

The ceiling speakers are my main concern at this point, what suggestions or concerns are out there? Given that they are a not as responsible for the sound output I am leaning for more budget options.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello All
It's been a while since I have been surfing around here but I have been somewhat distracted building a house Due to the fact that I am at the point where I need to make decisions for my theater speakers. I need to determine what speakers I am going to have in the ceiling for the Atmos speakers because I will be drywalling in a couple weeks.

To rehash theater details;
7.2.4
Room dimensions, 28'6"L x 12'W x 7"6"H
AT screen and projector (tbd)
Front 3 hidden behind screen (thinking er18's and elusive 1099)
Surround speakers (er18's, volt10 from diysoundgroup)
Ceiling speakers (I have looked at RBH and the volt series)
2 transmission line sub woofers that I am going to pester TLS about

The ceiling speakers are my main concern at this point, what suggestions or concerns are out there? Given that they are a not as responsible for the sound output I am leaning for more budget options.

I think for that application you can make a good case for using a good full range drive unit.

For my theater I have just installed 4 of my vintage Jordan Watts modules. They are really good speakers.

Here is one installed before putting on the grill plate.

These are the other three. All totally installed now.

The direct descendants of those driver are the Mark Audio drivers.

These would be good value.

If you want one a little more sensitive and powerful then use this one.

Put this unit in a well damped sealed box, 0.2 cu.ft.

That is a much better solution than tweeters placed in front of the cone.

 

[ARES24]

I think for that application you can make a good case for using a good full range drive unit.

For my theater I have just installed 4 of my vintage Jordan Watts modules. They are really good speakers.

Here is one installed before putting on the grill plate.

These are the other three. All totally installed now.

The direct descendants of those driver are the Mark Audio drivers.

These would be good value.

If you want one a little more sensitive and powerful then use this one.

Put this unit in a well damped sealed box, 0.2 cu.ft.

That is a much better solution than tweeters placed in front of the cone.

The theater is being set up a separates system and I am thinking about going with an emotiva 11 ch amp. That amp puts out 65watts rms into 8 ohms. I understand that there shouldn't be excessive power into the Atmos speakers but do you think this could be a problem?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The theater is being set up a separates system and I am thinking about going with an emotiva 11 ch amp. That amp puts out 65watts rms into 8 ohms. I understand that there shouldn't be excessive power into the Atmos speakers but do you think this could be a problem?

Depends on what you mean, “excessive power”. That will be decided by the speaker(and volume), and what it will handle. most IC/IW speakers can handle a good amount. I don’t know that amp, but 65x11 seems pretty weak, and dubious.

 

[ryanosaur]

I might not be the best person to talk about this, but those Emo Amps aren't a great choice. To be fair, they do tell you the expected power per channel in a certain manner, but I cannot think of a good reason to invest in a product that gives you those specs across your rig.
Consider, please...
The XPA Mono-blades will give you 200w/ch with 7 channels driven, assuming all seven channels are mono-blades installed in their amp. They don't even touch what happens when you start stacking their stereo modules. 65w/ch, 2 ch driven into 8 ohms at .1% THD...
Is that one Amp Module? 7 Amp Modules?
I talked to them last year on several occasions... AND NEVER GOT AN ANSWER.

I bought Outlaw Monoblocks instead.

I'm not telling you to not pursue this. Rather I am telling you to ask the right questions. Putting 11 channels of amplification in 1 chassis does not seem very efficacious to me. Hell, even my 9 channels of amplification that my Marantz AVR offers leaves me scratching my head! Sure, for rears and Atmos... 6 channels is well within its capability, but... ???

Regardless, it is your System and your Ducats. Please just consider the options, and whether 8 channels at (maybe) 65w per channel is good for you.

Happy hunting!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I might not be the best person to talk about this, but those Emo Amps aren't a great choice. To be fair, they do tell you the expected power per channel in a certain manner, but I cannot think of a good reason to invest in a product that gives you those specs across your rig.
Consider, please...
The XPA Mono-blades will give you 200w/ch with 7 channels driven, assuming all seven channels are mono-blades installed in their amp. They don't even touch what happens when you start stacking their stereo modules. 65w/ch, 2 ch driven into 8 ohms at .1% THD...
Is that one Amp Module? 7 Amp Modules?
I talked to them last year on several occasions... AND NEVER GOT AN ANSWER.

I bought Outlaw Monoblocks instead.

I'm not telling you to not pursue this. Rather I am telling you to ask the right questions. Putting 11 channels of amplification in 1 chassis does not seem very efficacious to me. Hell, even my 9 channels of amplification that my Marantz AVR offers leaves me scratching my head! Sure, for rears and Atmos... 6 channels is well within its capability, but... ???

Regardless, it is your System and your Ducats. Please just consider the options, and whether 8 channels at (maybe) 65w per channel is good for you.

Happy hunting!

That’s exactly what I said. Only with a LOT more words. Lol!!


Yeah. What Ryan said.

 

[ryanosaur]

Only with a LOT more words. Lol!!

Yup... Not proud, that I stared before, and finished after, you did.
But if it helps our friend... one way or the other... It was worth it.

 

[Truthslayer]

I might not be the best person to talk about this, but those Emo Amps aren't a great choice. To be fair, they do tell you the expected power per channel in a certain manner, but I cannot think of a good reason to invest in a product that gives you those specs across your rig.
Consider, please...
The XPA Mono-blades will give you 200w/ch with 7 channels driven, assuming all seven channels are mono-blades installed in their amp. They don't even touch what happens when you start stacking their stereo modules. 65w/ch, 2 ch driven into 8 ohms at .1% THD...
Is that one Amp Module? 7 Amp Modules?
I talked to them last year on several occasions... AND NEVER GOT AN ANSWER.

I bought Outlaw Monoblocks instead.

I'm not telling you to not pursue this. Rather I am telling you to ask the right questions. Putting 11 channels of amplification in 1 chassis does not seem very efficacious to me. Hell, even my 9 channels of amplification that my Marantz AVR offers leaves me scratching my head! Sure, for rears and Atmos... 6 channels is well within its capability, but... ???

Regardless, it is your System and your Ducats. Please just consider the options, and whether 8 channels at (maybe) 65w per channel is good for you.

Happy hunting!

I agree with ryanosaur. Without getting into Emotiva's quality and bashing them, just avoid their products if at all possible. Can't tell you how many people I know who have tried their stuff only to end up complaining and ditching it a short time later. And the usual excuse was they read reviews by people saying how good they were, so they must be ok. Only to be disappointed. It's your money, and aggravation, so take the chance if you want.

 

[ARES24]

Quick surfing around, what do you think about these. They are a multi driver unit, makes the speaker simpler in some ways doesn't it?

 

[ARES24]

I have only started considering amps at this point, but almost all of the amps I have seen are at over 50rms so I think my concern is still valid
As a side note, I have an emo amp and am quite happy with it thus far.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Quick surfing around, what do you think about these. They are a multi driver unit, makes the speaker simpler in some ways doesn't it?

I own, and LOVE those speakers. Highly recommended. I also power them with my Marantz 6012.

Also, just a half baked hunch, I think emos quality MAY have taken a hit once they went brick and mortar. I feel like they couldn’t scale and are resting on laurels. I have no factual basis. Just a hunch.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yup... Not proud, that I stared before, and finished after, you did.
But if it helps our friend... one way or the other... It was worth it.

Agreed my brother.

 

[TLS Guy]

The theater is being set up a separates system and I am thinking about going with an emotiva 11 ch amp. That amp puts out 65watts rms into 8 ohms. I understand that there shouldn't be excessive power into the Atmos speakers but do you think this could be a problem?

I think 65 watts is more than enough power. Ceiling speakers are going to have to be crossed over fairly high as you won't get much bass out of them. Probably around 120 Hz is a good place to cross. I highly doubt there will be much power demand on the Atmos ceiling speakers. I was planning on using 45 watts per channel, but suspect 15 or 20 would be fine. In the event I'm going with 100 watts per speaker. However that is not because it is required. I was laying out my amp case today, and the Quad 405-2 are a much better fit for the space as they can be stacked. There is not enough room for two side by side 303s in the amp case.

I having to place 9 two channel amps in the case, giving a total of 3,900 watts all amps driven. However because some loads are 8 ohm and others 4 ohm, that actual power available will be 3,100 watts. Of course I'm sure nothing like that amount of power will ever be drawn, so the whole system will be nice and relaxed and well out of clipping range.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think 65 watts is more than enough power.

Agreed. For the Rear Surrounds and any Atmos, that amount of power should be more than sufficient. For my own purposes, I'm going to allow my AVR to run those last 6-channels while I have monoblocks on my Mains, Center, and Surrunds.

I'm not knocking the power rating so much as I am questioning how Emo's 11-Ch amp by behave overall. (And to be clear, not meaning to knock Emo, as I have no experience with their product... just unsatisfactory experience getting answers about their Amplifiers and how the Mono and Stereo Amp Modules actually behave and perform.)

@ARES24 , which Emo Amplifier are you currently using? Is it in need of replacing? Are you just hoping for sake of space and budget to find a solution like that 11-Ch option?

My vote would be to look at a good quality amplifier for your front 3 as a stand alone unit if you want... or throw in the Surrounds with a good 5-channel unit. then put the rears and Atmos on a separate unit. IMO you will likely get better quality amplification that way, and better results for your whole rig. Just using Emo as the example, I think 3-4 of the BasX A150 amps coupled with either the XPA-3 or XPA-5 would give you significantly better results.
Roughly $2540 will get you the XP5 plus 3 A-150s with their sale, or roughly $2410 will get you the XPA-3 and 4 A-150s. The XPA 11 is $2100. *shrugs

Just an idea. Again, it is your system and money.

 

[ARES24]

I think 65 watts is more than enough power. Ceiling speakers are going to have to be crossed over fairly high as you won't get much bass out of them. Probably around 120 Hz is a good place to cross. I highly doubt there will be much power demand on the Atmos ceiling speakers. I was planning on using 45 watts per channel, but suspect 15 or 20 would be fine. In the event I'm going with 100 watts per speaker. However that is not because it is required. I was laying out my amp case today, and the Quad 405-2 are a much better fit for the space as they can be stacked. There is not enough room for two side by side 303s in the amp case.

I having to place 9 two channel amps in the case, giving a total of 3,900 watts all amps driven. However because some loads are 8 ohm and others 4 ohm, that actual power available will be 3,100 watts. Of course I'm sure nothing like that amount of power will ever be drawn, so the whole system will be nice and relaxed and well out of clipping range.

My concern was not that there is enough power to run the back/ atmos speakers but that there would be too much power. The speakers you suggested are rated 45rms. I have young boys that I assume will act like me in their teenage years and be morally required to crank the volume... Just hoping to have a bit of safety

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

My concern was not that there is enough power to run the back/ atmos speakers but that there would be too much power. The speakers you suggested are rated 45rms. I have young boys that I assume will act like me in their teenage years and be morally required to crank the volume... Just hoping to have a bit of safety

You can set a MV limit. Works for me.

 

[ARES24]

Agreed. For the Rear Surrounds and any Atmos, that amount of power should be more than sufficient. For my own purposes, I'm going to allow my AVR to run those last 6-channels while I have monoblocks on my Mains, Center, and Surrunds.

I'm not knocking the power rating so much as I am questioning how Emo's 11-Ch amp by behave overall. (And to be clear, not meaning to knock Emo, as I have no experience with their product... just unsatisfactory experience getting answers about their Amplifiers and how the Mono and Stereo Amp Modules actually behave and perform.)

@ARES24 , which Emo Amplifier are you currently using? Is it in need of replacing? Are you just hoping for sake of space and budget to find a solution like that 11-Ch option?

My vote would be to look at a good quality amplifier for your front 3 as a stand alone unit if you want... or throw in the Surrounds with a good 5-channel unit. then put the rears and Atmos on a separate unit. IMO you will likely get better quality amplification that way, and better results for your whole rig. Just using Emo as the example, I think 3-4 of the BasX A150 amps coupled with either the XPA-3 or XPA-5 would give you significantly better results.
Roughly $2540 will get you the XP5 plus 3 A-150s with their sale, or roughly $2410 will get you the XPA-3 and 4 A-150s. The XPA 11 is $2100. *shrugs

Just an idea. Again, it is your system and money.

Right now I am using a 3 channel for the front 3 channels and the reciever runs the other 4. This unit is going to stay where it is now and that room will become a general use room. (Kids and stuff)
The new theater room is going to be a different animal, my new hobby project.
The 11 channel emo amp was something that I saw in my junk mail and thought 'neat'. I don't care about how compact the amps are within reason. With the 11 channels in the theater, 2 subs to amp, and 10 other channels to power(whole home audio) I figured I would need some space so the closet below the stairs is going to house the amps in whatever config required.
But I think I am getting ahead of myself, ceiling speakers!

 

[ARES24]

I think I am going to go with the rsl c34e speakers for my atmos speakers.
I am going to install them in a box in the ceiling. My final design requires them to protrude from the ceiling drywall 3/4".
What volume box should I go with?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think I am going to go with the rsl c34e speakers for my atmos speakers.
I am going to install them in a box in the ceiling. My final design requires them to protrude from the ceiling drywall 3/4".
What volume box should I go with?

I would talk to Joe at rsl about volume. They would know better than anybody. But I don’t think they are designed for one, unless you’re trying to avoid transferring sound to other rooms. Like most, I think they’re an IB design. In stalled my c34e’s in a scissor truss attic(pia). I just pushed up the plastic vapor barrier and kinda stretched it out. Install was fine.

 

[ARES24]

Ok then, I will simply install a front baffle so to speak. The area behind will be carved out of the foam as a guesstimate for now and then if i decide to seal it in I can later.