More Studios w/ DTS-HD MA than TrueHD?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

WARNER BROTHERS
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=5150

PARAMOUNT
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=4735

FOX
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=4365

DISNEY/BUENA VISTA
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1190

LIONSGATE
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=5425

MGM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=3709

UNIVERSAL
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=5280

Hey, doesn't SONY own MGM or something?

 

[jostenmeat]

According to bluray stats, some of the breakdown numbers by titles.

19.97% LPCM
32.29% DTS MA
27.10% TrueHD

I think the side point I want to make is that even if there were many more studios who adopt a certain codec, there could* still be a rather even distribution because some studios simply release many more movies.

For instance, Warner has 17.49% of the titles out. This proportion is about as large as Lionsgate, MGM, Disney, and Universal . . . combined (at the grand total of 19.03%).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to bluray stats, some of the breakdown numbers by titles.

19.97% LPCM
32.29% DTS MA
27.10% TrueHD

I think the side point I want to make is that even if there were many more studios who adopt a certain codec, there could* still be a rather even distribution because some studios simply release many more movies.

For instance, Warner has 17.49% of the titles out. This proportion is about as large as Lionsgate, MGM, Disney, and Universal . . . combined (at the grand total of 19.03%).

And if Warner is moving to DTS-HD (Watchmen), the percentage of TrueHD will surely shrink.

Wasn't Warner the Studio that really killed HD DVD?

Of course, I'm not saying that this is the same battle as BD vs HD DVD.

Rumor has it that Sony might be pondering moving towards DTS-HD. If this is true, that leaves only Dreamworks & New Line Cinema as the only 2 major studios to support TrueHD.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2749

 

[GlocksRock]

I hope sony goes with dts.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I hope sony goes with dts.

Me too.

And then DreamWorks will hopefully go DTS-HD MA. You know how Steven Speilberg loves DTS over Dolby! That's why his "Close Encounter" BD is in DTS-HD MA. All his Jurasic Park movies are also in DTS.

And then maybe Transformers will be in DTS-HD MA and I can get some consistent BASS for once!!!

 

[Biggiesized]

They're using DTS-HD MA because it's cheaper. The encoding suite is roughly $1500 while Dolby's TrueHD encoder is around $8000.

 

[GlocksRock]

This is so nice to see, I think that a lot of people thought that dts may cease to exist when blu ray came out since PCM and TrueHD offer lossless there would be no need for dts-hd ma, but I guess they found a way to prosper. I prefer dts over pcm and trueHD if for no other reason that I like the name better.

 

[Hicks]

I've always preferred DTS mixes to Dolby myself, they seem to offer more immersive surround effects, although it could be my imagination I suppose.

I believe Spielberg provided much of the start up money for DTS back in the 90s.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DTS rules, baby!

Dolby just makes no sense.

$8000 for Dolby vs $1500 for DTs, and DTS just sounds better!

And the DTS-HD MA Logo definitely looks 200% better!

 

[allargon]

And if Warner is moving to DTS-HD (Watchmen), the percentage of TrueHD will surely shrink.

Wasn't Warner the Studio that really killed HD DVD?

Of course, I'm not saying that this is the same battle as BD vs HD DVD.

Rumor has it that Sony might be pondering moving towards DTS-HD. If this is true, that leaves only Dreamworks & New Line Cinema as the only 2 major studios to support TrueHD.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2749

Watchmen is a strange case if it's DTS-HD. Wasn't Watchmen a joint with Fox? If so, that could be why.

New Line was always DTS-HD MA until they disappeared and folded into Warner.

You guys are giving DTS-HD MA too much credit. #1, it sounds the exact same as Dolby TrueHD. #2, way more players support Dolby TrueHD than DTS-HD MA.

DTS-HD MA Studios
Fox
Universal
Lionsgate
Magnolia (not really major)
MGM (as Fox distributes their titles)
Disney and Miramax lean towards DTS-HD MA

Dolby TrueHD Studios
Paramount and Dreamworks
Warner
Sony and Columbia
Genius/Weinstein

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here are some facts.

Most receivers have both DD & DTS decoders, but many do not have TrueHD & DTS-HD.

When you play a 5.1 DTS-HD movie on a receiver without a DTS-HD decoder, you are guaranteed to get 5.1 DTS.

When you play a 5.1 TrueHD movie on a receiver without a TrueHD decoder, you are NOT guaranteed to get 5.1 DD -- unless that movie also contains a SEPARATE 5.1 DD track.

And if the implementation of TrueHD costs a lot more than DTS-HD, what's the point, especially in the future?

 

[Pyrrho]

Me too.

And then DreamWorks will hopefully go DTS-HD MA. You know how Steven Speilberg loves DTS over Dolby! That's why his "Close Encounter" BD is in DTS-HD MA. All his Jurasic Park movies are also in DTS.

And then maybe Transformers will be in DTS-HD MA and I can get some consistent BASS for once!!!

DTS rules, baby!

Dolby just makes no sense.

$8000 for Dolby vs $1500 for DTs, and DTS just sounds better!

And the DTS-HD MA Logo definitely looks 200% better!

Since DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD are both lossless formats, they should sound the same, shouldn't they? Unless, of course, people mix them differently, and then the problem is the mix, not the format.

 

[Pyrrho]

Here are some facts.

Most receivers have both DD & DTS decoders, but many do not have TrueHD & DTS-HD.

When you play a 5.1 DTS-HD movie on a receiver without a DTS-HD decoder, you are guaranteed to get 5.1 DTS.

When you play a 5.1 TrueHD movie on a receiver without a TrueHD decoder, you are NOT guaranteed to get 5.1 DD -- unless that movie also contains a SEPARATE 5.1 DD track.

And if the implementation of TrueHD costs a lot more than DTS-HD, what's the point, especially in the future?

In the future, everyone will have the new decoders. So what makes the most sense would be whichever one is the most compact, so that more other data can be fit on the disc as needed. Otherwise, there is no point in either, and the discs may as well just have uncompressed PCM. Probably, if I were running a studio, I would put everything out with uncompressed PCM and not pay for either Dolby or dts. They are not really needed anymore.

 

[allargon]

Here are some facts.

Most receivers have both DD & DTS decoders, but many do not have TrueHD & DTS-HD.

When you play a 5.1 DTS-HD movie on a receiver without a DTS-HD decoder, you are guaranteed to get 5.1 DTS.

When you play a 5.1 TrueHD movie on a receiver without a TrueHD decoder, you are NOT guaranteed to get 5.1 DD -- unless that movie also contains a SEPARATE 5.1 DD track.

No... That's if you have a receiver that can't accept PCM and a player that can't decode. Moreover, many players that can decode have multichannel outs. So, decoding in the receiver still isn't necessary. (Moreover, it's not even preferred by many of us.)

In the future, everyone will have the new decoders. So what makes the most sense would be whichever one is the most compact, so that more other data can be fit on the disc as needed. Otherwise, there is no point in either, and the discs may as well just have uncompressed PCM. Probably, if I were running a studio, I would put everything out with uncompressed PCM and not pay for either Dolby or dts. They are not really needed anymore.

Pyrrho, uncompressed PCM wastes a LOT of space. For a BD-50 with minimal extras that's no big deal. However, for a BD-25, space is at a premium, so Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (or their high res lossless counterparts, DD+ and DTS-HD HR) would be preferable.

I prefer Dolby TrueHD not just since more players support it but for DRC/night mode. Yes, higher end receivers and processors will implement DRC on anything. But most players and receivers will only implement DRC on the Dolby formats. For regular movie watching, I don't do DRC. However, when watching a movie at night while my wife's asleep, it's very preferable.

 

[Pyrrho]

...

In the future, everyone will have the new decoders. So what makes the most sense would be whichever one is the most compact, so that more other data can be fit on the disc as needed. Otherwise, there is no point in either, and the discs may as well just have uncompressed PCM. Probably, if I were running a studio, I would put everything out with uncompressed PCM and not pay for either Dolby or dts. They are not really needed anymore.

Pyrrho, uncompressed PCM wastes a LOT of space. For a BD-50 with minimal extras that's no big deal. However, for a BD-25, space is at a premium, so Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (or their high res lossless counterparts, DD+ and DTS-HD HR) would be preferable.

I prefer Dolby TrueHD not just since more players support it but for DRC/night mode. Yes, higher end receivers and processors will implement DRC on anything. But most players and receivers will only implement DRC on the Dolby formats. For regular movie watching, I don't do DRC. However, when watching a movie at night while my wife's asleep, it's very preferable.

You have the names wrong. Dolby TrueHD is lossless; the high resolution "lossy" format from Dolby is Dolby Digital Plus. See:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/tech_overview.html

DTS-HD MA is lossless; the high resolution "lossy" format from dts is DTS-HD HRA (High Resolution Audio). See:

http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats/DTS_Audio_Formats.aspx

http://www.dts.com/DTS_Audio_Formats/DTS-HD_High_Resolution_Audio.aspx
(From this link, you can click on "DTS-HD Brochure", in the box labeled "RELATED RESOURCES" for a pdf that is clearer in what it says.)

It is clearly expressed at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_(sound_system)


PCM takes up more space than either the lossless compressed Dolby and DTS, as you say, and as I already stated myself in the post you quoted. So, the point of the lossless compressed formats (other than "night mode") from either Dolby or DTS is if the extra space on the disc is needed for something else. From a sound standpoint, they are not needed at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree that all Sound should be PCM because you don't even have to decode anything and that would decrease cost.

I think that a 50G BD disc is big enough for every movie to have PCM sound.

For example, "Red Cliff I" & "Red Cliff II" BD are both ~ 2.5 hrs long each, yet both discs come with PCM, TrueHD, & DTS-HD MA!!!

So there is plenty of room for all discs to have PCM.

Yeah, PCM, TrueHD, & DTS-HD MA all sound the same. When I compared all three on the SAME disc (Red Cliff I & II), the only difference was the sound level (dB).

However, it just seems to me personally that DTS-HD BD movies in general have more surround ambience and better bass than a lot of TrueHD BD movies.

DTS-HD MA has that DTS-core, which makes it BACKWARD compatible.

TrueHD is not BACKWARD compatible with DD.

 

[GlocksRock]

I agree that all Sound should be PCM because you don't even have to decode anything and that would decrease cost.

I think that a 50G BD disc is big enough for every movie to have PCM sound.

For example, "Red Cliff I" & "Red Cliff II" BD are both ~ 2.5 hrs long each, yet both discs come with PCM, TrueHD, & DTS-HD MA!!!

So there is plenty of room for all discs to have PCM.

Yeah, PCM, TrueHD, & DTS-HD MA all sound the same. When I compared all three on the SAME disc (Red Cliff I & II), the only difference was the sound level (dB).

However, it just seems to me personally that DTS-HD BD movies in general have more surround ambience and better bass than a lot of TrueHD BD movies.

DTS-HD MA has that DTS-core, which makes it BACKWARD compatible.

TrueHD is not BACKWARD compatible with DD.

What do you mean TrueHD is not backward compatible with DD? I can get the standard DD information from a TrueHD track.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/DPlus_TrueHD_whitepaper.pdf

 

[jostenmeat]

What do you mean TrueHD is not backward compatible with DD? I can get the standard DD information from a TrueHD track.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/DPlus_TrueHD_whitepaper.pdf

Where does it say it's inherently backward compatible? The THD stuff is at the very end of the link, and previous to that seems to be mostly on Plus. Anyways, you most likely get DD because they simply include that mix on your BD.

At least for the first year of watching BDs, MA is nice because there's nothing to select. Most of the time, it's defaulted, whereas with TrueHD, it rarely was/is. Many DTSMA discs don't even have an audio menu for this, I think* they might include all of the Criterion titles, Band of Brothers, Wall-E, etc. Load the disc, hit play. I also don't have to worry about disengaging auto flagged DRC with TrueHD titles, and I HATE that. Now, my receiver doesn't "remember" the off setting, so I have to do it every time, and it just sucks to have to start the actual title, disengage, skip back to beginning. You can blame Onkyo, but from my perspective, I like how MA is easier.

I've never preferred the autoflagged version. One person I respect seemed to prefer it for TDK, but I sure don't. Then you have titles like Iron Man, where it's just gawd awful.

 

[jostenmeat]

Otherwise, there is no point in either, and the discs may as well just have uncompressed PCM. Probably, if I were running a studio, I would put everything out with uncompressed PCM and not pay for either Dolby or dts. They are not really needed anymore.

Pyrrho, uncompressed PCM wastes a LOT of space. For a BD-50 with minimal extras that's no big deal. However, for a BD-25, space is at a premium, so Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (or their high res lossless counterparts, DD+ and DTS-HD HR) would be preferable.

Yeah, PCM does waste a lot of space. There are those who think waste is just waste, and others who would greatly welcome the further decompression of video. OTOH, I've been noting the changing proportion of 25Gb vs 50Gb, and it has inexorably been moving towards the larger discs. When I first started watching, maybe 1.5 yr ago, I think that there might have been barely more 25GBs than 50. Today it's 61.6% 50GB discs.

 

[avliner]

IIRC, I've read somewhere that the audible difference between both codecs is due to the fact that DTS has always been mastered at + 3db, if compared to TrueHD.

Someone could confirm whether the above is true?

Regards, Chuck