More on "Auto Tune" software

[Sheep]

Wow. Hot topic.

No offense, but most of the posts are still dealing primarily with hero-worship:

"It's more fun to work with, and it's a real joy to watch them do their thing. Someone that needs band-aids to be passable is a sham on the industry, and an insult to other musicians."

"Damn, heaven forbid should some moron be denied the right to do something they can't."

"More like Tools of repression, repression of mistakes, failures, and images."

I'm no huge fan of modern music (and listen to as little as possible), but I think you're letting the music from the last 50 years off the hook with this gloom-and-doom auto-tune forecast. I'm not so sure that the concerts from the last several years were as stellar as we're all remembering. How many of us can claim that the bulk of the concerts we've seen were as good as the album performances?

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or pick a fight, and I'm hardly offended. In fact, I feel like I'm one of the few here that's NOT outraged. I guess I simply don't care how "talented" an artist is, since it seems like most of the real musical decisions are being (and have been made) by the producers, recording engineers, and composers. I'm interested in the final product: what I hear on the album. That it would not sound the same in concert does not bother me because I consider the two seperate entities.

I do not care whether or not the artist had to, at any point, "get it right" if the final product is good music nonetheless (though it often is not) - I'm interested in the music, not the artist.

And, for what it's worth, I'm not sure we're really picking fair fights. I think we're rather pitting the best of the last several decades to make points against this one. Obviously Sinatra is a better musician than T-Pain.

::cue flaming::

I'm in a bit of a rush so I'll just pick one thing to reply to, and get the rest later.

If someone isn't really good at what they do, but in the end have produced a passable product, would you still pay the same premium for the product? I can fall back on my mechanic analogy and say the Dealership will do it right, with OEM parts, while Franks Automotive could hack the crap out of it with RTV and jobber parts. Car still works, but I'd rather own the Dealership work, and pay the extra to know it's proper.

People that suck, should be paid like they suck. Don't even get me started with rap.

SheepStar

 

[Phil Taylor]

People that suck, should be paid like they suck. Don't even get me started with rap.

SheepStar

Yo - quotin Kanye West - "How could you be so HEARTLESSSSSSS?"


{Yes - Auto Tune overusage sucks and so does Kanye}

 

[Schupo]

You're altering the argument. If you create music you are playing an instrument of some sort. This has nothing to do with relying on a device to fix your mistakes.

I choose to value the product and part of the product is being able to perform LIVE and many cannot in this day and age because the sound studio hides all their flaws with the mantra of "We'll fix it in production."

Even before auto-tune, as has been pointed out, producers still cut and pasted performances. The difference is that the artist at one point or another had to do it right. That is no longer a necessity and it shows in the quality of live shows. If the expectation is to only "get it close" then it will never be right.

I wish I got the memo when you were promoted to King of Music.

You can't create distorted guitar with what a guitar originally was. You need special equipment to make that sound. You can't make a saw wave with what a keyboard originally was. You need special equipment to make that sound. Delay? Sorry, you're cheating. That's not real music. Reverb? Hope that's coming out of the room, mister! Otherwise you're CHEATING!

 

[pzaur]

I wish I got the memo when you were promoted to King of Music.

You can't create distorted guitar with what a guitar originally was. You need special equipment to make that sound. You can't make a saw wave with what a keyboard originally was. You need special equipment to make that sound. Delay? Sorry, you're cheating. That's not real music. Reverb? Hope that's coming out of the room, mister! Otherwise you're CHEATING!

Did you read the thread? Apparently not. Most pop musicians use it to hide their shortcomings as singers. That's the usage I don't agree with.
Please point to any place where I harp on the usage of auto-tune for creating special effects. Totally different. Read before you type.

-pat

 

[Schupo]

Did you read the thread? Apparently not. Most pop musicians use it to hide their shortcomings as singers. That's the usage I don't agree with.
Please point to any place where I harp on the usage of auto-tune for creating special effects. Totally different. Read before you type.

-pat

How many pop musicians do you know?

 

[pzaur]

How many pop musicians do you know?

I've heard enough live to know that they have a hard time singing in tune. It doesn't matter if I "know" them or not.

-pat

 

[Schupo]

I've heard enough live to know that they have a hard time singing in tune. It doesn't matter if I "know" them or not.

-pat

There are some pop musicians who use auto-tune because they can't sing, but this doesn't represent any majority.

If you've spent time in a studio with pop acts, you'd know that time is expensive. When you don't have a lot of time to work on vocals, you take the best track and produce it using plugins like autotune minimally, in a manner which is entirely transparent, to correct mistakes and save tons of money. If you want to blame anything for the increasing use of production techniques like that, then blame the business end of the industry.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that music is about what you hear, not what's behind the scenes. For example,

If someone isn't really good at what they do, but in the end have produced a passable product, would you still pay the same premium for the product?

"Passable"? If someone who isn't really good at what they do gets lucky and puts out a product on par with someone who makes an excellent product, of course I'd buy it. Are you so stuck up that you'd only purchase a product which is manufactured by a "reputable" company?

 

[jostenmeat]

I haven't read this thread, and I didn't really know what was implied by auto-tune! Blasphemy!

A device like this will irrevocably limit musical expression, IMO, rather in the same way that click tracks do for percussion (or all the lines) in a pop tune.

With an unwavering click track, one cannot employ rubato of any kind, and essentially give up a VERY IMPORTANT expressive rhythmic tool.

If one cannot play with pitch, whatsoever, for color's sake, then another expressive tool is lost.

Something like this could be even more profoundly limiting to some other musics, like classical (east) Indian, where they will actually hit below or above the "true" pitches for expressive sake, depending on the actual tone in the raga (or melakarta) being sung.

 

[pzaur]

you'd know that time is expensive. When you don't have a lot of time to work on vocals...

You learn to sing before you get in the studio.

Done here. Moving on.

Josten - very nicely worded.

-pat

 

[Djizasse]

Hehehe
http://iamtpain.smule.com/

 

[zhimbo]

I occasionally get stuck somewhere with a pop station playing, and I'm astonished that people would voluntarily listen to those sterile, artificial, robo-voices for so long. Song after song after song after song...

Sure it's all a matter of taste - and if someone likes to listen to nothing but a steady stream of expressionless robo-singing, good for them. They're living in a golden age!

Could you imagine if Billie Holiday started singing today?

 

[zhimbo]

If you've spent time in a studio with pop acts, you'd know that time is expensive. When you don't have a lot of time to work on vocals, you take the best track and produce it using plugins like autotune minimally, in a manner which is entirely transparent, to correct mistakes and save tons of money.

This use of auto-tune makes (relative) sense, but it's obvious by listening to any pop/top-40 station that auto-tune use goes way, way beyond this. The use of auto-tune is not "minimal" at all these days. It's easily and clearly heard on more pop songs than not, at least in certain sub-genres. I'm not talking about occasional note-fixing, I'm talking about continuous and significant meddling that gives a clearly-heard synthetic quality to all or nearly all of the vocal track of a song.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Don't listen to music that uses it in that Kanye West vocode sounding way?

It's just a tool, like every other plugin. How the user implements it is what matters.

I would personally use autotune on vocal tracks that needed pitch correction. I also wouldn't mind seeing what it does for live performances. Whatever you have to do to get a quality vocal track that pleases the listener.