Gaius Caligula

Gaius Caligula

Audioholic Intern
As an amazed consumer, I must take a moment to rant about Monster's pisspoor pricing, offerings, and intertwined, subversive tactics used to, practically, coerce the large majority of a/v merchants (e.g., Best Buy, Circuit City, The Good Guys, Radio Shack) to forefront Monster products, and in some cases, carry nothing but Monster products.

MONSTER PRICING COMPARISON

I equipped my system almost exclusively with Canare cables. I purchased the following Canare products from Blue Jeans Cable:

Component Video Cable, Canare V3-5CFB, 3 foot
Item Amount: $42.25 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $84.50

Subwoofer Cable, Canare LV-77S, 12 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $25.00

Stereo Audio Cables, Canare LV-77S, 3 foot
Item Amount: $30.50
Quantity: 2
Total: $61.00

Digital Coax Audio Cable, Canare LV-77S, 3 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $15.25

Canare LV-61S 6-channel SACD/DVD-A Audio Cables, 3 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $75.50

Canare Grand Total: $273.75

Now, for the same products, at the approximate same quality level (see below re "Offerings") from Monster, were I to purchase Monster products online from the discount merchant Wild West Electronics, let us look at the cost difference:

Monster Cable 300 High-Resolution Component Video Cable, 1 meter
Item Amount: $69.00 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $138.00 USD

Monster Cable MonsterBass 300
Subwoofer Interconnect Precision Powered Subwoofer Cable, 12 foot

Quantity: 1
Total: $39.95

Monster Cable Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Techno Audio Interconnect Cable, 1 meter
Item Amount: $29.95 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $59.90 USD

Monster Cable Interlink Coaxial Digital Interlink Cable, 1 meter
Quantity: 1
Total: $39.95 USD

Monster Cable Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Techno SACD/DVDA Audio Interconnect Bundle, 1 meter
Quantity: 1
Total: $89.95

Monster Grand Total: $367.75

Price Difference Analysis

Monster: $367.75
Canare: $273.75
Total Difference: $ 94.00

That is unacceptable! And if I were to purchase the same Monster products from the major retailers, the difference would be even worse. Further, one could certainly argue that the Canare products I purchased actually compare more appropriately to a much "higher-end" Monster product, such as the Interlink 400 or M850 series, if not higher.

MONSTER OFFERINGS

To make matters worse, Monster intentionally confuses the consumer into buying a level of product that they just don't need by offering up to 17 different levels of "quality," for a single product, each level costing the consumer more and more. For example, let us take a typical Monster product and examine the crazy levels of "quality" offerings and corresponding prices:

Product: Monster Stereo Audio Interconnect Cables (pair), 6 feet and/or 2 meters

Standard THX Audio Interconnect: $ 17.95*
Interlink 100 Quality Interconnect: $ 29.95
Interlink 200 Balanced Interconnect: $ 39.95
Interlink 250 Audio Interconnect w/ Precision Machined RCA Connectors: $ 49.95
M350i Interconnect: $ 50.00
Ultra Series THX 600 Audio Interconnect: $ 59.95
M550i Interconnect: $ 65.00
Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Technology Audio Interconnect: $ 69.95
Ultra Series THX 800 Audio Interconnects: $ 89.95
Interlink 400 MkII Advanced Bandwidth Balanced Audio Interconnect: $ 89.95
M850i Interconnect: $ 100.00
Ultra Series THX 1000 Audio Interconnects: $ 115.95
Interlink Reference - Reference Quality Audio Interconnect: $ 129.95
Z100i Audiophile Performance Interconnect Cable: $ 199.95
M950i Interconnect: $ 200.00
Z200i Reference Advanced Audiophile Interconnect Cable: $ 279.95
Sigma Retro Gold Interconnect Cables: $1,500.00

*THX pricing adjusted to six-foot lengths, as Monster THX cables come only in 4 or 8ft lengths.

(See, e.g., Monster Analog Interconnects.)

Okay, we're talking about the same basic item here -- six-foot analog stereo interconnect cables (i.e., a pair) w/ RCA connectors, and just look at all the confusion Monster provides the customer in trying to decide what they should buy! And note that Monster describes each level as, "good," "better," "best," "ultra," etc. to make the consumer feel that they need to buy a higher level product to get the most out of their system. Taken to an extreme, $1,500 for a pair of six-foot stereo analog cables!! Unbelievable!

MONSTER COERCION

With all that said, it simply amazes me that wherever I go to look at a/v products, it seems that the name "Monster" is everywhere. It is ubiquitous and practically omnipresent. To the unknowing consumer, it seems pure and natural to buy Monster products -- but just look at the mess one faces when going to by such products, both by their expense and crazy offering levels! It's a travesty! Someone needs to smack Monster around the block. :mad:

Rant over. :D
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
Hell, I think you way over paid for what you got.

I could done it for under $100 and I would bet you the diffence in cost that there is not way in hell you could ever tell the difference between my cables and yours in terms of sound.

It's all about marketing. Look at Bose.

BTW, nice rant. Clear, full of factual info, and you summed it up well. Very nice. :D

Shinerman
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I agree :eek:

Seriously though, there's been a lot of ranting about monster here. The thing is though, they generally do make quality products, even if their prices are high. The really bad things are the horrible esoteric cable companies like Transparent that hook networks onto cables and sell them for up to $30k (yes, seriously, $30k for a pair of speaker cables). It's sad, but true. And sadly, the cheaper cables will often exhibit better performance than the expensive ones.

You've come to the right place to rant though, you'll find many friends here :-D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
How else would they be able to buy the rigts to the baseball stadeum in San Francisco for millions? After all, isn't it important for an audio company to have their name on a stadeum??? :mad:

Then they go after small mom and pop stores for using monster in their name for other products. They bully them the change names, or agree on a licensing agreement :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Indeed. This is my favorite listed feature:

Monster Marketing said:
Advanced Monster® technologies at a moderate price point maximize high performance speaker systems.
Moderate? Maybe if you're talking about speakers...

Monster isn't a big of a problem though, when compared to something like, say, Transparent. And sadly, that's one of their cheaper cables... Of course, don't believe the BS that MIT is good either, there is NO reason to slap a network on a speaker cable. None whatsoever.
 
HookedOnSound

HookedOnSound

Full Audioholic
Monster Price!

For a 250 ft. spool you're looking at almost $8/ft. Very pricey indeed. For heaven's sake, it just copper everyone!

Gaius Caligula said:
Damn! It gets worse... someone pointed-out to me the new, and absurd Z-series speaker cable by Monster. Check this out, at an online discount retailer: http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/z2biwaudspea2.html ! :eek:

Why can't hackers go after companies like this instead of Universities and such?!?

The only way around this is to educate the general public that comparable quality products exist a much lower price point. Word will get that Monster is more hype than substance pretty much like B0SE. Good products but not exceptional performers...
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
Hell, I think you way over paid for what you got.
What? He did the right thing by ordering his needed cables off blue jeans cable.

I never understand how this whole cable BS started anyways, I can see paying a little more for quality but in the audio industry it has gone crazy. I am 22 so I never saw the start of the cable wars, if an old timer could give some input that would be great.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
HookedOnSound said:
For heaven's sake, it just copper everyone!
...

Well, not totally :rolleyes:
When it comes to cables, copper is gold, in the bank :D
 
Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
Gaius Caligula said:
As an amazed consumer, I must take a moment to rant about Monster's pisspoor pricing, offerings, and intertwined, subversive tactics used to, practically, coerce the large majority of a/v merchants (e.g., Best Buy, Circuit City, The Good Guys, Radio Shack) to forefront Monster products, and in some cases, carry nothing but Monster products.

MONSTER PRICING COMPARISON

I equipped my system almost exclusively with Canare cables. I purchased the following Canare products from Blue Jeans Cable:

Component Video Cable, Canare V3-5CFB, 3 foot
Item Amount: $42.25 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $84.50

Subwoofer Cable, Canare LV-77S, 12 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $25.00

Stereo Audio Cables, Canare LV-77S, 3 foot
Item Amount: $30.50
Quantity: 2
Total: $61.00

Digital Coax Audio Cable, Canare LV-77S, 3 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $15.25

Canare LV-61S 6-channel SACD/DVD-A Audio Cables, 3 foot
Quantity: 1
Total: $75.50

Canare Grand Total: $273.75

Now, for the same products, at the approximate same quality level (see below re "Offerings") from Monster, were I to purchase Monster products online from the discount merchant Wild West Electronics, let us look at the cost difference:

Monster Cable 300 High-Resolution Component Video Cable, 1 meter
Item Amount: $69.00 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $138.00 USD

Monster Cable MonsterBass 300
Subwoofer Interconnect Precision Powered Subwoofer Cable, 12 foot

Quantity: 1
Total: $39.95

Monster Cable Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Techno Audio Interconnect Cable, 1 meter
Item Amount: $29.95 USD
Quantity: 2
Total: $59.90 USD

Monster Cable Interlink Coaxial Digital Interlink Cable, 1 meter
Quantity: 1
Total: $39.95 USD

Monster Cable Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Techno SACD/DVDA Audio Interconnect Bundle, 1 meter
Quantity: 1
Total: $89.95

Monster Grand Total: $367.75

Price Difference Analysis

Monster: $367.75
Canare: $273.75
Total Difference: $ 94.00

That is unacceptable! And if I were to purchase the same Monster products from the major retailers, the difference would be even worse. Further, one could certainly argue that the Canare products I purchased actually compare more appropriately to a much "higher-end" Monster product, such as the Interlink 400 or M850 series, if not higher.

MONSTER OFFERINGS

To make matters worse, Monster intentionally confuses the consumer into buying a level of product that they just don't need by offering up to 17 different levels of "quality," for a single product, each level costing the consumer more and more. For example, let us take a typical Monster product and examine the crazy levels of "quality" offerings and corresponding prices:

Product: Monster Stereo Audio Interconnect Cables (pair), 6 feet and/or 2 meters

Standard THX Audio Interconnect: $ 17.95*
Interlink 100 Quality Interconnect: $ 29.95
Interlink 200 Balanced Interconnect: $ 39.95
Interlink 250 Audio Interconnect w/ Precision Machined RCA Connectors: $ 49.95
M350i Interconnect: $ 50.00
Ultra Series THX 600 Audio Interconnect: $ 59.95
M550i Interconnect: $ 65.00
Interlink 300 MkII Solid Core Technology Audio Interconnect: $ 69.95
Ultra Series THX 800 Audio Interconnects: $ 89.95
Interlink 400 MkII Advanced Bandwidth Balanced Audio Interconnect: $ 89.95
M850i Interconnect: $ 100.00
Ultra Series THX 1000 Audio Interconnects: $ 115.95
Interlink Reference - Reference Quality Audio Interconnect: $ 129.95
Z100i Audiophile Performance Interconnect Cable: $ 199.95
M950i Interconnect: $ 200.00
Z200i Reference Advanced Audiophile Interconnect Cable: $ 279.95
Sigma Retro Gold Interconnect Cables: $1,500.00

*THX pricing adjusted to six-foot lengths, as Monster THX cables come only in 4 or 8ft lengths.

(See, e.g., Monster Analog Interconnects.)

Okay, we're talking about the same basic item here -- six-foot analog stereo interconnect cables (i.e., a pair) w/ RCA connectors, and just look at all the confusion Monster provides the customer in trying to decide what they should buy! And note that Monster describes each level as, "good," "better," "best," "ultra," etc. to make the consumer feel that they need to buy a higher level product to get the most out of their system. Taken to an extreme, $1,500 for a pair of six-foot stereo analog cables!! Unbelievable!

MONSTER COERCION

With all that said, it simply amazes me that wherever I go to look at a/v products, it seems that the name "Monster" is everywhere. It is ubiquitous and practically omnipresent. To the unknowing consumer, it seems pure and natural to buy Monster products -- but just look at the mess one faces when going to by such products, both by their expense and crazy offering levels! It's a travesty! Someone needs to smack Monster around the block. :mad:

Rant over. :D
Damn guy, you certainly put alot of time into one post.

Paul

*Edit* And I agree. :eek:
 
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BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Last projector I installed I ran 7 sets of 40 foot wires to. With terminations I believe the total cost was about 70 bucks. But, I had a fair amount of wire left over.

Really, I have yet to understand why Blue Jeans cables cost so much, let alone Monster's prefab stuff.

I personally won't use anything but Monster 14/4 CIPRO for my in-wall speaker runs for distributed audio. That stuff is far superior than anything I have ever laid my hands on for actual PHYSICAL installation performance. Pulls clean, bends nice, strips nice, fast and accurate to terminate. OH, and it runs about 20 cents a foot, which is less or equivalent to most of the competition.
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
Privateer said:
What? He did the right thing by ordering his needed cables off blue jeans cable.

I never understand how this whole cable BS started anyways, I can see paying a little more for quality but in the audio industry it has gone crazy. I am 22 so I never saw the start of the cable wars, if an old timer could give some input that would be great.
The Radio Shack Gold is probably half the price of Blue Jeans. I am not putting down Blue Jeans, but there are less expensive cables of equal quality available. I think that is the what Shinerman was getting at.
 
W

warpdrive

Full Audioholic
Nick250 said:
The Radio Shack Gold is probably half the price of Blue Jeans. I am not putting down Blue Jeans, but there are less expensive cables of equal quality available. I think that is the what Shinerman was getting at.
Actually, I'd argue the stuff at Bluejeans is still far better. The Belden/Canare stuff is a top quality product. If you are running long lengths of cable, it's worth going with them. I was running a 25 ft HDMI cable, and I went through many other cheaper cables before I went with the bluejeans version. All the dropout problems I was having went away.
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
Nick250 said:
The Radio Shack Gold is probably half the price of Blue Jeans. I am not putting down Blue Jeans, but there are less expensive cables of equal quality available. I think that is the what Shinerman was getting at.

I agree! :eek:

Shinerman
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I would like to add that in the one blind test I have read the included them, blister packs (the cheap ones that come free with your VCR/TV/DVD player) showed no visible deterioration in image quality when compared to premium cables.

So, cables that cost $1.00 were not just comparable, but actually indistinguishable, to viewers when compared to multple types of premium cables. Granted, there could have been 100+ things wrong with the test. It is just the type of test that should be conducted more often.
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
BMXTRIX said:
I would like to add that in the one blind test I have read the included them, blister packs (the cheap ones that come free with your VCR/TV/DVD player) showed no visible deterioration in image quality when compared to premium cables.

So, cables that cost $1.00 were not just comparable, but actually indistinguishable, to viewers when compared to multple types of premium cables. Granted, there could have been 100+ things wrong with the test. It is just the type of test that should be conducted more often.

I agree that there is probably no audible difference in performance between the cheap cables and the more expensive ones but I have found that you need to spend a little money to get better build quality. I have used those cheap cables in the past and have found defective cables quite often. By defective I mean cuts in cable, loose connections, etc. One time, I actually found that the wire went into the connector but somehow was not making contact. No sound at all. To the eye it looked perfect but under it's skin, no contact.

BTW, Monster cable is a good product in terms of quality. I would hate for someone to get the impression we all hate Monster because of their product quality. I don't think that's the case for most of us. It's their slimeball, underhanded, evil, deceptive, marketing and pricing and desire to "rule the world" by any means that really ticks most of us off.

In terms of company ethics and overall "goodness", Monster is at the bottom of the barrell and deserves to be brought down or at least knocked down several notches.

Whoo, started getting into a rant there.

Anyway,

Shinerman
 
W

warpdrive

Full Audioholic
BMXTRIX said:
Really, I have yet to understand why Blue Jeans cables cost so much, let alone Monster's prefab stuff.
They are a store, and are making a profit. If you bought the exact same stuff that Bluejeans sells (Belden/Canare etc) and made it yourself, you could certainly make the exact same cable for less that what they sell it for. In fact, that's what I did. The Belden cable they use is good stuff, the physical and electrical specs are available and you know exactly what you are getting. The raw bulk cable is available much cheaper, but you have to buy a huge spool typically.

But that doesn't mean that it's not worth ordering from them. They will terminate the cable for you at any custom length. That's a service they are providing and you pay for the product and labour.

The whole issue of whether you can get away with something cheaper is something you have to decide. I have a whole range of cables, from freebies, Home Depot generic, to Belden, and even some Monster stuff.

I've had bad cables that wasted me hours in diagnosing problems, dropouts, static, interference etc.

I bought some Radio shack Component Video cable that was so loose that it came off my terminals whenever I moved the component.

I had some home depot 12 gauge cable and after a while it turned green. That didn't inspire confidence even if it doesn't affect the sound that I could notice.

When I was trying to hook up my HDMI DVD player, I wasted hours trying to diagnose sparkly dropouts, which would have been avoid if I chosen to go with the cable from bluejeans anyway which ended up solving my problem. That's time wasted and time is money.

So now I stick with good quality connectors, and proven bulk cable brands like Belden. I may pay a bit more, but it's worth it to me.
 
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Gaius Caligula

Gaius Caligula

Audioholic Intern
BMXTRIX said:
I would like to add that in the one blind test I have read the included them, blister packs (the cheap ones that come free with your VCR/TV/DVD player) showed no visible deterioration in image quality when compared to premium cables.

So, cables that cost $1.00 were not just comparable, but actually indistinguishable, to viewers when compared to multple types of premium cables. Granted, there could have been 100+ things wrong with the test. It is just the type of test that should be conducted more often.
The testers must have had wonderful blister packs, complete with component interconnects, coaxial digital interconnects, and toslink digital interrconnects, as opposed to cheap composite crap, which is what is usually included in blister packs.

On a separate note, I have various Radio Shack Gold series cables as well, and I find that they really aren't significantly less expensive than Blue Jeans Cable (e.g., Canare 12' Subwoofer Cable @ Blue Jeans: $24.99; R.S. Gold Series 12' Subwoofer Cable: $19.99). The difference lies in quality and durability; indeede, Canare cables will last and last and last. I will never have to replace these cables, where I've had to replace/repair Radio Shack stuff before. Indeed, while the performance may be similiar, the quality and durability is not. Canare > Radio Shack Gold Series.
 
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Gaius Caligula

Gaius Caligula

Audioholic Intern
warpdrive said:
I bought some Radio shack Component Video cable that was so loose that it came off my terminals whenever I moved the component.
I too have had this same problem -- along with other such quality problems -- with the Radio Shack Gold Series, among other inexpensive cables.
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
Gaius Caligula said:
The testers must have had wonderful blister packs, complete with component interconnects, coaxial digital interconnects, and toslink digital interrconnects, as opposed to cheap composite crap, which is what is usually included in blister packs.

On a separate note, I have various Radio Shack Gold series cables as well, and I find that they really aren't significantly less expensive than Blue Jeans Cable (e.g., Canare 12' Subwoofer Cable @ Blue Jeans: $24.99; R.S. Gold Series 12' Subwoofer Cable: $19.99). The difference is that Canare cables will last and last and last. I will never have to replace these cables, where I've had to replace Radio Shack stuff before. Indeed, while the performance may be similiar, the durability is not. Canare > Radio Shack Gold Series.

Yes, but a "Sub" cable is the same as a standard RCA patch cable and the 12 foot Rat Shack Gold audio patch cable is $9.99. So by getting the "Sub" cable you are throwing away $10.00 for the words "sub cable" printed on the package.

Shinerman.
 

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