Mobile PC, Windows 7, HDMI, Splitters, Handshake Issues

[JayShoe]

Hello,

I'm from Jukebox Jockey, we develop technologies for digital jukeboxes and karaoke machines. Our machines are often connected to televisions for the purposes of displaying Music Video and Karaoke content on the screens. The machines are often mobile, moving from venue to venue. Therefore, they are not always connected to the same TVs. I've had so many technical support challenges relating to this, I'm trying to figure out a solution once and for all.

Here are a list of common issues after connecting the PC to the tv/tvs.

- The default/primary display is on the wrong screen. The touch monitor (main interface monitor) shows the secondary display, the big TV shows the main interface.

- In the case of a splitter, the secondary display will only show on one TV.

- In the case of a splitter, the pc will not detect any display at all.

I'm wondering why this is such a big issue? It seems to me that connecting a DVD player to the same equipment wouldn't cause such a fuss... Is it possible to dumb down the PC so that it ALWAYS sends a signal to the secondary display, never tries to detect anything, it just displays?

We aren't playing any copyprotected materials. So we don't really need the DHCP handshake at all... Can it be turned off?

 

[JayShoe]

I feel like what I need is a box... It would have two HDMI ports, one in, one out. That box would mimuck a TV... So that windows detects the fact that there is a TV there. Therefore, windows would always send a signal to that box. Then the box simply repeated out exactly what it takes in. We could then connect the output of the box to whatever we wanted, we would have a clean signal that WORKED........ Is it possible that an HDMI repeater would do that???

 

[JayShoe]

I think maybe I found a solution...

The Gefen HDMI Detective Plus
Gefen, LLC - HDMI Detective Plus

 

[BMXTRIX]

You need an EDID minder and what you are asking for isn't straightforward because EDID is REALLY screwed up.

You want to get an EDID minder which you connect to the outputs of the PC as appropriate, and they will always report the same thing to the PC. This will then pass on video to the displays without ever changing things.

Extron makes some which work reasonably well.

The Gefen one you link to also should work, but Gefen stuff is not as thoroughly tested as Extron and is more likely to give you headaches.

 

[agarwalro]

In case of multiple video outs, the OS always deems one as the Primary. You will need to figure out which of your devices needs to be given this status and place a setup process rule requiring all venues to connect their displays specifically.

If both display is not connected or one is turned off, when Windows boots, it will turn off the multi monitor feature until someone goes and manually enables it. So, ensure both displays are connected and powered on before firing up the PC. This is also the case with updates, crashes, power outages or any reason the PC reboots.

I have no idea if one can force multiple displays/ display assignments permanently, but it seems unlikely. Maybe, if you have a custom driver for your video needs .

 

[TLS Guy]

Your problems will get worse over time.

First of all there are a number of issues you need to understand.

First of all the HDCP codes can not be circumvented.

Next you have to distinguish the architecture for TVs, which are considered end devices, as long as they do not have an HDMI output for sound bars.

Next are through devices, these are ones that receive and transmit HDMI.

Now an end device is only required to make one initial HDCP code handshake.

On the other hand a switcher has to make repeated HDCP code handshakes with the transmitting device and only initial handshakes with the TV.

So your devices must have repeater HDMI/HDCP code architecture to transmit to anything that also outputs HDMI.

So you have to make sure your devices have repeater architecture to use a switch or EDID controller.

 

[BMXTRIX]

So you have to make sure your devices have repeater architecture to use a switch or EDID controller.

This is not true if the proper EDID minding product is utilized. Our business has been VERY deep into PC EDID compatibility issues and the correlation of HDCP with it.

Most people, mistakenly, believe that HDCP is controlled exclusively at the device level. If a device says it can only connect to one target with zero hops and no splitting, that's it.

But, it isn't true. HDCP is designed about ensuring that all devices connected to a source are properly keyed and have paid licensing fees and are allowed to show copyright protected content. As such, a splitter, which pays fees for individual HDCP keys and hop renewals are allowed to split a single HDCP protected feed as many times as is necessary.

Similarly, EDID minders with this technology can do similar.

It is completely irrigardless of the origination source!

The company that is on the HDCP board of directors that has worked to make this reality is PureLink. Their product is pricey, but they are the ones who wrote the rules which others are now using to create HDCP compliant matrix switchers with guaranteed compatibility. Unlike older and cheaper HDMI matrices which relied on the device to provide multiple keys, the new switchers used by Extron, Crestron, AMX, and PureLink all allow for true full matrixing with indivdual HDCP rekeying.

Extron is VERY slow to the game on this and doesn't appear to have a good EDID minder for displays.

Unfortunately, PureLink does not have a EDID minder stand alone product which I could find, but I will check with a couple of guys I work with to see which one of the ones we have tested, or other equipment we have used, will give you the best results with your scenario.

The Gefen one may work... but Gefen truly is about 50/50 or less on the quality of their product.

 

[JayShoe]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for all of your help. Some of the information went over my head, and some of it seems like it doesn't apply in my scenario. But here is what I take from my research, experience, and the comments made here.

The problem with Windows is that in order to send a signal to the secondary display, the device must be connected. There is no such thing as "always presume a secondary display" in Windows.

When you connect a device, windows will enable the secondary monitor and look at the EDID. Based on the EDID Windows is able to determine what format it should be sending to that device. It will automatically set default settings. If I were to manually change those settings, windows will actually save those configurations for the next time that device is hooked up (my experience has shown me this).

In the case of Jukebox Jockey, it's important that at startup the PC has detected a secondary display. By detecting the secondary display, Jukebox Jockey will auto-config to display information and content on that display. If there is no display detected, at the startup of JJ it will not config that secondary display. To fix it, you have to enable the secondary display and restart JJ. This is what I'm trying to avoid.

Therefore, I need to feed Windows a link between a device (any device - which has an EDID... an EDID minder) at startup. I will setup Windows to the settings that are most commonly used on TVs (at bars or other venues). Windows will not change the settings because it has already registered the EDID I've fed it.

Then, when I connect a TV to the EDID minder's other end via HDMI - it should work. Because windows has already determined that there is a device, and it's sending a standard resolution. In the case of a splitter - it should work too... Because again - Windows is already sending the signal that I've set it to send.

Maybe I've oversimplified it because it's possible that the EDID has to match the end-device's EDID???? If so I'm just screwed and I simply hate HDMI!!! What I want is a standard resolution to be outputted at ALL TIMES via windows and I want to be able to connect an HDMI cable to a TV and run........................

 

[BMXTRIX]

You seem to properly understand your problem and the solution.

Oh, and you also properly understand some of the frustration associated with HDMI in the commercial workspace.