Mix 'n Match system: What upgrade will give me a "night and day" difference?

[mannetti21]

Over the years I've intentionally and unintentionally acquired the audio components that I'm currently using for my home theater/music set-up. My most recent additions have been my receiver and subwoofer, both of which I am pretty happy with.

My issue is, I think, with my fronts; they seem to be lacking clarity and punch, and can sometimes even be "annoying" for lack of better description, in that things sound too sharp/high/bright...if that makes any sense. I was thinking about replacing my fronts, but then I worry about trying to integrate them with the rest of my inferior speakers, which is just about all of them except for the sub IMO.

Would you scrap the entire system (minus sub and receiver) and start over with matched speakers from a single manufacturer? What fronts would provide me with an OBVIOUS improvement over my current towers? Let's assume I'm looking for a solution less than $2000.



Right now I have the following:

Receiver: Onkyo TX NR808

Fronts: TSC (TheSpeakerCompany) TST2 towers (I know these aren't very mainstream, and TSC has actually gone out of business, so here is a link to some data)

Center: TSC RC-1 (again, uncommon so scroll down this page for a bit of info on them)

Surrounds: Insignia bookshelfs 6.5" 2-way (...more info)

Subwoofer: Rythmik FV-15 (specs)

 

[Grador]

From personal experience, adding a non-matching center can really throw a wrench into things. I added a respectable center to my setup, which you'll notice in my sig has been sold, because it made television and movies.....really weird. Having a sound change character as it moved around the front of the soundstage just didn't work. That said I have no complains with non-matching surrounds. I do wish mine were slightly better [I had been using paradigm mini-monitors but rearanged the room, and they no longer fit] but even the junk i'm using is fine for movie use.

If you're looking for 5.1 channel music, I can't really speak for that but I imagine you're probably going to want matching all around.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Over the years I've intentionally and unintentionally acquired the audio components that I'm currently using for my home theater/music set-up. My most recent additions have been my receiver and subwoofer, both of which I am pretty happy with.

My issue is, I think, with my fronts; they seem to be lacking clarity and punch, and can sometimes even be "annoying" for lack of better description, in that things sound too sharp/high/bright...if that makes any sense. I was thinking about replacing my fronts, but then I worry about trying to integrate them with the rest of my inferior speakers, which is just about all of them except for the sub IMO.

Would you scrap the entire system (minus sub and receiver) and start over with matched speakers from a single manufacturer? What fronts would provide me with an OBVIOUS improvement over my current towers? Let's assume I'm looking for a solution less than $2000.



Right now I have the following:

Receiver: Onkyo TX NR808

Fronts: TSC (TheSpeakerCompany) TST2 towers (I know these aren't very mainstream, and TSC has actually gone out of business, so here is a link to some data)

Center: TSC RC-1 (again, uncommon so scroll down this page for a bit of info on them)

Surrounds: Insignia bookshelfs 6.5" 2-way (...more info)

Subwoofer: Rythmik FV-15 (specs)

tst2 should be matched with TC2 center - this center is a beast... RC-1 imo is odd one out in your system....
What said if HT is your main usage, imo tst2 should be fine. Make sure to re-run the auto setup. Then verify levels, distances, all speakers set to small and front cross-overs at 80hz, rears - probably 90-100 (guessing here)

I have a very similar setup to your for a long while ( living in apt I assumed I wont need a sub), but then I added a sub - thing started to sound much better - including the human dialog

For night and day difference you'd need really to swap all 3 front speakers to significantly better, which wont be easy.
Remember - tst2 were not loosing much to $1000 speakers...

I would guess that you'd like Ascent CMT-340SE and since you have a very capable sub, no need to hunt after the low end response in fronts

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

p.: Sorry it's Ascend
CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker

 

[lsiberian]

p.: Sorry it's Ascend
CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker

It's early east to cross your t's and d's.

 

[Nuance AH]

Would you scrap the entire system (minus sub and receiver) and start over with matched speakers from a single manufacturer? What fronts would provide me with an OBVIOUS improvement over my current towers? Let's assume I'm looking for a solution less than $2000.

If you're really not happy with the sound I don't see adding the matching center channel as the solution; I would scrap the front three that you currently own for something else. You should keep your current rears for now until you've had a change to replace the front three and listen to everything together. If you deem it necessary to replace the rears down the road - cool. But the fronts and center will be the most important IMO.

For around $2000 I'd look at the Philharmonic 1's and the matching center channel (which I believe is around $500, perhaps a touch more). I can't think of a better speaker (on paper) for the money.

philharmonicaudio.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also highly recommend the Philharmonic 1 towers & matching center or Philharmonic 1 bookshelf speaker if you have room for a vertical center.

Great sound, great measurements, extremely low profit which means great deal for your money.

 

[sholling]

p.: Sorry it's Ascend
CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker

That's an excellent choice.

 

[zieglj01]

On the Retail side, I would look at Monitor Audio Silver

RX-6 towers
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRX6 EBLKOAK

RX-Center
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRSRXCE GLSWHT

 

[mannetti21]

Thanks all for the responses thus far.

tst2 should be matched with TC2 center - this center is a beast... RC-1 imo is odd one out in your system....
What said if HT is your main usage, imo tst2 should be fine. Make sure to re-run the auto setup. Then verify levels, distances, all speakers set to small and front cross-overs at 80hz, rears - probably 90-100 (guessing here)

I have a very similar setup to your for a long while ( living in apt I assumed I wont need a sub), but then I added a sub - thing started to sound much better - including the human dialog

Definitely the center speaker is the weak link, although this does not account for my dissatisfaction with music as I'm usually listening in stereo mode. Wish I could find a TC2, but I've looked for months with no success...care to sell the one you have listed in your sig???

As for the sub...I've had some troubles integrating it with my towers. I've used the REW software with a SPL meter to check my response curve and the sub (alone) is quite flat from 20-70hz. The TST2's are quite good down to around 40hz (alone). But when I test fronts and sub together, I simply cannot avoid a significant dip near crossover without introducing a dip somewhere else, regardless if I use a 40, 60, 70, 80hz crossover, and despite hours upon hours of tinkering with phase and equalization with the Behringer FBD Pro and Audyssey, as well as changing sub positions.

Wish I still had the curves available (lost my hard drive data), but the best I could come up with was 70hz cross over and a fair sized dip around 80-90hz I believe...and this is with a good amount of gain added at some frequencies of the sub. Perhaps this is actually a major source of my problem that needs to be addressed first. Although, I actually DREAD having to go through that equalization process all over again, but I'd hate to drop $2K on great speakers only to be in a similar situation.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Have you tried a house curve instead of flat frequency response? You could just not like a flat treble response and prefer it rolled off. (I seem to remember TSC speakers having a pretty crisp high end.)

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I see you've done your homework.
Unfortunately I don't have plans to sell my tc2 just yet,
but I will keep you in mind then I decide to.
Instead of pure stereo, try play music with just fronts and sub - this should keep Audyssey enabled.
Aperion audio offers in home 30 days risk free trial.
Verus line received highest praises from AH pros.
Ascend offer differs since you'd have to pay return shipping.

it also very possible that you have issues with room modes.

 

[mannetti21]

I see you've done your homework.
Unfortunately I don't have plans to sell my tc2 just yet,
but I will keep you in mind then I decide to.
Instead of pure stereo, try play music with just fronts and sub - this should keep Audyssey enabled.
Aperion audio offers in home 30 days risk free trial.
Verus line received highest praises from AH pros.
Ascend offer differs since you'd have to pay return shipping.

it also very possible that you have issues with room modes.

I actually didn't mean "pure" stereo, I am listening with fronts and sub. But regardless, there's something missing in the sound. I think there is, in fact, something strange going on with my room...either that or I was doing something wrong when trying to phase align the fronts and sub. I admit that I didn't 100% understand why I was getting the curves I was getting, but I did realize that they weren't changing in the way I would expect them to based off my phase adjustments...or maybe I just didn't understand why I was making each specific adjustment.

I may need to start over again with a new dedicated thread, and ask for a walk-through in making adjustments based on my response curves...looks like I'm going to have a busy day-off from work on Tuesday.

Previously, I think the process went something like this:

• 1) Measure sub response alone, without fronts, Audyssey, or Behringer equalizer, to find best location with flattest curve
• 2) Then measure fronts and sub curve
• 3) Tinker with crossover and sub distance for smoothest cross-over point
• 4) Tweak with Behringer
• 5) Run Audyssey for final calibration of fronts, sub, center, and surrounds

Look about right? Also, now knowing that my major dip (when fronts and sub integrated) was 80-90HZ...in step #1 in the process, should I instead be looking for a potential sub location that shows a peak around 80-90Hz rather than being flat, even if it means a dip is present elsewhere?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I actually didn't mean "pure" stereo, I am listening with fronts and sub. But regardless, there's something missing in the sound. I think there is, in fact, something strange going on with my room...either that or I was doing something wrong when trying to phase align the fronts and sub. I admit that I didn't 100% understand why I was getting the curves I was getting, but I did realize that they weren't changing in the way I would expect them to based off my phase adjustments...or maybe I just didn't understand why I was making each specific adjustment.

I may need to start over again with a new dedicated thread, and ask for a walk-through in making adjustments based on my response curves...looks like I'm going to have a busy day-off from work on Tuesday.

Previously, I think the process went something like this:

• 1) Measure sub response alone, without fronts, Audyssey, or Behringer equalizer, to find best location with flattest curve
• 2) Then measure fronts and sub curve
• 3) Tinker with crossover and sub distance for smoothest cross-over point
• 4) Tweak with Behringer
• 5) Run Audyssey for final calibration of fronts, sub, center, and surrounds

Look about right? Also, now knowing that my major dip (when fronts and sub integrated) was 80-90HZ...in step #1 in the process, should I instead be looking for a potential sub location that shows a peak around 80-90Hz rather than being flat, even if it means a dip is present elsewhere?

Without going into details: eQ and electronic adjustments should be done AFTER you exhausted other options aka: Room treatments and speakers and sub positioning (aka crawling for bass)

 

[mannetti21]

Without going into details: eQ and electronic adjustments should be done AFTER you exhausted other options aka: Room treatments and speakers and sub positioning (aka crawling for bass)

For now, I'm limited in what I can do with room treatments for 2 reasons, rental apartment, and wife. I'm moving into a house within the next 6months, and at that point I should be able to alter the room however I like, within reason. As far equalization being done as a last resort, I agree, which is why Behringer and Audyssey were saved for the end...am I missing something here?

I've done the sub-crawl, and realistically there are about 4-5 locations that this sub can be placed without upsetting this fine institution of marriage. The current placement gave me a fairly good curve with sub alone, with only a small dip, maybe 3-5dB. But as soon as the fronts were added, I was probably around a 10+dB dip.

If this is in fact due to a room mode, lets say at 80Hz, would it be logical to assume that my first concern should be moving the sub away from the fronts in an attempt to overcome the mode?