"mid range speaker" too "money no object speaker"

[jamie2112]

I wouldn't go that far.

I agree that the room/acoustics has a lot to do with sound quality. But a pair of B&W 802D's, are still 802D's.

Agreed 110% those speakers are amazing.I wish I could afford a pair..

 

[jamie2112]

I love the 800d and the 801d as well....One day...

 

[jostenmeat]

I find that a hard choice to make. The main reason being a good room will be more revealing of the inherent weaknesses (primarily polar response and resonances) in a low quality speaker. So you end up with a great room and it shows off how bad your speakers are .

Yeah, but c'mon... to a point? Seriously. A 1k pair can sound quite fine, if not BW top-end level. IMO, I guess they would sound or measure much more similarly in a good room, VS BWs in a terrible room and (Sierrra-1s?) in a good room. Yeah, even missing low response, I'd still take the latter. In fact, Im positive the latter would blow the first combo away going by the two rooms Ive tried for my stereo this year. Yep, I also brought in 300 lbs of treatments into a BR. It was impossible. Just going by the acoustical nature of this awful room, and no I don't need a single damn measurement to tell me this is the case, because yes its that bad, I am 100% positive that 802Ds will sound like crap in there. I'll repeat, I heard 802Ds in a room that was so awful, I asked the dealer if the tweeters were blown. That bad. It was a dedicated room too. Krell monoblocks powering.

I would easily take a pair of Image bookshelves, or Ascends, or MA entry level stuff in my living room, which in of itself is not necessarily an acoustical dream either.

Then again, I am crazy...

-Andrew

Here, you have absolutely no argument.


OK, to make an analogy. I'd rather drive a Subaru on a nice winding road, than a Ferrari on glare ice, if I could only choose one, and that combination stuck everyday as long as I had the vehicle. A Ferrari is a Ferrari, but IMO its only effective when used in/on the proper medium. That's all I am saying.

If you have a nice room, well have at it! I still stand by my thought in choosing the nicer room over the nicer speaker. Even if the nicer room forces a downgrade in speaker choice, for whatever possible reason, I'd still choose the first in a heartbeat.

 

[fmw]

More expensive speakers (assuming cone or dome drivers) usually have more massive enclosures for less resonance, better isolation between the drivers and better crossover networks. They also have many times the gross profit built into their selling prices for the manufacturer and others down the line.

As mentioned above, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well. If you can afford them, the big heavy, expensive units normally perform really well.

 

[mazersteven]

I am with josten on this one. +1 for me. We can still be friends, though, right mazersteven?

I don't know. I might have to put you together in the same category with Joe. LOL

 

[mazersteven]

Yeah, but c'mon... to a point? Seriously. A 1k pair can sound quite fine, if not BW top-end level.

As much as I love the SVS MBS-01 speaker. Which IMO is one of, if not the best sounding $1000 speaker. It does not come close to the sound quality of a top level B&W speaker. Good room or not. We can agree to disagree.

 

[jostenmeat]

Respects mazer.

I'll most likely join you in your camp given enough time, if going by my past history. I was so excited about HT audio with the new crazy bitrates, and I think you mighta told me to settle down. I'm underwhelmed, if slightly pleased. You were also sometimes perplexed and bewildered why some people de-emphasized matching the front stage, and I know I have in the past. I'm in your camp now. Thanks for being patient with persons like me who are pretty avid, but arrived a lot later to the game here. I'll just say that maaaaaybe if you heard how bad my room was, you might think "ok, well in THIS case . . . ".

carry on.

 

[snappy_snoopy]

And what was your impression of the 803D?

Bloody Brilliant i loved the finish and they sounded superb lol the most expensive i heave heard ever

 

[snappy_snoopy]

yeah but remember our bias to good looking and expensive speakers

the 802D's are enough to make you think they sound spectacular

thats very true good looking ones makes you love the all the more no one like the ugly duckling

 

[WmAx]

Bloody Brilliant i loved the finish and they sounded superb lol the most expensive i heave heard ever

I think it only fair to point that cost does not have a direct correlation. While you won't be getting a $1000/pair speaker that matches the 802D because there is a certain base amount to even buy the parts and construction that will yield a specific level of performance.... once you get past that baseline... the rules of cost don't apply. Take for example Wilson's top line over $100k speaker system. It is substantially inferior in terms of cabinet resonance(which causes timbre coloration) and linearity(additional coloration) as compared to the $14k/pair B&W 802D. Just one such example where a lot more money gets you actual less performance......

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

If I was to use commercial speakers, then no doubt, the MBL 111B would fit the bill along with a proper high quality DSP EQ system such as Behringer DCX2496 or DEQ2496 to modify the treble balance and apply the ideal baffle step compensation(BSC) for my placement/room acoustics.

The MBL111B paired with the DSP EQ as listed, and possibly some premium quality stereo subs(crossed with a high quality DSP xover) such as JL Audio Fathom F113 or F112, would provide for very near, or even maximum, realistic stereo sound quality possible at any price, as long as the room acoustics are correct for the set-up.

I would not employ any special 'high-end' amplifiers or pre-amps or sources(turntable exempted to an extent since a TT system of appropriate low coloration may qualify as borderline high-end....) unless there was strictly a cosmetic reason, as these will not add ANY sound quality as compared to sensibly picked high quality pro amplifiers and a reasonably priced high quality receiver with pre-outs used as the pre-amplifier.

-Chris

 

[snappy_snoopy]

I think it only fair to point that cost does not have a direct correlation. While you won't be getting a $1000/pair speaker that matches the 802D because there is a certain base amount to even buy the parts and construction that will yield a specific level of performance.... once you get past that baseline... the rules of cost don't apply. Take for example Wilson's top line over $100k speaker system. It is substantially inferior in terms of cabinet resonance(which causes timbre coloration) and linearity(additional coloration) as compared to the $14k/pair B&W 802D. Just one such example where a lot more money gets you actual less performance......

-Chris

Either way the wilson range looks well lets say ...... how to put this gently "INTERESTING"

 

[mazersteven]

Take for example Wilson's top line over $100k speaker system. It is substantially inferior in terms of cabinet resonance(which causes timbre coloration) and linearity(additional coloration) as compared to the $14k/pair B&W 802D. Just one such example where a lot more money gets you actual less performance..

I auditioned the B&W 801D's vs. Wilson Watt Puppy's in the same room, with the same gear, at the same volume, with the same material. I preferred the Wilson's.

 

[WmAx]

I auditioned the B&W 801D's vs. Wilson Watt Puppy's in the same room, with the same gear, at the same volume, with the same material. I preferred the Wilson's.

That does not change the specific things I listed above.

I don't happen to like the sound of the 802D used straight. But.....

The B&W is the superior accurate device, making it more appropriate for shaping to one's ideal preferences using a powerful device such as the DCX2496.

Would you prefer a speaker that you can adjust to your ideal preference, or one that is colored from the start which can not be adjusted as closely to one's preference(due to the pre-existing coloration)?

One has to start with as little coloration as possible to effectively use these tone shaping tools.

-Chris

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The MBL111B paired with the DSP EQ as listed, and possibly some premium quality stereo subs(crossed with a high quality DSP xover) such as JL Audio Fathom F113 or F112, would provide for very near, or even maximum, realistic stereo sound quality possible at any price, as long as the room acoustics are correct for the set-up.

Too bad they don't make the MBL111B anymore.

 

[Warpdrv]

I would not employ any special 'high-end' amplifiers or pre-amps or sources(turntable exempted to an extent since a TT system of appropriate low coloration may qualify as borderline high-end....) unless there was strictly a cosmetic reason, as these will not add ANY sound quality as compared to sensibly picked high quality pro amplifiers and a reasonably priced high quality receiver with pre-outs used as the pre-amplifier.

-Chris

May I ask what you feel is a sensibly picked high quality pro amp would be....

Thanks

 

[mazersteven]

I don't happen to like the sound of the 802D used straight. But.....

The B&W is the superior accurate device, making it more appropriate for shaping to one's ideal preferences using a powerful device such as the DCX2496.

Would you prefer a speaker that you can adjust to your ideal preference, or one that is colored from the start which can not be adjusted as closely to one's preference(due to the pre-existing coloration)?

This is Just My Opinion.

But I don't believe in the use of a EQ. Especially when we are talking about the caliper of speaker costing $12,000-$20,000 a pair. We always talk about auditioning speakers to find the ones that sound best to our ears. If we are going to change the characteristics of a speaker. Why audition?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is Just My Opinion.

But I don't believe in the use of a EQ. Especially when we are talking about the caliper of speaker costing $12,000-$20,000 a pair. We always talk about auditioning speakers to find the ones that sound best to our ears. If we are going to change the characteristics of a speaker. Why audition?

I have to agree with Mazer on this one 100%!

 

[WmAx]

May I ask what you feel is a sensibly picked high quality pro amp would be....

Thanks

The Yamaha P**00S series seems to be the ticket. I have 3 of these in my system now. The fans do not activate in home use - only when used to the point where the heat sink exceeds 50C. Great SNR.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

This is Just My Opinion.

But I don't believe in the use of a EQ. Especially when we are talking about the caliper of speaker costing $12,000-$20,000 a pair. We always talk about auditioning speakers to find the ones that sound best to our ears. If we are going to change the characteristics of a speaker. Why audition?

You hit the nail on the head. Why go audition speakers? If one can afford a speaker like the 802D with it's level of low coloration combined with a high quality shaping tool like the DCX2496, you can achieve a substantially superior sound as compared to what you get by accepting the default built-in coloration from a speaker.

By picking speakers the traditional way, you are in part picking the hard-wired EQ that a particular designer picked. Why would anyone want to put up with a hard-wired EQ? It makes zero sense to push aside powerful/precision sound shaping devices if the intent is to find one's ideal sound signature. There are few speakers suited to my suggested method, but if you do it as suggested with sufficiently neutral speakers, the result will be superior.

-Chris