"mid range speaker" too "money no object speaker"

[snappy_snoopy]

Can someone please advise me on the difference between say a $2000 pair of speakers and a $20000 pair. I wonder is there really so much of an improvement to warrant the extra cost $18000, lets face it thats a huge amount of money either way and for the improvement would have to be monster wicked

I recently heard a top of the line 800 BW speaker and well i found it hard to see why i should be paying that much more. I am new too listening and hearing the audible difference and am only starting to pick up on some of the finer aspects of speaker design and the sound they produce. Is there something special i should be listening out for the next time i audition an pair, just because i can not that i can afford a pair lol

 

[snappy_snoopy]

After rethinking my question, i do understand that a greater cost usually also means you get a much better designed cabinet, better finish with real wood veneers and stuff, but i am talking purely from a performance point of view.
what wow factor am i meant to be listening out for

 

[mazersteven]

What 800 series speakers did you listen to?

The laws of "Diminishing Returns" is alive, and well in audio. In audio IMO there is a certain point (dollar level) in which your gain in sound quality becomes smaller, and smaller. This point can be different to everyone. But one can't expect a 50% increase in sound quality just because the cost of speakers in double.

 

[snappy_snoopy]

yes thats right i understand that, and thats why i was asking anyway let me find the booklet which i took home with me ......................................

Ok i listened to the 803D B&W

They look much more impressive in real life, the picture does not do them justice and they are superbly built.

I really wanted to see a pair of the NUATILIS snail like looking speakers but they had non, only by special order, I did ask but not the price

 

[mazersteven]

Your most likely never going to see a pair of B&W Nautilus inside a store. Maybe at the CES show. The Nautilus are hand made to order starting at $60,000 if I'm correct.

 

[3db]

Can someone please advise me on the difference between say a $2000 pair of speakers and a $20000 pair. I wonder is there really so much of an improvement to warrant the extra cost $18000, lets face it thats a huge amount of money either way and for the improvement would have to be monster wicked

I recently heard a top of the line 800 BW speaker and well i found it hard to see why i should be paying that much more. I am new too listening and hearing the audible difference and am only starting to pick up on some of the finer aspects of speaker design and the sound they produce. Is there something special i should be listening out for the next time i audition an pair, just because i can not that i can afford a pair lol

I wonder how much of the cost for isoteric speakers is name and exlcusivity?
Even the B&W Nautilus...although hand made...I can't help but think that the markup is somewhere to the point of unreal.

 

[Davemcc]

Things I listen for in a really good speaker.

Imaging - if you close your eyes, can you picture the location of every instrument on a stage. Are the oboe, flutes and basoon in the center of the soundstage, with the violins to the right and clarinets to the left in a seamless transition from left to right. Are the trumpets, trombones and percussion behind the strings and winds. You should be able to build a visual impression of the stage from the sound you hear.

Accuracy - Does a clarinet sound like a clarinet is in the room with you? Does a cello have an unnatural resonance that you would not hear in a live performance?

Transition - Does the speaker reproduce quick, sharp sounds then go silent, as in the case of a singe drum hit, or does the sound sort of taper off or linger for a split instant, just enough to take away the realism of the natural sound.

These are some of the things I listen for. I don't know if my terms or standards are proper. I know I haven't found a set of tower speakers that I really like because to my ear, most if not all seem to have a bloated resonance in the mid section that I find distracting but hard to accurately describe. In terms of speaker shopping, I guess I'm a subjectivist yet I defer to the objectivists nearly every time because they could (if they wanted) quantify my likes and dislikes in a speaker through measurable data. If you wanted to tackle this hobby with a vengeance, you could be able to look at speaker and cabinet measurements and know exactly what you will hear from a particular speaker before you actually hear it...with some degree of accuracy in the results.

But none of that will account for your personal likes and dislikes. Here I sit with a pair of Era D5 and a pair of Dynaudio Focus 140 at twice the price. As a rule, I leave the Era in the system and the Dyne's on standby simply because the Era sound pleases me for most situations. There is no question in my mind that the Dyne's would measure better in virtually every test and are fantastic speakers in there own right on virtually any source. So why do I listen to the Era so much? I don't know...I guess there's no accounting for taste.

 

[Davemcc]

Oops, I meant to say violins to the left and clarinets to the right. I still haven't learned my left from my right.

 

[snappy_snoopy]

thanks that was a very informative post. I am really beginning to enjoy the stereo transition sounds. The more i listen the more i pick up on and the more i read the more i understand what makes a good loudspeaker but you are right just because they are mega expensive does not mean they sounds mega giga times better

 

[snappy_snoopy]

Your most likely never going to see a pair of B&W Nautilus inside a store. Maybe at the CES show. The Nautilus are hand made to order starting at $60,000 if I'm correct.

Yeah and i bet thats in US$$ aswell right? Well one little student can hope right anyways if i owned a B&W hi fi store i would have a pair sitting around just i can listen to them and show off a little i find they are one of the sexiest speakers i have seen to date, if you know of any cooler ones, maybe more unconventional feel free to post them

 

[mazersteven]

if you know of any cooler ones, maybe more unconventional feel free to post them

This has been posted before. But for those that haven't seen it.

THE WORLD'S 56 MOST EXPENSIVE SPEAKERS
http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ok i listened to the 803D B&W

And what was your impression of the 803D?

 

[jostenmeat]

Can someone please advise me on the difference between say a $2000 pair of speakers and a $20000 pair. I wonder is there really so much of an improvement to warrant the extra cost $18000, lets face it thats a huge amount of money either way and for the improvement would have to be monster wicked

I recently heard a top of the line 800 BW speaker and well i found it hard to see why i should be paying that much more. I am new too listening and hearing the audible difference and am only starting to pick up on some of the finer aspects of speaker design and the sound they produce. Is there something special i should be listening out for the next time i audition an pair, just because i can not that i can afford a pair lol

snoops, I think the big pink elephant in the room, is, well, the room. FWIW, I've heard some 802Ds in the worst room ever, I in fact, no joke, asked the dealer if the tweeters were blown.

Heard them elsewhere, and realized why these speakers are a benchmark of sorts.

So, I believe setup, and acoustics are just as important as the speakers chosen. I will take a 1k pair in a good room over a 20k pair in a bad room, very very very easily.

Takes some research, and some space, which could be hard to come by. For me, the most easily detectable improvement with speakers is simply transparency. Then, does the timbre of any instrument stay consistent throughout the range? BWs do this very well, IMO. Better than my electrostat hybrids, but I get a midrange transparency that I heartily enjoy, at the compromises of smaller sweetspot, more difficult space implementations, and even greater need for acoustical treatments.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think the big pink elephant in the room, is, well, the room. FWIW, I've heard some 802Ds in the worst room ever, I in fact, no joke, asked the dealer if the tweeters were blown.

I agree completely. I've heard a pair of B&W 800Ds sound very mediocre simply because I think the room was a mess acoustically.

With that being said, I would just love to own 5 of those 800Ds.

 

[mazersteven]

And what was your impression of the 803D?

From his original post it doesn't sound like he impressed.

I love the 803D's myself.

 

[mazersteven]

I will take a 1k pair in a good room over a 20k pair in a bad room, very very very easily.

I wouldn't go that far.

I agree that the room/acoustics has a lot to do with sound quality. But a pair of B&W 802D's, are still 802D's.

 

[jostenmeat]

I wouldn't go that far.

I agree that the room/acoustics has a lot to do with sound quality. But a pair of B&W 802D's, are still 802D's.

Sure, of course. OTOH, a bad room, is well, a bad room, and no matter how good the speakers are, they will sound like crap. And in my experiences, not even 802Ds are immune.

I guess all I'm saying is that some rooms don't deserve great speakers, even if there's money to blow. That the extra money will do nothing. Like buying a Porsche roadster to go off-roading or something. Oh wait, that reminds me of the Triad Dude quote . . .

Or perhaps another implied point is that one could take any particular budget, and split that intelligently between treatments and speakers.

 

[Nuance AH]

I wouldn't go that far.

I agree that the room/acoustics has a lot to do with sound quality. But a pair of B&W 802D's, are still 802D's.

I am with josten on this one. +1 for me. We can still be friends, though, right mazersteven?

 

[mike c]

yeah but remember our bias to good looking and expensive speakers

the 802D's are enough to make you think they sound spectacular

 

[avaserfi]

So, I believe setup, and acoustics are just as important as the speakers chosen. I will take a 1k pair in a good room over a 20k pair in a bad room, very very very easily.

I find that a hard choice to make. The main reason being a good room will be more revealing of the inherent weaknesses (primarily polar response and resonances) in a low quality speaker. So you end up with a great room and it shows off how bad your speakers are .

For me I will take the expensive pair of nice German Physiks omnis, if we are talking commercial, and a properly treated room...why are we limiting ourselves here its all theoretical . Then again, I am crazy...

-Andrew