Microsoft Xbox 360 Details & Specs

nick_danger

nick_danger

Audioholic
Regarding the surround sound, I watched the live streaming press conference last night and found out what the big deal was about 360's new multi-channel offerings. The console will support a "minimum" of 5.1. So perhaps we'll see real-time DTS, DTS-ES, DD-EX in addition to standard DD if a developer wishes to utilize it.

I just have to say to Microsoft: bravo! Click the link and watch last night's conference. I'll tell ya, they speak like they've found the Holy Grail, but I'm a believer at this point. Backwards compatibility is confirmed now, by the way, although the use of the term "best-selling" Xbox games is somewhat elusive... either intentionally or unintentionally. Not all PS1 games worked with PS2, so they might just be covering bases.

Also, the interface and compatibility with other devices is just AWESOME! Watch the whole thing if you can because there are a number of really great demos of games and features. Microsoft certainly has no problem proving how they rule the software world.

http://metahost.savvislive.com/microsoft/20050516/e3_press_20050516_300.asx
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
Which PS1 games wouldn't work in your P2? Out of over 100 I've tried, every one worked.
 
nick_danger

nick_danger

Audioholic
Rob Babcock said:
Which PS1 games wouldn't work in your P2? Out of over 100 I've tried, every one worked.
No, I never had a problem, but there were some obscure titles that didn't work with some early BIOSes of the PS2 - at least that's what I had read.

Mega2000, that stream is as good as it gets at this point. Even the low-res stream was ****e last night with the hordes of people trying to watch it. I'm sure we won't see anything better until after E3 - unless you pay to join Gamespot Complete or some other premium E3 coverage site. I had heard that Gamespot was covering the entire show in high-def, but I lack both the will and desire to look it up myself.
 
Playstation 3 vs. Xbox 360

<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/Playstation3vsXbox360.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 90px; HEIGHT: 100px" alt=[playstation3front1] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/playstation3front1_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>As this was the week for major gaming platform announcements at E3, including both the </FONT><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/Playstation3vsXbox360.php"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Xbox 360 and Sony's new Playstation 3</FONT></A><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>, we decided to give a quick run-down of the differences and similarities between the two platforms based on the information that is now wildly circulating around the Internet. This could be considered the </FONT><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/Playstation3vsXbox360.php"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Playstation 3 vs. Xbox 360 comparison</FONT></A><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2> for all who are looking to make a purchase this coming year. For raw processing power, the specs seem to favor the Playstation 3 - but Microsoft's first to market approach and push for a central media center solution will be interesting to watch as consumers decide which direction to take in 2006. One thing is for sure, the face of gaming has taken yet another quantum leap and has been forever changed.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>[</FONT><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/Playstation3vsXbox360.php"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Compare the Xbox 360 vs. the Playstation 3</FONT></A><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>]</FONT></P>
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
And so far neither one has announced a game I want to play, let alone pay for. :rolleyes:
 
HookedOnSound

HookedOnSound

Full Audioholic
I am simply amazed at the technology.

But like R&R Ninja stated, there is probably only a handful of games that interest me.

I have relatives that have PS and PS2 units so if I am going to buy a console, I am leaning towards PS3 since I will probably be able to get my Brother and my Mother-in-Law (yes, that is what I said) to come over with their legacy games @ family dinners, etc.
 
A

ArxFatalis

Enthusiast
Hmm... It seems like yesterday when microsoft announced their xbox and sony announced their playstation 2 . Let´s see if this time SONY delivers ,because their so called "emotion engine" back in 2000 was supposed to give life like graphics and make the SEGA dreamcast look like crap. Fast forward 5 years and we see that ps2 was nothing but hype backed up by an excellent marketing team and inflated overrated numbers...

I´ve been playing consoles since the colecovision and technology has reached a point in which raw power is not that important anymore. There won´t be significant differences between xbox 360 and ps3 ( both have similar specs) Game developers have to concentrate on new ways of playing games .... It´s not about better graphics but on delivering new "gaming experiences". Let´s see if NINTENDO with their new revolution console delivers and for the first time in years we start to play games in a different way. :)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
And so far neither one has announced a game I want to play, let alone pay for
Agreed. Until I can get a really cool space combat Sim (preferably a Star Trek one) or a slick multi player hand to hand combat game, I will stick to Pac Man :)

Oh yea, hockey and boxing are cool too...
 
SilverMK3

SilverMK3

Audioholic
The part that I find the most interesting, from a technology-enthusiast's point of view, is the fact that all of these new consoles have embraced the multi-core CPU idea. In order for an application (game) to take advantage of those multiple cores, it has to be programmed in such a way that every task is divided into "threads" that execute simultaneously and in parallel. Its a completely different way of designing software and it hasn't really been used in game programming at all.

In the PC world, for example, the only multithreaded apps are databases, graphics, and video software; games have almost exclusively been designed to work with only one CPU.

AMD, for example, has planned their CPU roadmap behind the following Idea:
- Athlon FX: extremely high clock speed "gamer" cpu
- Athlon X2: dual-core medium clock speed "workstation" cpu
- Athlon 64: medium to high clock speed "consumer" cpu
- Sempron: low clock speed "budget" cpu

Obviously they didn't consider that all of the console games are going to be multicored/multithreaded, possibly revolutionizing game design across all platforms... Its going to be an exciting time in the gaming world for the next few years. A complete paradigm shift! I can't wait :D
 
S

slmcdonald7

Junior Audioholic
Rob Babcock said:
I have next to no use for online gaming, myself. I virtually never use Xbox Live for any purpose other than downloads. But I can see the appeal, I guess.
You should really try Halo 2 on-line. It absolutely changed the way I think about video games. I have no doubt that the next big thing in console video gaming will be internet connectivity. For that reason alone, I will probably pick up an Xbox 360 rather than a PS3, unless the PS3 will support similar on-line gaming features.


Rob Babcock said:
As this was the week for major gaming platform announcements at E3, including both the Xbox 360 and Sony's new Playstation 3, we decided to give a quick run-down of the differences and similarities between the two platforms based on the information that is now wildly circulating around the Internet. This could be considered the Playstation 3 vs. Xbox 360 comparison for all who are looking to make a purchase this coming year. For raw processing power, the specs seem to favor the Playstation 3 - but Microsoft's first to market approach and push for a central media center solution will be interesting to watch as consumers decide which direction to take in 2006. One thing is for sure, the face of gaming has taken yet another quantum leap and has been forever changed.

[Compare the Xbox 360 vs. the Playstation 3]
Kudos to Audioholics for putting together such a helpful guide. Nice work guys!
 
nick_danger

nick_danger

Audioholic
Interview with Xbox360 VP Todd Holmdahl, Hardware:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1817031,00.asp

Confirms the following:
Pregressive-scan DVD playback, but no upconversion. Lame.
NO 1080p support. Lame.
NO DVI or HDMI. WAY Lame.
Wi-Fi is not included, but will be supported from day one. Read: "wifi adapter sold seperately" 802.11a, b, g... Kinda lame...
Much quieter than Xbox1. Sweet
All footage so far is from Alpha kits, which are operating at 30-40% of 360's final power. Way sweet!

I just have to stop now and reiterate my complete and UTTER disappointment in Microsoft for not supplying DVI or HDMI output on this device. Component video doesnt' "suck", per se, but it lacks the crispness and rock-steady refresh abilities of DVI. I'm disillusioned because Microsoft says this is the "HD era", but they are only complying with the most basic of connections and not supporting 1080p is such a lame move. I take back what I said regarding 360 games looking better in the long run, PS3 will probably evenutually beat out 360 in appearence. They have an advantage by just supporting HDMI connectors! A multi-platform 720p game will probably wind up having better contrast, color, and crispness JUST because of that. Nice move MS...

It should be noted that there's still a good 6 months before 360 hits shelves, so many thing can and probably will change, but I hope Microsoft gets on the ball with DVI or HDMI. If you expect to have a console that lasts 5+ years, you HAVE to offer future-proof technology.

Also, it turns out that the majority of the "demos" unveiled in the PS3 camp were pre-rendered FMV sequences not done on PS3 hardware, so the chances of PS3 games looking like what we've seen thus far will be remote - at least for some time.
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
The new PS3 has not only HDMI outputs, but will drive two monitors with a full 1080P output! :eek: As I suspected, it's confirmed that the PS3 will play the 10,000 PSX & PS2 games. It's also twice as powerful (2 teraflops vs the 1 TF of the Box2), and supports 7 wireless controllers simultaneously. It looks like in pure horsepower, the new Box will get a mudhole stomped in its arse ( 3 x 3.2 gig procs in the 'box vs 7 x 3.2 procs combined in the Cell), but I'm sure it won't matter- both will look great.

It's also confirmed now that both the PS3 and the Nintendo Revolution will be potent internet portals, too. I normally don't have much respect for Nintendo, but in a move that verges on brilliant, their new machine will be a "virtual console" that will allow you to play thousands of old classic SNES, N64 and even NES games! Hopefully Shingen the Ruler! :D Plus, it's going to be backwards compatible with the GameCube. That oughta inspire sales somewhat. Processor-wise, it's a joke compared to the Sony & MS models, but it should suffice for the soft-core gamers that buy Nintendo games.
 
nick_danger

nick_danger

Audioholic
I don't really feel like getting into an overly deep technical discussion, but the PS3 numbers are highly over-inflated. The 360 has three 3.2GHz PPE cores. The PS3 has one 3.2GHz PPE core with seven SPEs (and one redundant SPE). The 2 TFLOPS number for the PS3 is a misnomer as well as it assumes only single-precision calculations, which are often error prone. When it comes to the application of the Cell within the bounds of producing game graphics, A.I, audio, physics, etc, the Cell and GPU must produce double-precision calculations which results in a 10:1 hit in performance. So the realistic output of the PS3 is reduced significantly.

The 2 TFLOPS number is actually two-fold: 1.8 TFLOPS for the nVidia GPU and .2 TFLOPS for the Cell. But that claimed 256 GFLOPS bandwidth within the Cell is realistically only 25 GFLOPS in application. You'll notice that the actual DP performance of the Cell matches nearly perfectly with the memory bandwidth of the console: ~25GB/sec. Coincidence? I think not. This is why Sony is renound for inflating their numbers.

The only company worse than Sony for inflating numbers is nVidia, so they make a good pairing. When it comes down to the actual graphic system, Xbox360 has the upper hand. The nVidia chip is a rather conventional design for a console, much like what they supplied for Xbox1, but of course NOTHING like Xbox1. It's much more powerful. The GPU in both consoles tap out at around 25-30GB/sec in bandwidth, but the ATI chip has direct access to whatever amount of the 512MB of system memory the CPU isn't using while the nVidia chip is restricted to 256MB. Both use GDDR3 at 700MHz so the ATI GPU has more headroom - not that it will necessarily need it.

The secret to what I believe will be why the 360 will look better than the PS3 in most, if not all games, is the embedded 10MB EDRAM tied directly to the GPU core. It provides the console with the ability to do 4X anti-aliasing on multisampled pixels at a rate of 256GB/sec with ZERO performance hit on the CPU or the rest of the GPU. These added effects and enhancements really take a toll on performance, so to get them "for free" makes a huge difference in application. This means that the console is free to expend all the power that would normally be used to give the game visual polish on other things like A.I, sound, physics, you name it.

As for actual graphic output, the result remain to be seen. Support for dual 1080p displays does not mean it will ever actually be utilized. Considering the majority of content shown at the PS3 press conference was not actual gameplay footage, but CGI, I'm certainly hesitant to buy into any of PS3s hype. Even if the final products show PS3 with a marginal hardware advantage, it will be very hard to beat 360's friendly user interface, online capabilities, and Microsoft's industry-leading developer support.
 
N

no man

Audioholic
alright...i'm no fan of any particular consle, but currently i find the xbox 360 more attractive than the others. Firstly, Nintendo's new thing is off my list because they totaly blew the gamecube out of proportion, and sucked me into a trap. Play Station3 well.. i'm not sure because the points listed before really deflate it. The main reason i want the new x-box is because...hopefully there will be another Halo game :D. Also because i can trust the the online will be worthwhile unlike Nintendo's Gamecube, which i mistakenly bought. :mad: I suppose its more of a trust thing. Microsofts been really obsessed with the Xbox and have been realesing less computer games, and more xbox game...if this trend continues...i want to be prepared...also because my computer (compared to my friends costom made computer) is a total piece of crap and consle game are more fun because they dont lag as much (unless maybe you're playing online). In my opinion, ps3 will be kill and its grave shal be danced upon..and its overinflated numbers and the xbox360 will prevail.


(xbox360 will be able to support 720p and 1080i resolution in 16:9 or normal...i dont know what you've heard..but go check the site out..its under the paragraph titled "games" and its also found in the table-High-Definition Game Support section
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm )
 
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N

no man

Audioholic
:confused: Can anyone help me find the price and release date for the xbox360 (canada)??? :confused:
 
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nick_danger

nick_danger

Audioholic
no man said:
:confused: Can anyone help me find the price and release date for the xbox360 (canada)??? :confused:
A couple things:

Xbox360 supports 720p and 1080i, but it doesn't support 1080p like the PS3 does. On top of that, PS3 supports DUAL 1080p output. That's certainly a "wow factor" selling point, even though I don't have two 1080p displays side-by-side.

Xbox360 pricing and official release date is still unknown. The underground is claiming that they are sticking to the standard $300 pricepoint to maximize sales. Microsoft is going for an unprecidented worlwide release, so Japan, North America (that includes Canada, just in case you didn't learn that in Canada-school ;) ), and Europe will get them all within the same time-frame: November.
 
N

no man

Audioholic
whats the difference between 1080i and 1080p? and i have no use for two screens, i have 2 standard tvs and if i get it, it will use one of them. I know/knew about the planned worldwide release, but all i knew was in the fall/winter sometime. Thanks for the info.
 
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