microphone for denon setup, alternatives?

[denon]

Is there another microphone that one can use to do the automatic surround sound setup for the denon avr 3805? i'd hate to spend yet another $65 if there were another alternative from radioshack or some other place...thanks

 

[Mr.T]

After buying one of the most sofisticated/hawsome receiver, it doesn't make sense to add a piece of junk microphone to do your surround sound allignment, besides you'll never know if it's going to work the way it should, untill you'll bring it home and try.

I recommend you spend the $ 65 for the original mic, other unexpensive mics might not work properly with the receiver.

Mr.T

 

[Duffinator]

Good point Mr. T.

Denon, you can buy an SPL meter at RS for less than the mic costs. According to the Audioholics review, setting the sound level was slightly more accurate set manually. But it won't adjust the EQ settings. Then you will always have the meter, which you can use to set your friends systems and they will be impressed with how smart you are.

 

[Mr.T]

Duffinator,
how many friends of his could possibly need this allignment?
I am not saying that your advice is wrong, but it is unwise, because there are a lot of different kind of condenser mics out there, they all have different kind of transducers, some are excellent, some leave a lot to be desired.

This SPL meter showed at this website is an average cost SPL meter and it costs $ 49.95, so you save a few dollars in comparison to the original Denon Mic.
www.zzounds.com/item--GXYCM130

Usually better condenser mics could cost a couple hundred dollars or more. What I am getting at is, Denon will never sell you a chip or inferior microphone, and obviously Denon had chosen this particular mic and not another for a reason. So why jeopardize in making a perfect surround sound allignment, the way Denon wants you to do it. You'll be the Judge.

Mr.T

 

[Mort Corey]

IIRC, Denon has the mic specs on their web site that I guess you could research and find something compatable for less money. It does kind of (pardon my French) suck that it's included with the 2805 and costs extra on the 3805......but it's worth it (at least it was to me). It comes in handy every time you move something, add something or just want to double check the settings. I bought a SPL meter just to double check the Denon mic....just because

Mort

 

[mtrycrafts]

Duffinator,
how many friends of his could possibly need this allignment?

Don't know how many he has
But, probably every one with a 5.1 system


I am not saying that your advice is wrong, but it is unwise, because there are a lot of different kind of condenser mics out there, they all have different kind of transducers, some are excellent, some leave a lot to be desired.

I think he menttioned an spl meter, not a mic to plug into his component to auto align his setup, hence that spl meter will work in anyone's home perfectly well to level match all the speakers


This SPL meter showed at this website is an average cost SPL meter and it costs $ 49.95, so you save a few dollars in comparison to the original Denon Mic.
www.zzounds.com/item--GXYCM130

The Radio Shack is less. Used to be about $30 but then it was increased due to demand

Usually better condenser mics could cost a couple hundred dollars or more. What I am getting at is, Denon will never sell you a chip or inferior microphone, and obviously Denon had chosen this particular mic and not another for a reason. So why jeopardize in making a perfect surround sound allignment, the way Denon wants you to do it. You'll be the Judge.

Mr.T

Yes, if the mic is plugged into the componet for auto setup and EQ. YThe spl meter is not plugged in.

 

[Mr.T]

mtrycrafts,
if denon thought that an SPL meter would have worked just as good or better than the plug in mic to do the surround sound set up, don't you think denon would have offered it's customers an SPL meter instead of a mic?

Mr.T

 

[mtrycrafts]

mtrycrafts,
if denon thought that an SPL meter would have worked just as good or better than the plug in mic to do the surround sound set up, don't you think denon would have offered it's customers an SPL meter instead of a mic?

Mr.T

Actually, not. Denon as some others before that has auto level setup features. Some work some don't work so well. Some react to any outside noise and mess up the distances or levels, others don't, at times.
It is a feature, nothing more, nothing less, unless it also includes EQ feature. That is another story, but, some outside nois will still mess it up.

So, them offering this feature is irrelevant to how good an spl can level match the 5 .1 speakers, or how well you can measure the distance and enter it for the delay.

Some customers like the auto feature and it is a good lelling feature. No big deal.

 

[Duffinator]

Mr. T., Mtrycrafts covered me pretty well.

Many receivers have some sort of auto setup and overall I think that's a good thing. But if you read the review of the Denon 3805, which I recently purchased, you will see that they are not 100% accurate. Again, a sound meter won't adjust the EQ settings, which is not of much interest to me. Read the review at the link below:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Denon-AVR3805_review01.php

 

[MarkSJohnson]

What's it worth if not calibrated?

Please excuse me for cross-posting this, but I posted it on the Axiom BBS a month or so ago, and feel it's relevant:

I have a Denon 3805 that has an auto-calibration feature using an available Denon mic, or, according to Denon, you can use another mic if you wish. I don't understand how that can be? Doesn't the calibration require a mic that has a known frequency response?

If the Denon-supplied mic is down -4db at 38Hz, the receiver could automatically add 4db to it's readings at 38Hz to make up for the mics lack of ruler-flat response. But if a user can supply their own mic, doesn't ANY sense of a reference disappear from the get-go? How could the receiver adjust itself to the readings from a listener's position if the readings themselves are not from a calibrated, adjusted source?

I've wondered about that since buying the receiver a couple of months ago, even though I know many say that the auto-calibration doesn't sound that good anyway (Ummm, maybe this is WHY?).

Anyway, on to the second part of the question:
I have the Radio Shack sound level meter in a box somewhere I musta bought it 20 years ago. But just like the Denon situation above, how do I know that IT is accurate? I know the RS meter is widely used, but is that because of accuracy or inexpensiveness and convenience? Does IT adjust for anomalies in its built-in mic?

Here's why I ask: A good part of my business is audio production. Towards that end, I have a nice selection of mics, including a Rode large-diaphragm studio mic with an ART tube mic preamp that I use in a voiceover soundbooth. I'm not saying that the combination is inherently flatter than the RS meters' mic. In fact, the warmth from the tubes and mic might actually lean them towards being decidedly unflat.

But if that $30 Radio Shack meter with it's $5 mic is NOT being adjusted for by the meter, might it not be better to use some much, much higher quality electronics to obtain my readings?

BTW, I'm not really this anal with most things in life! I just think it's an interesting hypothetical discussion on a widely-used test instrument and practice.

What Say Ye, Oh Mighty Forum Members? How Hath Ye Measured?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Please excuse me for cross-posting this, but I posted it on the Axiom BBS a month or so ago, and feel it's relevant:

I have a Denon 3805 that has an auto-calibration feature using an available Denon mic, or, according to Denon, you can use another mic if you wish. I don't understand how that can be? Doesn't the calibration require a mic that has a known frequency response?

If the Denon-supplied mic is down -4db at 38Hz, the receiver could automatically add 4db to it's readings at 38Hz to make up for the mics lack of ruler-flat response. But if a user can supply their own mic, doesn't ANY sense of a reference disappear from the get-go? How could the receiver adjust itself to the readings from a listener's position if the readings themselves are not from a calibrated, adjusted source?

I've wondered about that since buying the receiver a couple of months ago, even though I know many say that the auto-calibration doesn't sound that good anyway (Ummm, maybe this is WHY?).

Anyway, on to the second part of the question:
I have the Radio Shack sound level meter in a box somewhere I musta bought it 20 years ago. But just like the Denon situation above, how do I know that IT is accurate? I know the RS meter is widely used, but is that because of accuracy or inexpensiveness and convenience? Does IT adjust for anomalies in its built-in mic?

Here's why I ask: A good part of my business is audio production. Towards that end, I have a nice selection of mics, including a Rode large-diaphragm studio mic with an ART tube mic preamp that I use in a voiceover soundbooth. I'm not saying that the combination is inherently flatter than the RS meters' mic. In fact, the warmth from the tubes and mic might actually lean them towards being decidedly unflat.

But if that $30 Radio Shack meter with it's $5 mic is NOT being adjusted for by the meter, might it not be better to use some much, much higher quality electronics to obtain my readings?

BTW, I'm not really this anal with most things in life! I just think it's an interesting hypothetical discussion on a widely-used test instrument and practice.

What Say Ye, Oh Mighty Forum Members? How Hath Ye Measured?

The mic designated for the receiver, its known response is of importance for EQ purpose, not level matching of channels.
It would also depend on how many freuency points the receiver can EQ. I am fairly sure it is not a 1/3 octave EQ in there but only a few points that may or may not cover down to the 30Hz. That would be good to know as mics usually better in the mid bands

You may want to find the RS meter and see if it still works. There is an on line table to acount for its response curve. You may need to do a google search

 

[Mr.T]

MtryCrafts,
unfortunately most unexpensive SPL meters have cheap condenser mics in them and that's one of the reasons why I think using Denon condenser mic should give you a better set up.

Mr.T

 

[mtrycrafts]

MtryCrafts,
unfortunately most unexpensive SPL meters have cheap condenser mics in them and that's one of the reasons why I think using Denon condenser mic should give you a better set up.

Mr.T

I certainly understand what you are driving at. However, this discussion depends on what one is trying to accomplish, level match all speakers or EQ within the receiver's capability.

To level match the speakers, the price of the mic is irrelevant as long as it will repeat and RS will. All one is interested is the levels being as close as possible. Auto mode will not guarantee that; it may. It matters not if the levels are matched at 74dB spl or 76 dB spl as long as all speakers are equally loud.
EQ is another story if you can manually change the EQ at frequencies that need changing and the receiver is able to change those frequencies.

 

[WmAx]

Is there another microphone that one can use to do the automatic surround sound setup for the denon avr 3805? i'd hate to spend yet another $65 if there were another alternative from radioshack or some other place...thanks

The Behringer ECM8000 is a precision measurement microphone that typically has error +/- 1 db accuracy from 20hz to 15kHz, with sligthly higher error at 20khz. The earliest version(from years ago once reported by Arny Kreugar-may have jsut been a defetive item) of this mic had some problems with low frequency response, but I am not aware of this being a problem on any current version of this microphone. Available for approx. $40 USD.

-Chris