highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
The geezers I was referring to are people near or at retirement who have considerable funds, like about $1M, in IRA. 401K, and 403b retirement accounts. That number is probably somewhere between 500,000 and a million people, and there are millions more who have between $500,000 and a million dollars. It is my thesis that the wealth tax will generate nowhere near as much income as Warren and her economists claim and she will then have to go after the merely well-off. And the majority of these assets are in retirement accounts.

I profoundly hate Warren's plan. It includes two concepts that are IMO un-American. First is that obnoxious wealth tax, which I believe will, like AMT before it, be applied very broadly as it fails to raise the revenue it promises, and mark-to-market, which taxes unrealized capital gains on stocks. Warren and her economists (and that idiot senator Ron Wyden) use the argument that real estate taxes already do this and we all accept them, but real estate has nowhere near the volatility of equities, meaning you could pay taxes on a unrealized gain and have a loss the next business day.

The plan also includes a transaction tax on equities. 0.1%, how bad could it be? For one thing, taxes never stay low, and for another she targets it at "the top 1% of households". Now how will she do that? Wealth or income? If wealth, will we all have to have our wealth appraised?

Her plan includes massive range of tax increases, all of which will be passed on to every consumer. It also includes the provisions of the Sanders plan, which uses "compulsory licensing" for drug patents when the Pharma companies don't comply with their arbitrary pricing demands, so drug industry investment will plummet.

The rays of hope if Warren is somehow elected is that Congress won't approved these obnoxious plans, and that even it does the Supreme Court will rule most of this nonsense unconstitutional. And the combined arguments may take years. On the other hand I see and hear a lot of people supporting it because they think they can have other people pay for it and not them. So stupid.
I'm offended by your use of the word 'geezer' for people who are approaching retirement, as I am in that age group. The difference is that I'm working on my second million- gave up on the first a long time ago. :)

She and others who think this kind of plan will work are unable to do simple math- if they gave their ideas as much thought as they give their own finances, they wouldn't paint such an optimistic picture of their lunacy. As the program fails, they'll eventually dip lower into the income range until they reach those who don't pay income tax which, as Mitt Romney was roasted for, amounts to over 45% of people of wage-earning age in the US. He can count this fact as a major reason for losing the election but it's still a fact. The .1% real estate tax will be added to the surcharge that was included in the ACA and it was added to the health care bill for reasons that we know- they'll slip this kind of crap into any bill that's so long nobody will read the whole thing.

More people need to think about this without so much trust in government- they seem to think our government has only noble reasons for what they do when it comes to "helping people" but not when the goal is to ensure the country's survival. No country can spend $52 trillion.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I can’t believe that anyone is stupid enough to believe warren. her hand is so deep in the cookie jar that it’s silly she makes about 100,000 a year or whatever as a senator makes , but she’s worth over 300 million how does that add up
It only adds up that she’s got her hand in the illegal cookie jar and just making her self so rich every one of the Democrats are like that even Republicans
but I wouldn’t believe a goddamn word from any of the Democrats
and hell no to universal healthcare it would ruin the foundation of the United States and anyone who does not understand that is a plain out idiot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Warren's net worth is about $12 million-

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan

A former insurance CEO, Mr. Silvers gets it right. We're on a NY Times roll here.
I agree with everything he says, but he says nothing about paying for it.

A big part of Medicare for All is that it isn't Medicare as we know it, which might be feasible. Sander's proposed bill goes far beyond current Medicare. Sander's bill has no deductibles, no co-pays, no premiums, and covers dental and vision. As anyone familiar with the current Medicare program knows, it isn't like that. Calling Sander's bill Medicare for All is fraudulent, IMO. The argument that the conversation has to start somewhere is naive. Sander's bill and Warren's bullshit is postponing the real discussion, not helping it. Just like the wealth tax proposals are not helping to fix the broken taxation system we have, they just divert the conversation to ridiculous proposals already abandoned by countries with economic policies we do not admire.

The ACA did indeed put more pressure on the private insurance industry, because it made it illegal to consider pre-existing conditions for coverage, and it forced companies to cover dependent children until age 26. These were huge changes, even Republicans liked them, and we forget what it was like before the ACA because it was years ago.

I am a proponent of a public option that would be self-funded. If the federal government would really be so much more efficient than private insurance the premiums for a public option would be significantly lower than equivalent private options. I think it's also a good idea to allow the government to negotiate for lower drug prices, but not to the point of confiscating patents, just like private insurers do. And if the net result was lower costs in the public option it would be a great case for single-payer solutions.

But Medicare as we know it is not a preferred option when others are available. My evidence? The federal government itself. When a federal worker retires with a sufficient number of years of experience (10) they have the option to retain their government medical benefits for life. They are still eligible for Medicare, and the private options will coordinate with Medicare to pay for services, but most federal retirees keep the private coverage, even though it costs more. Why? Because it's superior. In the end it provides better services, more provider options, and the cost difference isn't that great when including the supplemental plans you probably need with Medicare.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
Nonsense. We need to start somewhere and we need to start now.

Conservatives in the 60's created the same argument against President Johnson's Medicare, Medicaid plan.

Well, wouldn't you know it, when they (the Cons) turned 65, guess what? They all signed up for LBJ's evil Medicare plan. Hypocrites.

Let me propose a challenge to you Irv, when you turn 65, you stay off Medicare for the rest of your life. I dare you. No, I double-dare you. You won't do it.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Nonsense. We need to start somewhere and we need to start now.

Conservatives in the 60's created the same argument against President Johnson's Medicare, Medicaid plan.

Well, wouldn't you know it, when they (the Cons) turned 65, guess what? They all signed up for LBJ's evil Medicare plan. Hypocrites.

Let me propose a challenge to you Irv, when you turn 65, you stay off Medicare for the rest of your life. I dare you. No, I double-dare you.
Why? He has paid into Medicare for decades, like the rest of us who pay FICA.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Let me propose a challenge to you Irv, when you turn 65, you stay off Medicare for the rest of your life. I dare you. No, I double-dare you. You won't do it.
A double-dare? What are we, 12 years old? I get private benefits for life.
 
kystorm

kystorm

Audioholic
It amazes me when people clamor for more government intervention over their lives.
Can't say I have an answer to the problem, but turning over something as important as healthcare to an entity that does few things right is just plain crazy.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
I get private benefits for life. I get private benefits for life. I get private benefits for life.

Most Americans don't. I don't.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
Astronomical health care costs and lack of access continue to drive individuals, families, and businesses past their breaking point while insurance companies continue to soak-up billions of health care dollars as millions of children’s basic needs go unmet. Medicare has provided guaranteed health care for millions of seniors for more than 51 years. It’s time we have a Medicare for all, single-payer health care system that would end health disparities, effectively control costs, and assure that everyone has equal access to an excellent standard of care.

The time is now.

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Astronomical health care costs and lack of access continue to drive individuals, families, and businesses past their breaking point while insurance companies continue to soak-up billions of health care dollars as millions of children’s basic needs go unmet. Medicare has provided guaranteed health care for millions of seniors for more than 51 years. It’s time we have a Medicare for all, single-payer health care system that would end health disparities, effectively control costs, and assure that everyone has equal access to an excellent standard of care.

The time is now.

Why are you being so dense? Medicare for All is not Medicare. Not even close. When there's a practical proposal for single-payer healthcare I'll probably be one of the first in line to support it. Until then, I'm calling out fraudulent, impractical, anyone-pays-but-me bullshit when I see it, and I'm not going to support a candidate who makes such fraudulent claims. We already have Trump, why would anyone want another misrepresenter of the facts in the presidency?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I get private benefits for life. I get private benefits for life. I get private benefits for life.

Most Americans don't. I don't.
Every federal employee does, including postal workers. Many school teachers do. Many state workers (like California) do. Most private sector workers don't.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
Stop hiding behind your elite, plush office surroundings, your expensive audio components, your beautiful home located on several acres and and your private benefits for life.

This is about real Americans Irv, not well-off Americans like you.

The more you post, the more you reveal about yourself. Shame on you.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Stop hiding behind your elite, plush office surroundings, your expensive audio components, your beautiful home located on several acres and and your private benefits for life.

This is about real Americans Irv, not well-off Americans like you.

The more you post, the more you reveal about yourself. Shame on you.
You're very funny. My home is on 1/4 acre.

My private benefits for life are because my wife was a federal attorney. The same benefits the post office workers get. And since when am I not a real American? I work for a living, well, at least most of the time.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
A Norwegian's worst nightmare is waking up in the morning and finding out all they have for health coverage is Blue Cross Blue Shield.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
"My private benefits for life are because my wife was a federal attorney "

That's wonderful. But most Americans including me don't receive benefits for life.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
A Norwegian's worst nightmare is waking up in the morning and finding out all they have for health coverage is Blue Cross Blue Shield.
No, a Norwegian's worst nightmare is waking up and finding that their country's $1T++ sovereign wealth fund is gone, funded by evil oil, and he and his 5.3 million other citizens have to re-enter the real world of countries that aren't so rich by natural resources.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
"My private benefits for life are because my wife was a federal attorney "

That's wonderful. But most Americans including me don't receive benefits for life.
And I'm not against fixing healthcare costs and coverage. I'm against stupidity.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
No, a Norwegian's worst nightmare is waking up and finding that their country's $1T++ sovereign wealth fund is gone, funded by evil oil, and he and his 5.3 million other citizens have to re-enter the real world of countries that aren't so rich by natural resources.
Stop twisting this. This thread is about affordable health care. A Norwegian's worst nightmare is waking up in the morning and finding out they have huge medical co-pays, large deductibles and denial of coverage.
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
"And I'm not against fixing healthcare costs and coverage."

So what would you do about that?
 

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