McIntosh's Most Powerful 2CH Amp Ever Unveiled!

davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
Probably be a great amp to run 2 pair of large Magnepans. :)
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you use output transformers its a moot point since you can match the impedance of the speaker
Only if that speaker has a ruler flat load. This can be achieved by careful design choice, zobels, etc. Such speakers are designed for use with amps with higher output impedances, like tube amps or this Mac this old thread concerns.

But that ignores the prevailing convention that describes 99.99% of what's out there. With amps, the prevailing convention is to design for very low output impedance/high damping factor. It's been this way for fifty years or longer. Correspondingly, 99.99% of speakers are designed assuming they'll be powered by amplification with low output impedance. The impedance of most speakers is a veritable rollercoaster. If you hook such a speaker to an amp with high output impedance, the response will not be linear.
 
E

Edgar Betancourt

Junior Audioholic
Only if that speaker has a ruler flat load. This can be achieved by careful design choice, zobels, etc. Such speakers are designed for use with amps with higher output impedances, like tube amps or this Mac this old thread concerns.

But that ignores the prevailing convention that describes 99.99% of what's out there. With amps, the prevailing convention is to design for very low output impedance/high damping factor. It's been this way for fifty years or longer. Correspondingly, 99.99% of speakers are designed assuming they'll be powered by amplification with low output impedance. The impedance of most speakers is a veritable rollercoaster. If you hook such a speaker to an amp with high output impedance, the response will not be linear.
Mmmm you continue to make the point for autoformers while dismissing them. Yep they are only necessary for a few situations, but isn't that the whole point? What dictates a premium in price is those little things that you can do that no one else can. Thats why you pay that basketball player 10 million bucks more than the other guy in the bench next to you, because he can make the crical basket no one else can.
BTW, filter capacity is enormously crucial to fidelity at high levels. As your are aware sound is a logarithmic business thus musical peaks can easily triple instantaneous power requirements. On a run of the mill amp it simply clips or cuts power thus muddled sound. An amp with enough filtering capacity, for example the MC 3db will reproduce the peak in all its glory. In a nonautformer amp like Krell that additional current is used to "cover" speaker lower speaker impedance (a good use for it) but here we go again) autoformers don't have to ( again since they all ready match the load!) and that additional current can all be provided for additional watts aka volume! The 462 can provide instantaneous peaks of 1800W without distortion! Given the nebulous specs cheap manufacturers use (peak instead of RMS 20-20k) they would rate this amp at 1800 watts per channelo_O
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Mmmm you continue to make the point for autoformers while dismissing them. Yep they are only necessary for a few situations, but isn't that the whole point? What dictates a premium in price is those little things that you can do that no one else can. Thats why you pay that basketball player 10 million bucks more than the other guy in the bench next to you, because he can make the crical basket no one else can.
BTW, filter capacity is enormously crucial to fidelity at high levels. As your are aware sound is a logarithmic business thus musical peaks can easily triple instantaneous power requirements. On a run of the mill amp it simply clips or cuts power thus muddled sound. An amp with enough filtering capacity, for example the MC 3db will reproduce the peak in all its glory. In a nonautformer amp like Krell that additional current is used to "cover" speaker lower speaker impedance (a good use for it) but here we go again) autoformers don't have to ( again since they all ready match the load!) and that additional current can all be provided for additional watts aka volume! The 462 can provide instantaneous peaks of 1800W without distortion! Given the nebulous specs cheap manufacturers use (peak instead of RMS 20-20k) they would rate this amp at 1800 watts per channelo_O
Edgar, you are spreading around audiophile mythology. You persist in the filter capacity myth, demonstrating a lack of knowledge about how linear AC-DC power supplies work. They don’t act like as a power reserve. Output transformers are indeed useless on solid state output stages with low output impedance. Output transformers were intended for tube output stages, which have a high output impedance, and would have limited output into low impedance speakers. When I read your posts I feel like I’m reading the sermon from an evangelical preacher for some obscure religion.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Mmmm you continue to make the point for autoformers while dismissing them
It has nothing to do with me. The market decided all that before I was born. Seems that divorcing amplification from speakers allowed them to sell three times as much kit, and for that to work the industry adopted the voltage source, low source impedance paradigm with amplification. McIntosh's use of autoformers is the exception, not the rule, and not based on technical merit in the modern hifi realm. Just trying to explain to you why your devotion to anachronistic tech is misplaced.

The whole point of manipulating the load using passive network components (for crossovers, notch filters, bsc compensation, zobels) is to manipulate the power going to the drivers to optimize the acoustic response, and done assuming low source impedance. When that high output impedance McIntosh is thrown into the mix, it will try to deliver the same power regardless of the load. That means the freq around crossovers are not attenuated, and that notch filter now results in a peak instead of a cut. And linearity goes out the window.
 
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Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Mmmm you continue to make the point for autoformers while dismissing them. Yep they are only necessary for a few situations, but isn't that the whole point? What dictates a premium in price is those little things that you can do that no one else can. Thats why you pay that basketball player 10 million bucks more than the other guy in the bench next to you, because he can make the crical basket no one else can.
BTW, filter capacity is enormously crucial to fidelity at high levels. As your are aware sound is a logarithmic business thus musical peaks can easily triple instantaneous power requirements. On a run of the mill amp it simply clips or cuts power thus muddled sound. An amp with enough filtering capacity, for example the MC 3db will reproduce the peak in all its glory. In a nonautformer amp like Krell that additional current is used to "cover" speaker lower speaker impedance (a good use for it) but here we go again) autoformers don't have to ( again since they all ready match the load!) and that additional current can all be provided for additional watts aka volume! The 462 can provide instantaneous peaks of 1800W without distortion! Given the nebulous specs cheap manufacturers use (peak instead of RMS 20-20k) they would rate this amp at 1800 watts per channelo_O
Which McIntosh dealer do you work at?
 
E

Edgar Betancourt

Junior Audioholic
It has nothing to do with me. The market decided all that before I was born. Seems that divorcing amplification from speakers allowed them to sell three times as much kit, and for that to work the industry adopted the voltage source, low source impedance paradigm with amplification. McIntosh's use of autoformers is the exception, not the rule, and not based on technical merit in the modern hifi realm. Just trying to explain to you why your devotion to anachronistic tech is misplaced.

The whole point of manipulating the load using passive network components (for crossovers, notch filters, bsc compensation, zobels) is to manipulate the power going to the drivers to optimize the acoustic response, and done assuming low source impedance. When that high output impedance McIntosh is thrown into the mix, it will try to deliver the same power regardless of the load. That means the freq around crossovers are not attenuated, and that notch filter now results in a peak instead of a cut. And linearity goes out the window.
You are absolutely right, but the point still stands, autoformers was and still is the reason MC's kick butt!
 

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