MartinLogan Motion 35XTi Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Rick330]

And if you do hear a pair, don't be surprised if the tell-tale sign of that upper midrange, lower treble bump isn't a kind of murky sound that obscures detail, rather than a steely edge to strings. I've modded many speakers to get rid of a hump in that range (including an Emotiva B1), and if anything you have to be careful that you don't end up with too much bite if the modded Xover gives too much prominence to the upper harmonics now that the midrange bump is out of the way.

Ok let's hear it... So this speaker is being ripped on here. If you only had to shop at best buy are there any speakers that would do better? Yeah I know there are all these other choices people prefer.

 

[everettT]

Yeah I just meant are the demand d11's as bad as these also? I just thought for the price the detail in the treble was the best with these. I'm a big gamer I like hearing every light detail.

From $899 to $1399 you have some very revealing speakers from Salk Sound.
Example

Salk Sound

www.salksound.com

But this conversation is probably for another thread..

 

[Rick330]

From $899 to $1399 you have some very revealing speakers from Salk Sound.
Example

Salk Sound

www.salksound.com

But this conversation is probably for another thread..

Yeah. I have to stick with these two manufacturers. I figured someone would point out other brand. They always do when someone asks to compare two brands lol.

 

[ExoPolitics]

The 35XTi has more presence in the midrange than a flat response, but given the context of the rest of the response, it didn't really stand out to me too much. I actually ended up using these as my desktop speakers for sometime after the review was finished. They didn't bother me at all, and I thought they sounded fine. It could be that they could sound harsh in a recording with a lot of energy in that range.

WHat amp did you use on a desk? I’m using them mostly nearfield with a Yamaha wxa-50 right now but need to move it back to the tv. I’m all over the place with smaller amps, NAD M10 and D3045, Peachtree Nova 150 or maybe a powernode 2i.

 

[shadyJ]

WHat amp did you use on a desk? I’m using them mostly nearfield with a Yamaha wxa-50 right now but need to move it back to the tv. I’m all over the place with smaller amps, NAD M10 and D3045, Peachtree Nova 150 or maybe a powernode 2i.

Any of those amps should suffice. The 35XTi speakers are not hard to drive, so they aren't partial to a particular amplifier type.

 

[ExoPolitics]

Any of those amps should suffice. The 35XTi speakers are not hard to drive, so they aren't partial to a particular amplifier type.

Yeah I have had a couple places tell me I should be getting something with 200-300W to match the speakers with headroom but it feels crazy. The Yamaha doesn't really fill the full living space downstairs the few times I really want it too, but it seems good nearfield.

 

[Schmenge]

Since 2019 have owned KEF LS50's, Martin Logan 35 XTi's and now Goldenear BRX's. The BRX's sound more like music than the others and are a breath of fresh air.. Larson's midrange harshness critique of the ML's was understated. GE's are non-fatiguing and recreate accurate musical timbres.

 

[tonyE]

How do these speakers sound at "low levels"?

As the late HP over at TAS used to write... devices with low static resistance can get up and move and stop without having to stop.... it's related to static friction, which is much lower than dynamic friction.

Lately I've been playing with very low power amplifiers with very little distortion, low power (under 20wpc) and an extremely low noise floor. The end result is that you can hear the music and the soundstage at much lower levels than we're used to. This is a hard thing to do, but if you think about it, if you lower the noise floor by 20 db, then you don't need to crank it to 110db, because 90 db is all you will need. And, yes, you will have bass at 90db as well, without need of a subwoofer.

So, how do these speakers sound at 90 db with an amp that has a very low noise floor? I have noticed the 93 db efficiency, so this speaker seems to be a widebander with a supertweeter.

 

[floptop]

How do these speakers sound at "low levels"?

As the late HP over at TAS used to write... devices with low static resistance can get up and move and stop without having to stop.... it's related to static friction, which is much lower than dynamic friction.

Lately I've been playing with very low power amplifiers with very little distortion, low power (under 20wpc) and an extremely low noise floor. The end result is that you can hear the music and the soundstage at much lower levels than we're used to. This is a hard thing to do, but if you think about it, if you lower the noise floor by 20 db, then you don't need to crank it to 110db, because 90 db is all you will need. And, yes, you will have bass at 90db as well, without need of a subwoofer.

So, how do these speakers sound at 90 db with an amp that has a very low noise floor? I have noticed the 93 db efficiency, so this speaker seems to be a widebander with a supertweeter.

Personally I think they need a subwoofer and I'm not as impressed when listening at low levels as they sound a little thin. I think with a subwoofer they sound great. I like the detail out of the tweeter as it is accurate but not harsh.

These will do best in a room/space where you can position yourself in between the speakers. You have limited dispersion with these models so they don't sound best if you are off-axis.

I have a pair of the 35s about 6' from me right now and I just swapped them for my Focal 806s bookshelves.

 

[tonyE]

Personally I think they need a subwoofer and I'm not as impressed when listening at low levels as they sound a little thin. I think with a subwoofer they sound great. I like the detail out of the tweeter as it is accurate but not harsh.
...

I have a pair of the 35s about 6' from me right now and I just swapped them for my Focal 806s bookshelves.

Thanks.... I've ended up buying a pair of used Audio Note AN-K/LX speakers.... hopefully I'll have them here next week.

When I listen at low levels, I don't look for bass that will punch me on the chest, but for the attack and decay of the bass notes. IMHO, your brain then fills the rest.

My secondary speakers (these ones) are about 10 feet away from each other and 11 feet from my head on the couch. I have primary speakers inside of them as well ( my main two channel setup uses two pairs of speakers/amps driven by the same preamp ).

BTW- I read the review... IMHO, ML is pushing the woofer to have both too much excursion (dynamic range) and bandwidth.... and this is likely causing the elevation between 800 and 2000 Hz ( at which point we are pushing past midrange...) and beaming. Perhaps, if they want to keep the dynamic range and efficiency, they ought to use a larger AMT driver that can drive lower and then cross the woofer at a lower frequency.

 

[Ian Knight]

View attachment 31730​

Although MartinLogan is best known for their curved electrostatic panel speakers, one of their best-selling speaker lines is the ‘Motion’ series that uses more conventional loudspeaker cabinets. However, in keeping with their preference for flat-panel transducers, MartinLogan did opt to use AMT tweeters in the Motion series. While AMT tweeters have become more common in recent years, the Motion series had been using them as a design distinction for some years now, and MartinLogan was the first major speaker manufacturer to put AMTs in affordable speakers. MartinLogan very recently redesigned their Motion line, and in for review today we have the Motion 35XTi, which is the larger bookshelf speaker in this product line. This beefy bookshelf speaker is the successor to the Motion 35XT and is MartinLogan’s largest and highest-performing bookshelf speaker. And so, with a pair of Motion 35XTi speakers fresh in hand, let’s see what MartinLogan can do in a bookshelf speaker format for $1.3k/pair….

READ: MartinLogan Motion 35XTi Bookshelf Speaker Review

I own this speaker. I run it off of a NAD C368 amplifier. I don't find that it likes being driven when playing large orchestral works. The massed 1st violins sound shrill and gritty accompanied by a secondary paper over comb type of distortion. This would be at around 85db-90db at my listening position which is 2 MTRS from the speakers. I never heard this when I listened to them being ran off of a Hifi Rose 200watt amplifier in the shop when I bought them. Perhaps I need a more powerful amp....or this is the elevated midrange that James highlighted. Jess Norman on Strauss's 4 last songs sounds pretty bad at the same levels. any thoughts on this?. They can sound great on solo piano and jazz or modern music...I struggle with Orchestral.

 

[TLS Guy]

I own this speaker. I run it off of a NAD C368 amplifier. I don't find that it likes being driven when playing large orchestral works. The massed 1st violins sound shrill and gritty accompanied by a secondary paper over comb type of distortion. This would be at around 85db-90db at my listening position which is 2 MTRS from the speakers. I never heard this when I listened to them being ran off of a Hifi Rose 200watt amplifier in the shop when I bought them. Perhaps I need a more powerful amp....or this is the elevated midrange that James highlighted. Jess Norman on Strauss's 4 last songs sounds pretty bad at the same levels. any thoughts on this?. They can sound great on solo piano and jazz or modern music...I struggle with Orchestral.

I think you have just got more critical.

Those speakers have a very nasty response and would be very tiring to listen to.
The FR is particularly bad for classical music.

I have that Jesse Norman disc and it is high up my list of favorites. The recording is excellent.

When you do go shopping I would consider migrating to something larger than bookshelf speakers.

Classical music is by far the most demanding of speakers and very intolerant of FR errors. The dynamic range is huge, so the speakers need to have really good power handling capacity.

So, the usual rule applies, if you don't like the sound change your speakers and leave you amp alone.

 

[Ian Knight]

I think you have just got more critical.

Those speakers have a very nasty response and would be very tiring to listen to.
The FR is particularly bad for classical music.

I have that Jesse Norman disc and it is high up my list of favorites. The recording is excellent.

When you do go shopping I would consider migrating to something larger than bookshelf speakers.

Classical music is by far the most demanding of speakers and very intolerant of FR errors. The dynamic range is huge, so the speakers need to have really good power handling capacity.

So, the usual rule applies, if you don't like the sound change your speakers and leave you amp alone.

Thanks for your input....Yes, I agree the Jesse Norman cd is excellent quality recording.
I think that I was referring to James Larsen's review when he said that the speakers could play loud on orchestral music with scale etc ( not a direct quote ) The Martin Logan's fall apart on large dynamic range orchestral recordings despite the claim that the tweeter has less distortion than dome tweeters. There is some very obvious midrange colouration that I would attribute to the bass driver that sounds somewhat flat and dull, almost like comb filtering / cancellation or just plain old driver breakup that sounds worse at higher levels.
Luckily I have a few speakers of my own design that meet the demands of the music I play. I purchased this speaker just to see if it lived up to its claims..... Obviously I don't think it does.
Thanks for your input, I tend to agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
Cheers Ian.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for your input....Yes, I agree the Jesse Norman cd is excellent quality recording.
I think that I was referring to James Larsen's review when he said that the speakers could play loud on orchestral music with scale etc ( not a direct quote ) The Martin Logan's fall apart on large dynamic range orchestral recordings despite the claim that the tweeter has less distortion than dome tweeters. There is some very obvious midrange colouration that I would attribute to the bass driver that sounds somewhat flat and dull, almost like comb filtering / cancellation or just plain old driver breakup that sounds worse at higher levels.
Luckily I have a few speakers of my own design that meet the demands of the music I play. I purchased this speaker just to see if it lived up to its claims..... Obviously I don't think it does.
Thanks for your input, I tend to agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
Cheers Ian.

The problem is a response like that would sound loud, even is it wasn't. That speakers response, is pretty much guaranteed to bore a hole in your head reproducing a potent Mezzo like Jesse Norman.

I hope you stay around here. I don't buy speakers, I design and build my own. I have done that since I was seven, so I can now claim 70 years of experience.

If a speaker measures badly it will sound bad, but the obverse is not necessarily true. It all come down to the power bands of the music to be reproduced.

The power bands of classical music and especially opera are very different from the music in the pop/folk domain.

I would love to see pictures of your designs and I will share mine with you.

 

[Ian Knight]

The problem is a response like that would sound loud, even is it wasn't. That speakers response, is pretty much guaranteed to bore a hole in your head reproducing a potent Mezzo like Jesse Norman.

I hope you stay around here. I don't buy speakers, I design and build my own. I have done that since I was seven, so I can now claim 70 years of experience.

If a speaker measures badly it will sound bad, but the obverse is not necessarily true. It all come down to the power bands of the music to be reproduced.

The power bands of classical music and especially opera are very different from the music in the pop/folk domain.

I would love to see pictures of your designs and I will share mine with you.

Hi,
I love your collection of classic gear, most of it very familiar to me. There is always some Quad there somewhere !.
Thanks for sharing, it was most interesting. Are they the SEAS Excel drivers that you use ?. I have used quite a few of those over the past 20 years or so. I have been designing speakers since I was 10 ( I am 63 ) I play the piano from the age of 5 and could never understand why pianos never sounded right when I heard them on speakers. My quest began !!.
I have been a working freelance professional loudspeaker design engineer and consultant for the past 25 years.
I am based in Leicester in the UK. The past 10 years I have been designing all the speakers for https://www.tpi.co.uk/ here in the UK. If you take a look on the website ( I find it hard to navigate but there is a lot of info on there ) you will find quite a diverse range of loudspeaker designs.... professional recording studio monitors, high output designs and domestic high end hifi speakers . We branched out into Dolby Atmos Professional Cinema systems about 5 years ago and have designed and installed them in some prestigious settings for some very well known customers. In the USA I have worked closely with https://paradisetheater.tv/ among others who install TPI Cinema systems. On the professional side I am bound by NDA's so am limtied what I can post in the public domain.
Here is an article design that I did recently https://www.cineluxe.com/great-video-wall-sound-is-here/

Another one I did in 2016 : https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/warner-music-wants-tell-story-not-sell-story-firepit/1397239

Because here in the UK we don't usually have large rooms or space for large speaker systems I also do bespoke designs and also a few small bookshelf / stand mount designs that can be found here on my website. https://www.leicesterhifi.com/ I have a smallish room at home so usually go for designs that don't swamp the room with bass. This means that a lot of my own personal designs are acoustic suspension designs that with F3 of around 40hz target.
There is a bit more information about me here https://www.leicesterhifi.com/about

Thanks for sharing your system images, they were really interesting to me.
I think you must be a fellow music lover just like myself.
Cheers Ian.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,
I love your collection of classic gear, most of it very familiar to me. There is always some Quad there somewhere !.
Thanks for sharing, it was most interesting. Are they the SEAS Excel drivers that you use ?. I have used quite a few of those over the past 20 years or so. I have been designing speakers since I was 10 ( I am 63 ) I play the piano from the age of 5 and could never understand why pianos never sounded right when I heard them on speakers. My quest began !!.
I have been a working freelance professional loudspeaker design engineer and consultant for the past 25 years.
I am based in Leicester in the UK. The past 10 years I have been designing all the speakers for https://www.tpi.co.uk/ here in the UK. If you take a look on the website ( I find it hard to navigate but there is a lot of info on there ) you will find quite a diverse range of loudspeaker designs.... professional recording studio monitors, high output designs and domestic high end hifi speakers . We branched out into Dolby Atmos Professional Cinema systems about 5 years ago and have designed and installed them in some prestigious settings for some very well known customers. In the USA I have worked closely with https://paradisetheater.tv/ among others who install TPI Cinema systems. On the professional side I am bound by NDA's so am limtied what I can post in the public domain.
Here is an article design that I did recently https://www.cineluxe.com/great-video-wall-sound-is-here/

Another one I did in 2016 : https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/warner-music-wants-tell-story-not-sell-story-firepit/1397239

Because here in the UK we don't usually have large rooms or space for large speaker systems I also do bespoke designs and also a few small bookshelf / stand mount designs that can be found here on my website. https://www.leicesterhifi.com/ I have a smallish room at home so usually go for designs that don't swamp the room with bass. This means that a lot of my own personal designs are acoustic suspension designs that with F3 of around 40hz target.
There is a bit more information about me here https://www.leicesterhifi.com/about

Thanks for sharing your system images, they were really interesting to me.
I think you must be a fellow music lover just like myself.
Cheers Ian.

Yes, I do use some SEAS Excel drivers.

If you have designed that many speakers, then I find it hard to understand why you have those miserable ML speakers.

My particular interest is in transmission line speakers. I find they have the best and most natural bass of any other alignments.

UK rooms are much smaller than here in the US. Most UK homes are not suitable for multichannel audio.

I just got back from a three week visit to the UK two weeks ago.

I had one of my sons, his wife and three of our grandchildren along.

So I had to borrow one of my brother's vehicles. It was thisSUV he uses for hauling his racing cars around.

That was quite a trick managing that on UK roads. The Internet maps were prone to send you down roads the vehicle could not get down.

I git sent into a chicayne in Sittingbourne on my way to see friends at Conyer Wharf.

Apple maps get wanting me to go back to it.

I had to ask a lorry driver how to get out of trouble. He new the problem after a got a couple of words out and said that happened all the time. Anyhow he gave good directions to get us out of trouble.

 

[Ian Knight]

Yes, I do use some SEAS Excel drivers.

If you have designed that many speakers, then I find it hard to understand why you have those miserable ML speakers.

My particular interest is in transmission line speakers. I find they have the best and most natural bass of any other alignments.

UK rooms are much smaller than here in the US. Most UK homes are not suitable for multichannel audio.

I just got back from a three week visit to the UK two weeks ago.

I had one of my sons, his wife and three of our grandchildren along.

So I had to borrow one of my brother's vehicles. It was thisSUV he uses for hauling his racing cars around.

That was quite a trick managing that on UK roads. The Internet maps were prone to send you down roads the vehicle could not get down.

I git sent into a chicayne in Sittingbourne on my way to see friends at Conyer Wharf.

Apple maps get wanting me to go back to it.

I had to ask a lorry driver how to get out of trouble. He new the problem after a got a couple of words out and said that happened all the time. Anyhow he gave good directions to get us out of trouble.

I purchased the ML speakers just to see if commercial domestic speakers have improved ...obviously they haven't. I will sell them on . I put the post on here really as a hifi punter asking a dumb question about changing the amplifier just to see what and who would comment. I am a big advocate of "the loudspeaker voices the system" so I know that what I was hearing was poor crossover design and also complete BS about the lauded AMT unit ML use. ....... It was just an exercise really. I have never found an amplifier that can correct a poor sounding speaker !.

I think our SATNAV technology is well behind yours ....you experienced that first hand.
I have worked in Florida quite a few years ago and was amazed how backward we are in so many respects.

It's been good to meet you on here.

Cheers Ian.

 

[Swerd]

I put the post on here really as a hifi punter asking a dumb question about changing the amplifier just to see what and who would comment. I am a big advocate of "the loudspeaker voices the system" so I know that what I was hearing was poor crossover design and also complete BS about the lauded AMT unit ML use. ....... It was just an exercise really. I have never found an amplifier that can correct a poor sounding speaker!

I just reread your earlier post. Nothing in it would lead most of our readers here mistake you for a "hifi punter".

If anything, we sometimes harshly jump all over new queries about which amp will improve the poor sound quality of their speakers. It almost always is caused by poor speaker design, especially poor crossover design. You already know that, all too well.

You are quite welcome around here.

 

[Swerd]

So I had to borrow one of my brother's vehicles. It was this SUV he uses for hauling his racing cars around.

That was quite a trick managing that on UK roads. The Internet maps were prone to send you down roads the vehicle could not get down.

That SUV is quite a 'hoss'. I'm not surprised at your experience driving it in the UK.

Some 5 years ago I spent ~2 weeks driving around England. As an American, the wide variety and quality of UK roads was an eye opener. The motorways and most of the A lettered, even the B roads, were good enough for driving. But the small narrow country lanes – with no letter or number & without shoulders – could be terrifying. These roads were never straight & were usually surrounded by high hedges or stone walls, making it impossible to see oncoming cars or trucks. Yes, large trucks! These roads were so narrow that there was barely enough room for you & any oncoming traffic. After 10 or 20 miles of stressful driving on these roads, I was exhausted. To keep driving distances as short as possible, the SatNav/GPS apps directed us away from roads with wider pavement & painted lane lines, & instead guided us onto those small narrow country lanes – without shoulders.

Blindly following the SatNav/GPS guidance led me into so many white knuckle moments that I was exhausted. I eventually learned to buy a small map that showed the M, A, or B roads. They may have been less direct, but were far easier to drive.

 

[TLS Guy]

I purchased the ML speakers just to see if commercial domestic speakers have improved ...obviously they haven't. I will sell them on . I put the post on here really as a hifi punter asking a dumb question about changing the amplifier just to see what and who would comment. I am a big advocate of "the loudspeaker voices the system" so I know that what I was hearing was poor crossover design and also complete BS about the lauded AMT unit ML use. ....... It was just an exercise really. I have never found an amplifier that can correct a poor sounding speaker !.

I think our SATNAV technology is well behind yours ....you experienced that first hand.
I have worked in Florida quite a few years ago and was amazed how backward we are in so many respects.

It's been good to meet you on here.

Cheers Ian.

Yes, it is good to be back in the US. You would not expect an amp to correct speaker ills, that would be illogical.

I do think though that classical music does require good neutral speakers. For one thing you have no idea what the music of the highly processes pop culture is supposed to sound like. So that gives speaker designers a get out of jail card for a start.

I don't know if you have done any serious recording or editing. However when I switched from analog to digital recording, and I was an early adopter, the information given by pro recording software was a revelation. It really demonstrated where the power bands were. In addition it revealed information about spread and ambience. For me this was a watershed moment and changed my outlook and approach in significant ways. The major difference was considering and designing for what I call the power band responses. This is especially true in the mid bands, where the vast majority of speakers fall seriously short.
The deep bass is not a major power band area for a start. The huge modern mistake is to spend on mammoth subs and neglect the major power in the midrange.

That is a major reason why visitors here find that large forces are so realistically reproduced.