Mark Seaton 2x Submersive HP vs 1x Terraform XL

[Warpdrv]

I'm pretty sure the SVS PC13 ultras lack of praises from the home theater magazines and websites is due to its leaving the article contributors and editors underwhelmed not its lack of a big dollar marketing department.

Hmmm pretty funny - seeing as in non-funded 3rd party outside tests that Ultra 13 had showed such amazing test results in comparison to almost every product out there... perhaps they didn't know how to setup a subwoofer properly...

Perhaps you should not listen to all the hype from over priced NAME BRAND products that dealers like to push based on their prices and looks.... I'm sure some dealer $hit all over the SVS to sell you what he wanted to sell you.

I'm not going to knock your purchase of the JL's, I owned one and they are spectacular subs, but I can promise you that the Ultra 13 I heard will shake your teeth loose when setup properly.... they are not overpriced trash - they have more output with less distortion.... JL makes awesome products but they ARE NOT the best in the world.

Ultra 13
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/8149-svs-pb13-ultra-15-hz-tune.html

vs

F113
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113.html

Perhaps before you shoot your mouth off, you'd like to take in account that many many subs have been 3rd party tested and this info has been gone over for years.

I would suggest you compare the tests between the F113 and the Ultra 13, but I doubt you could make any sense out of them

Then again, my DIY build is the best driver ever tested period, and I can confirm the lowest possible distortion test results. But there are no reviews in magazines, so it must be CR@P.... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/8154-diy-tc-sounds-lms-5400-18-sealed-100l-lt.html

Heres a ranking chart - which you are welcome to shove up your dealer @$$

 

[GranteedEV]

Damn, the JL THD chart is not pretty next to the SVS. No wonder he prefers the JL though. People prefer the sound of 2nd order harmonic bass distortion, because they can hear it, unlike true reproduction which by the fletcher munson curves is difficult for us to hear. Truly goes to show that subjective opinion and genuine fidelity just don't mesh.

 

[Warpdrv]

Looking at the max output of the F113 shows some serious compression on the drivers abilities when pushed hard...
Compression is coming from the small box, and the driver struggling against it...

And the resulting distortion that is accompanied with said performance in such a small box limited the drivers linearity.

Compared to the much cleaner and higher outputting SVS in a similar scenario 20 hz tune

And the far better looking distortion response from a driver that is not inhibited by a small box.

Even the Ultra13 in sealed mode shows extremely nice performance.... although a touch more distortion and a bit of compression....

I'm still wanting to see what the MAX output and THD of the Submersive looks like, I still have mine and am possibly looking to get it to Ricci for testing maybe in the months to come.....
http://www.data-bass.com/data?category=systems&type=0

 

[its phillip]

That would be awesome if you could get it to Ricci for testing. Is it a standard submersive or is it the submersive HP?

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I stand corrected.

 

[Warpdrv]

That would be awesome if you could get it to Ricci for testing. Is it a standard submersive or is it the submersive HP?

HP....

A few of us guys are going to be heading down that way, and there are a couple of products that might make that testing time frame - Ricci was at my house for a sub gtg a long ways back and I wish we had more time but I got the chance to hear the LMS & XXX 18 for the first time - which ultimately took me down the path of insanity with my builds...

 

[Warpdrv]

Damn, the JL THD chart is not pretty next to the SVS. No wonder he prefers the JL though. People prefer the sound of 2nd order harmonic bass distortion, because they can hear it, unlike true reproduction which by the fletcher munson curves is difficult for us to hear. Truly goes to show that subjective opinion and genuine fidelity just don't mesh.

Yes - I will say that generally as a whole --- many people prefer subs that have higher 2nd order THD and therefore those types of subs don't have to be played nearly as loud to achieve the output of cleaner less THD subs... Subjective

My LMS's are so clean that I generally will have them playing at almost 15db higher then a sub or subs I had with much higher 2nd order THD.... One just ends up wanting more - they are so incredibly clean in their abilities

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Warp, do you like them for music?

 

[Warpdrv]

Warp, do you like them for music?

Do I like which for music...?

JL, SVS, Submersive, or my LMS's.... ?

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Your DIY LMS-5400 build.

 

[Warpdrv]

Ive owned a lot of subs - and nothing IMO is as accurate nor as powerful offering the output and low distortion as the LMS drivers.... The absolute best I have ever heard for both music and movies - PERIOD. The JL F112 was not far behind in terms of SQ but didn't have the output down low I was looking for....

Here is the place I got the external box from - I had Funky Waves build it for me - I already had the driver, which you can get from Parts Express

Funky Waves can and will build you anything you could possibly want... I highly recommend their services, products and know how....

 

[cantonguy]

Really really really wish I had the money to buy a few FW 18.3's. That guy is an amazing craftsman. I use to think Seaton had the best finishes, but Funky Waves takes the cake now in my opinion. Speaking on appearance alone as I have not heard either.

As far as fan boy goes butcher.... I own none of the subs I would have bought over your F113. I'm sure they are great subs. BUT, from everything I have read they just don't stack up to what you could have got for less money. Sorry, I'll regurgitate numbers based on fact all day long. There is a reason people say sub x is better than sub y on a regular basis...because it is. Sure...there are your fan boys out there, but you can read between the lines pretty easily. I have a Rythmik F15. I love it. But, I won't pretend that a submersive, FW, SVS Ultra, wouldn't blow the doors off it in output. Fact are facts man. You bought 2 great subs...just wouldn't have been a lot of other peoples choice who are on here a lot for $5000. Enjoy them, I'm sure they'll do you proud.

 

[Warpdrv]

I agree 100%, those JL's drivers are no slouches and truly offer some of the best build quality & SQ, I have no doubts they will be amazing performers for years and years to come.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I've got my F113's running about 5dB hot compared to the rest of my synchrony 1 5.1 speaker system... they are only at about 30% on the level output dial to achieve this. They are more sub than I'll ever use, lol. If I'm missing as far as clarity distortion and output I'm too naive to know what it is. They sound absolutely amazing until the pair of F113's and my Parasound newclassic 5250 V.2 Trip my 15A breaker. lol. If I'm missing something I don't mind missing whatever that may be.

Is weird that it never tripped the first few movies I watched but it seems as if it's gotten more sensitive. Now it trips a couple scenes into a low frequency heavy blu-ray. The other possibility is I already have to listen to it louder than I did when I started to reach the same perceived loudness because of hearing damage?

Next weekend's project is to run over a pair of dedicated 20 amp circuits to serve one subwoofer and the amplifier. I think the 15A circuit will hang in there on one of the subs.

Overall, absolutely thrilled with all of my purchases.

 

[GranteedEV]

Tripping a breaker probably means you're leaving the subs and amp on idle... Turn them off when not in use and you should be fine.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Hmm, but they are in-use when they trip the breaker. I'm going to swap the arc-fault out for non-arc fault to see if that helps until I can run some additional circuits.

 

[Warpdrv]

A pair of those amps, plus the other gear you have on there is too much for a single 15a circuit... You won't need dual 20 amp circuits, but your doing the right thing by installing them... no harm in overkill... try to make sure the electrician puts them on the same leg of the breaker box to avoid them being out of phase from an electrical standpoint (he will know what that means) which will possibly eliminate any ground loop hums...

Good man - upgrade whats important.

Congrats on some amazing subs - they are expensive and if you can swing them $$ wise - you won't be disappointed with their performance.... I truly loved the sound and performance of my F112.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Much to my surprise, I haven't had a single breaker trip since just swapping it out with another 15A, non arc-fault variety.

The capcitors in my gear must really work some miracles as far as actual amp draw is concerned. I wouldn't think there would be anyway for it to hold as well as it does.