Mark Seaton 2x Submersive HP vs 1x Terraform XL

[Rythmik]

GranteedEV,

Let me rephrase and see if we have a more common understanding. An improper phase integration can lead to the sub volume level set unreasonably high and lead to the triggering of limiter more often than not. Then Paul began to fault the volume dial. Come on, our volume dial is like 15 degrees for 1db. Paul has such a big hand that he cannot finely control the volume knob for 15degrees at a time for 30 degrees at a time? Another data point, we have used the same volume control for 6 years and I have not heard anyone complaining about the volume control. What is more, I have not had a single customer returning our product because the volume control is lousy. So what he did was he had to adjust a large angle to make a difference and yet it still does not sound right with a different material.

Second, the limiter is to compress the output. Why would Paul notice a volume suddenly jumped? That is the opposite of compression, isn't it? Has he noticed the sound level being compressed before he observed the sound level jumped. Has he set the volume so high that he essentially keep the limiter triggering over and over again? If I want to describe a limiter effect, I would have described it as the volume seemed to sound like compressed and then expanded. He missed the first crucial clue of limiter in action. It is like hearing a sequence of A->B->C. A is normal, and B is compressed and C is recovery. Note the at C will never sound louder than A. That is the key.

This is like CSI. We are trying to figure out what he really has heard. Was he still in the loop of poor integration and observed the sound as weak at certain frequencies and overpowering at others. Was the jump in volume due to signal shifting in frequency, moving from null point to peak point?

My main point was there were contradiction or comments not making sense. When that happens, say in a legal trial, the whole argument will be thrown out, period because we cannot tell which is right or wrong. If that is true, what Paul had said should be not brought up over and over again.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

/sigh, back to the matter at hand please. Does anyone who has experience with a few other comparable subs have experience with the Mark Seaton Submersive HP or the Terraform XL?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

/sigh, back to the matter at hand please. Does anyone who has experience with a few other comparable subs have experience with the Mark Seaton Submersive HP or the Terraform XL?

Talk to Warp

 

[Warpdrv]

Heck - talk to Mark Seaton....

He's the one who builds them.... AFAIK the Terraform is not yet released, so he is the only one who has the experience with both.... I did see the big boy when I picked up my Submersive, but never heard it, it was sitting in his warehouse....

Have you been on the Seaton forum...?

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/?forum=86963

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I have. Everyone there seems to love them. I have talked with Mark too. Great guy. You are a DIY owner as well? How do you compare your DIY to the submersive? Be willing to describe what you like about one over the other? Are the seaton's more "musical"? How does the sonic energy output of your DIY compare to the Seaton? Do you think someone new to hometheater, would think anything would be lacking by going with (2) Submersive HP's vs a couple DIY's like yours? Do they excell at different things? Does the DIY better serve movies than music?

I love the cherry finish of the seatons. Its about the only option I have that I can purchase that will match the PSB Synch 1 speakers, dark cherry finish.

 

[Warpdrv]

PM sent....

This is not a thread about my DIY products....

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Decision made after comparing other people's reviews of many many products. Will be ordering 2x Submersive HPs shortly here. I trust that I will not be dissapointed.

 

[cantonguy]

Decision made after comparing other people's reviews of many many products. Will be ordering 2x Submersive HPs shortly here. I trust that I will not be dissapointed.

Want to drive them down to South Dakota and give me a demo?

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I lied... I ended up pulling the trigger on (2) JL Audio F-113's instead.

 

[templemaners]

I lied... I ended up pulling the trigger on (2) JL Audio F-113's instead.

Why the flip-flop?

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I don't have the ability to audition any of the subs in question so I had to buy based on what other people say which really sucks. With the rest of the speakers, I could never, ever rely on someone else's ears.

Some features I did like is their room correction system, driver protection system, their appearance, how they reportedly excel at music so well, and their general "overbuiltness." I couldn't find anything bad out there about these aside from complaints about the price.

I hope they live up to their hype.

 

[GranteedEV]

wtf... for that kinda money you could have gotten a pair of LMS 5400 funkywaves subs... fathoms imo are overpriced

 

[Beatmatcher247]

I got the (2) F113's for a streetprice of less than what (2) of the Submersive's would've cost me shipped. I sure as hell would not pay sticker price on the F113's. If the price wouldn't had been as sweet as it was, I would've definately went with the Seatons. Still am awaiting my cabling so I can't comment on how they perform yet.

 

[cantonguy]

I don't have the ability to audition any of the subs in question so I had to buy based on what other people say which really sucks. With the rest of the speakers, I could never, ever rely on someone else's ears.

Some features I did like is their room correction system, driver protection system, their appearance, how they reportedly excel at music so well, and their general "overbuiltness." I couldn't find anything bad out there about these aside from complaints about the price.

I hope they live up to their hype.

LOL. Shoot yourself man, you're making a big mistake. You could get an incredible set-up for what you're spending on those JL's. Taking someones word on something that goes boom is not that big of an issue. I really think that almost all of their suggestions would have been better than the route you went. Those JL's are good subs, but you could have matched the performance for less and beat them for the same amount. It's unfortunate that someone with that amount of money to spend doesn't take sound advice from many knowledgeable people IMO.

EDIT: Just saw your above post. What did you pay for the set then?

 

[jostenmeat]

I got the (2) F113's for a streetprice of less than what (2) of the Submersive's would've cost me shipped. I sure as hell would not pay sticker price on the F113's. If the price wouldn't had been as sweet as it was, I would've definately went with the Seatons. Still am awaiting my cabling so I can't comment on how they perform yet.

Congrats on a pair of great subs. They are unmatched in performance for the cabinet size too, and their finish is remarkable. Yeah, some people don't realize that if someone doesn't save more than a grand off of msrp for these things, they must have never signed up on a forum before.

I used to have a F113, but I traded that out for a DIY that is simply huge. If this was for a living room, and I wanted dual subs, with a good budget at hand, the JLs would make my short list.

Basically, my subwoofer is 5' long and 300 lbs, but yet is only 213% larger than the Seaton Submersive HP.

OTOH, the Submersive is 314% larger than the JL F113.

edit: but then again if the OP was considering a Terraform, maybe this wasn't for the living room. If for a dedicated HT, I would also go for something else than JL, and that's what I did.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Canton, that is typical "OMGZ WTF LOL3RSK4T35 buy internet brand_01" fanboy garbage you're spewing. Half the people that push seatons and SVS probably have never heard one before. They just regurgitate what they read somewhere else. I know that these will have more sonic energy output, speed, room coverage, and accuracy than I will ever need. I like their smaller foot print, great finish, lightning-fast speed, and that they're built like a tank with mechanical over-drive protection.

I heard a highly-fanboy-revered SVS-PC13 and was very underwhelmed. I had to ask the guy trying to sell it if it was on? lol. I guess that experience alone made me really weary to buy from an internet direct company. People naturally think what they went with is "the best out there" and recommend it as such when in reality they are ignorant of what is all out there. I can say with certainty that the SVS-PC13 ultra is an overpriced piece of trash.

Paid a little less than 5k shipped. About the same difference for some seatons finished the way that I want them. The exploded-view of the F113 instilled confidence in me about its overall build quality and ability to withstand the test of time. It also touts on the box it ships in that it has been a product of the year multiple years running with several different prominent home theater magazines. I don't see that stuff stamped on the side of internet companies boxes. If they were as good as everyone claims, you'd think a few of the home theater gear review websites and magazines would have more to say about them. They virtually don't exist outside of the forum community.

 

[GranteedEV]

I heard a highly-fanboy-revered SVS-PC13 and was very underwhelmed. I had to ask the guy trying to sell it if it was on? lol. I guess that experience alone made me really weary to buy from an internet direct company.

That's a very weak basis for making a judgement. Room acoustics, setup, content, distortion, placement... these things affect perception. Then you add in the mains which handle bass from 80-250hz (which we are a lot more sensitive to) and your opinion is fundamentally flawed.

What I will say is that if you can't tell if a sub is on or not - it's a sign of a good setup. If your subs are drawing a lot of attention to them, something might not be right. Your perception of bass depends on your expectation, because an accurate system might not sound like you want it to.

It also touts on the box it ships in that it has been a product of the year multiple years running with several different prominent home theater magazines. I don't see that stuff stamped on the side of internet companies boxes. If they were as good as everyone claims, you'd think a few of the home theater gear review websites and magazines would have more to say about them. They virtually don't exist outside of the forum community.

Why would you think that? You're confusing marketing with engineering.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

We had the mains off. The only channel going was the subwoofer. It was hardly noticeable with my ears right next to the thing using LFE heavy lossless blu-ray scenes. I'm quite sure this was not a sign of a good setup.

I'm pretty sure the SVS PC13 ultras lack of praises from the home theater magazines and websites is due to its leaving the article contributors and editors underwhelmed not its lack of a big dollar marketing department.

 

[its phillip]

If magazine and webzine reviews make you feel better:
http://www.svsound.com/news-reviews.cfm

Greg here on the forums went from an F113 to a PB13U (same driver as the PC13U, just a different cabinet shape) and was very happy. User reviews I have come across indicate the box is better than the cylinder though

 

[GranteedEV]

Audioholics has also reviewed SVS

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-plus/pb12-measurements

as well as JL


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/jl-audio-fathom-f112-subwoofer-review/fathom-f112-measurements.html

We had the mains off. The only channel going was the subwoofer. It was hardly noticeable with my ears right next to the thing using LFE heavy lossless blu-ray scenes. I'm quite sure this was not a sign of a good setup.

and what scenes would these be?

I'm pretty sure the SVS PC13 ultras lack of praises from the home theater magazines and websites is due to its leaving the article contributors and editors underwhelmed not its lack of a big dollar marketing department

okay there.