Marantz SR8012 - Really disappointed with sound quality

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Highfigh, if you want to run it under your oscilloscope and do a waveform analysis, post some measurements, all good. Amazon has a 30 day return. If you don't want to test it it/try just try to find a link from someone (anyone) who has actually tried the product. Start with Amazon, 16 reviews OK:

From an actual owner:

5.0 out of 5 stars 2 Days from now, you will be mainlining the purest audiophile grade sound imaginable!
Reviewed in the United States on January 25, 2022
Verified Purchase
I did not perceive there to be any problems with the electricity in my system, I purchased the DC Blocker in the hopes of better sound. As I was plugging it in, I was having skeptical thoughts, figuring that it would likely go back.
I hit the power button on the amp and was absolutely ShOcKeD! The improvement in sound quality jumped straight out at me. It was like putting a new battery in your Accord and all of sudden you have a 700hp V-12 Ferrari! All aspects of the audio are improved. The biggest difference is in the mids. Vocals are more holographic and real. Hugh increase in separation, clarity, layering, etc. Insert the whole audiophile lexicon because you name it, it was doing it. I skimmed my way through around 500 songs and counting.

I have tested this DC Blocker with 2 different amps, one 240 volt and one running 120v and both were vastly improved (audiolab 6000a and Rotel A11 Tribute). I like both amps, but the 6000a is definitely superior in terms of straight up sound quality -mainly in bass articulation. This DC blocker will do the most good on amps. I've tried it on partnering equipment and performance seemed a bit enhanced but I don't know if I could tell in a blind A/B test. Results will be most dramatic on amps. I would guess that it will produce the best results on mid and high level equipment because crappy power is the only thing left holding them back. It's output plug is IEC (most amps use this input) so you can't use it with any old plug without an adapter. It is limited in it's output to 300 watts although the fuse is for 4 amps so it would likely handle a bit more. Powering a receiver would likely work out great as long as you don't crank it on 8 channels. This will not feed a whole 12 outlet power strip but there is an small IEC power strip available here on Amazon and you could likely power an amp, dac and a disc player at the same time.
It is a little disheartening to realize how badly our gear is being served by the terrible quality of our electrical grid. Your gear is way better than you think it is! Even if you don't think you have a problem with your power, you must try this audiolab DC Blocker. This little device was a bigger upgrade than buying new speakers and cost a pittance in audiophile terms.
To the naysayers and snake oil proclaimers, there is much to be skeptical about in audio, but I challenge you to send this little guy back.
I own two of these. Some day, one of them will go to my heirs. The other will be placed under my head and buried with me for holographic sound in the afterlife. Let's face it, hell likely has dc on the mains.
"under an oscilloscope"? I have worked with audio for more than 50 years and never heard or read anyone use that phrase. "Put it on a scope", "check it with a 'scope", "scope it", etc but never "under a scope".

Why should I waste my time and tie up my money, testing something I don't care about?

You seem to think that the grid is killing equipment all over, but it's not.

Would you be interested in opening yours and showing what's inside?
 
Last edited:
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
"under an oscilloscope"? I have worked with audio for more than 50 years and never heard or read anyone use that phrase. "Put it on a scope", "check it with a 'scope", "scope it", etc but never "under a scope".

Why should I waste my time and tie up my money, testing something I don't care about?

You seem to think that the grid is killing equipment all over, but it's not.

Would you be interested in opening yours and showing what's inside?
You are the one that brought up scopes, have fun!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I totally agree, Even amps have different sound, I would think most can tell a difference between the sound of a tube amp compared to solid state. To me early Marantz kinda had more of a tube like sound and thats what I liked with my SR7010. Unfortunately I think the difference is D&M Holdings/Philips designed the SR7010 and United Sound designed and built the SR8012 and used interchangeable parts with the Denon 6400 so its just it is what it is. They chose to save cost in manufacturing which you can't blame them for but its a mixed breed now.
The SR7010 is almost identical in circuitry design and parts used in the Denon AVR-X4300H, the main exception is, as most know, Denon's were, still are, free of the HDAMs. I have the service manuals.
 
Last edited:
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
Wow. Just wow.

If you want to refuse to deal with reality, go ahead- give diagnostics a shot, though- you might be surprised by the results.
Highfigh, if you want to discuss an area of common ground like room acoustics please stop by my thread on ceiling treatments. I have measurements of the results if you care to discuss in more detail. Thanks
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Highfigh, if you want to discuss an area of common ground like room acoustics please stop by my thread on ceiling treatments. I have measurements of the results if you care to discuss in more detail. Thanks
Thread on AH? I'll look for it. (edit- found it)

What do you do about the walls and what room dimensions do you typically work with?
 
Last edited:
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
Thread on AH? I'll look for it.

What do you do about the walls and what room dimensions do you typically work with?
Stop by and we can discuss:

 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
@PENG
Thank you for your input. This wasn't about arguing a point, rather trying to help OP understand what differences could exist between his 7010 and the 8012.
I'm hoping @Itsmerandy is patient and works through the 8012!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
@PENG
Thank you for your input. This wasn't about arguing a point, rather trying to help OP understand what differences could exist between his 7010 and the 8012.
I'm hoping @Itsmerandy is patient and works through the 8012!
I know that, but I also know it is usually pointless to tell the same to someone and expect them to be open to other possible reasons for what they perceived, as he said "..Ongoing debate.." It is ongoing because one side failed to convince the other since the beginning of time..

In this case, the difference is that the SR8012 has better parts and design and yet...:D

Edit: Gene just mentioned that "The amp section in the 8012 is better than the 7010. ", but he also mentioned: "As for sound, I suspect there are set up issues but its all speculative based on what I see here. "
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
You are not a good fit for this forum, and you are going to waste a lot of a time. This is a science/engineering based forum, that believes in objective data soundly applied.
We want to steer new members starting out in logical and sensible directions. We really don't want to have to spend time decontaminating them from your nonsense.
We periodically get subjectivists like you barging on here with this time and money wasting advice. It is not what we are about.

Please find a subjectivist forum to spout your bilge.
I'm an Electronic Engineer, but that doesn't mean I'd be putting people down and trying to push them off this site for not liking Amir's site when Amir is utterly incapable of judging a product by it audible attributes, but will pan a product based on utterly inaudible nonsense.

There's a difference between taking measurements and taking USEFUL measurements! If it's not audible, it doesn't matter.

Moreover, who are you to be telling people they're not welcome!? You don't get to speak for all of us. I'd rather see a condescending (_Y_) like yourself leave than that guy.

There's an article by Gene on here about the term Audiophile and how we should be more welcoming in general to audio fans and somehow I don't think telling them to go elsewhere while calling their opinions "nonsense" is the way.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm an Electronic Engineer, but that doesn't mean I'd be putting people down and trying to push them off this site for not liking Amir's site when Amir is utterly incapable of judging a product by it audible attributes, but will pan a product based on utterly inaudible nonsense.

There's a difference between taking measurements and taking USEFUL measurements! If it's not audible, it doesn't matter.

Moreover, who are you to be telling people they're not welcome!? You don't get to speak for all of us. I'd rather see a condescending (_Y_) like yourself leave than that guy.

There's an article by Gene on here about the term Audiophile and how we should be more welcoming in general to audio fans and somehow I don't think telling them to go elsewhere while calling their opinions "nonsense" is the way.
That bloke was a belligerent, ignorant ass. He was dominating the site with his absurd notions and wasting endless time. He was significantly downgrading the worth and credibility of this site. His unpleasant antics eventually got him the ban hammer, after an all too short temporary ban. His ban was absolutely the right decision made by the mods, and I think the owner.

The members in good standing here are not going to tolerate that level of ignorant abuse, and nor should they. I do not regret a word I said, about, and to, that individual, and I think that goes for the whole of the long term membership.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm an Electronic Engineer…There's a difference between taking measurements and taking USEFUL measurements! If it's not audible, it doesn't matter.
I am surprised an engineer would say something like that:D!
Why not? He’s just talking about audio, not bridges or buildings or rocket science. :D

It still fun to make small talk of inaudible measurements, and many of us have been talking about them from the time we started in this audio hobby. But unless these measurements (THD+N, SNR, X-Talk, Damping Factor, etc.) correlate to sound quality or product reliability, are they really “important”? :D

For fun and games and do we want to see them? Sure.

Important or necessary? Probably not.

It’s just funny seeing people making purchasing decisions based on the inaudible difference in THD+N/SINAD numbers, unless we say that these inaudible numbers are part of the “Pride of Ownership“. :D
 
Last edited:
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Highfigh, if you want to run it under your oscilloscope and do a waveform analysis, post some measurements, all good. Amazon has a 30 day return. If you don't want to test it it/try just try to find a link from someone (anyone)

Why? What does the shape of a sine wave in a power supply have to do with sound? Power cables don't carry sound other than a 60hz hum.

From an actual owner:

5.0 out of 5 stars 2 Days from now, you will be mainlining the purest audiophile grade sound imaginable!
Reviewed in the United States on January 25, 2022
Verified Purchase
I did not perceive there to be any problems with the electricity in my system, I purchased the DC Blocker in the hopes of better sound. As I was plugging it in, I was having skeptical thoughts, figuring that it would likely go back.
I hit the power button on the amp and was absolutely ShOcKeD! The improvement in sound quality jumped straight out at me. It was like putting a new battery in your Accord and all of sudden you have a 700hp V-12 Ferrari! All aspects of the audio are improved. The biggest difference is in the mids. Vocals are more holographic and real. Hugh increase in separation, clarity, layering, etc. Insert the whole audiophile lexicon because you name it, it was doing it. I skimmed my way through around 500 songs and counting.
A good example of confirmation bias that can be dispelled quickly with a bias controlled listening test.

I have tested this DC Blocker with 2 different amps, one 240 volt and one running 120v and both were vastly improved (audiolab 6000a and Rotel A11 Tribute). I like both amps, but the 6000a is definitely superior in terms of straight up sound quality -mainly in bass articulation. This DC blocker will do the most good on amps. I've tried it on partnering equipment and performance seemed a bit enhanced but I don't know if I could tell in a blind A/B test. Results will be most dramatic on amps. I would guess that it will produce the best results on mid and high level equipment because crappy power is the only thing left holding them back. It's output plug is IEC (most amps use this input) so you can't use it with any old plug without an adapter. It is limited in it's output to 300 watts although the fuse is for 4 amps so it would likely handle a bit more. Powering a receiver would likely work out great as long as you don't crank it on 8 channels. This will not feed a whole 12 outlet power strip but there is an small IEC power strip available here on Amazon and you could likely power an amp, dac and a disc player at the same time.
It is a little disheartening to realize how badly our gear is being served by the terrible quality of our electrical grid. Your gear is way better than you think it is! Even if you don't think you have a problem with your power, you must try this audiolab DC Blocker. This little device was a bigger upgrade than buying new speakers and cost a pittance in audiophile terms.
To the naysayers and snake oil proclaimers, there is much to be skeptical about in audio, but I challenge you to send this little guy back.
I own two of these. Some day, one of them will go to my heirs. The other will be placed under my head and buried with me for holographic sound in the afterlife. Let's face it, hell likely has dc on the mains.
See comment about confirmation bias posted above.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Why not? He’s just talking about audio, not bridges or buildings or rocket science. :D
I understand what you are saying but you might have missed my point about the part he said: "If it's not audible, it doesn't matter. "

While that may be true, often an engineer would/may not know whether certain specs/effects are audible or not without taking a bunch of measurements that could then be interpreted and then more even more measurements could be taken for further investigations. Most engineers (on the industrial, construction side) I know, worked with, would typically to take a lot of measurements especially troubleshooting, some turned out to be useful while others not.

The same would apply to Audio that as you said, does not affect safety, nor is considered rocket science, but again, we don't always know the audible effects on performance of certain things without first taking some measurements. Now, the story changes if one is more of a so call subjectivist who believe a lot more on ears/brains than on measurements.

Anyway, I am sort of just teasing, no debate necessary..
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
I have no problem with taking measurements. I do have a problem with meaningless measurements that do not affect the final outcome (functional/audible). I could probe the temperature of my salami sandwich before I eat it, but I doubt that measurement affects the sound of my home theater system. In other words, over-measuring and basing a recommendation on a system meant to be used for entertainment (actually seen/heard by human eyes/ears) on robotic like measurements outside the human perception capability is both a waste of time and just as absurd as believing in magic Shakti stones and $12k cables.

Being able to measure doesn't mean measuring things that have nothing to do with the actual goals of the product. Is your goal to own the most perfect-measuring AVP known to man or to have DTS:X Pro and 15.x channel capability with DIRAC LIVE? Amir is a man who gave a headless panther to the Monoprice HTP-1 because of a measurement error on his part (a parameter had to be changed to measure at higher voltages not normally used) and instead of talking to Monoprice about it, he just told people to stay away and refuses to go back and edit or change his review. That measurement had no impact on actual normal usage of the product and is not that different from him trashing products for ringing in the ultrasonic range where we can't hear it so it doesn't flipping matter one iota, but hey, his headphone DAC doesn't have that issue so obviously a multi-kilobuck receiver with tons of other electronics dedicated to things other than headphone output should do as well or better than his headphone DAC! Therefore, it's headless panther time! :rolleyes:

I've got degrees in engineering and I work on industrial machinery. I don't care if they're making ultrasonic noise either as that's not their function and no one can hear it either way. What I need them to do is sort products and move them to the correct bins. The only ultrasonic effect I worry about is whether it's an indication of a bearing going bad in the transport system (I have an ultrasonic probe for exactly that function).

I'm also an audio hobbyist that wants a great processor for Atmos/X/Auro and to me, a pointless measurement and inaudible DAC ringing have ZERO effect on whether I enjoy the product or not, while things like 15-channel processing and DIRAC Live do affect my enjoyment greatly. Amir may be great at measuring things, but that doesn't make me him a great reviewer of audio products. A great reviewer understands the measurements and affords them their part in the review and makes it clear that whatever less than perfect measurement has no effect on audibility doesn't factor into their recommendation of the product because while it might scratch some engineering "itch" it doesn't mean a damn thing to the average consumer (unless you convince them that it does and that's what audio magazines in the other direction have done for years, making huge deals out of things that don't matter or are even just made up). Neither extreme is good, in my opinion. However, unlike some on here, I don't pretend to speak for everyone else.

...

As for the rude nasty people on here (TLS Guy and Verdinut for calling mine dumb complaining about it), well all I can say is you don't damn well speak for me talking down to people who don't share your pseudo-scientific belief system and somehow I doubt you speak for everyone else here either. I haven't seen this guy's other posts, but in the context of this thread, it comes across as holier-than-thou nonsense. You don't have to agree with someone's beliefs to tolerate them sharing their opinions, however ill founded and telling them to hit the pavement is about as rude as it gets and coming from a non-staff member, it's even worse, driving people away from the site that is supposedly a business. I certainly wouldn't put up with members treating newcomers that way (so much for a more inclusive site welcoming all :rolleyes:), but apparently that's not important here, after all.

I shouldn't be surprised since the website has glitched my account and works slow as hell for me for years now and Gene and the gang refuse to do anything about it despite both informal and formal requests (by email and even another site since Gene apparently doesn't read this one) and NADA. My account is still broken/slow across multiple Internet providers, browsers, operating systems and cell phones (i.e. it's the account here, not something in-between) and requires 3-4 reloads to get a message up on average. But if this site is going to have members treat newcomers like crap because they don't believe their measurement system tells all, I don't see why an average bloke would even want to come here. For someone theoretically running a business here, that seems bad to me, but it's not my site so have at it.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I understand what you are saying but you might have missed my point about the part he said: "If it's not audible, it doesn't matter. "

While that may be true, often an engineer would/may not know whether certain specs/effects are audible or not without taking a bunch of measurements that could then be interpreted and then more even more measurements could be taken for further investigations. Most engineers (on the industrial, construction side) I know, worked with, would typically to take a lot of measurements especially troubleshooting, some turned out to be useful while others not.

The same would apply to Audio that as you said, does not affect safety, nor is considered rocket science, but again, we don't always know the audible effects on performance of certain things without first taking some measurements. Now, the story changes if one is more of a so call subjectivist who believe a lot more on ears/brains than on measurements.

Anyway, I am sort of just teasing, no debate necessary..
All fun and games. :D

I just think -- what would other people say when they see guys get EXCITED about some amps having THD+N of 0.0003% when it's completely inaudible compared to THD+N of 0.01%.

It's like, okay, let's pay $3K or $4K for an amp so that I can get THD+N of 0.0003%.

I suppose it's not any worse than guys spending $10K or $20K on amps. But it all just seem funny. :D
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
All fun and games. :D

I just think -- what would other people say when they see guys get EXCITED about some amps having THD+N of 0.0003% when it's completely inaudible compared to THD+N of 0.01%.

It's like, okay, let's pay $3K or $4K for an amp so that I can get THD+N of 0.0003%.

I suppose it's not any worse than guys spending $10K or $20K on amps. But it all just seem funny. :D
Not to mention, one night in the liquor cabinet before a listening session actually move the decimal to the left about 5 places. Lmao.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Not to mention, one night in the liquor cabinet before a listening session actually move the decimal to the left about 5 places. Lmao.
Even before you hit the liquor, all those subwoofers blazing away is going to make even 2% THD seem inconsequential. :D
 
K

keenly

Enthusiast
I have always owned Marantz receivers in the past because to me they always had the sound I liked compared to other brands, I think mainly because of their HDAM discrete preamps but for whatever reason they sound good. I have an SR7010 that had started giving me weird little issues with the HDMI doing weird things, I have an 75" LG OLED with a connected Tivo that is tied together through the HDMI CEC control system and when I hit the off power switch on my Tivo remote it will turn off everything, but then my SR7010 would sometimes kick back on after 30 seconds and a little later shut back off. Strange I Know. I had been looking at replacing it and happen to come across a good deal on a Marantz SR8012 so I purchased it, To my disappointment it doesn't have the Marantz signature sound, I have spent weeks going through and trying every setting possible to make it sound better with no luck, it just sounds like any other receiver now, it has turned my Paradigm studio 100's into "Horned" PA speaker's. Sorry that's my best description of what it sounds like now, it over emphasizes the mid's and upper end frequencies and has no mid bass, its like I can't feel the music anymore the liveness and dynamic feelings are gone from music now. With my previous systems I would love to turn up the music and feel its presence but with the SR8012 I find myself turning it down because it is fatiguing to my ears after a little while listening. I was just hoping to maybe find some other Marantz guy's on here that have or heard the SR8012 or SR8015 and see what their opinions are. I run a Yamaha MX1000U amp for the front channels and have tried my Adcom GFA-555II as well but not much better with or without running amps for the main speakers. I really like the receiver, if it wasn't for me listening to music on it I would just grin and bear it, but unfortunately 60 percent of my listening pleasure is music.
I am really curious if the Marantz Preamp's sound any better or if they changed for the worse on those too when United Sound took over?
I 100% AGREE WITH YOU!

It is a fact Marantz made changes to emphasise the highs more. SR7010 sounded sublime, smooth. SR8012 is nowhere near as nice to the ears. The changes are for the worse.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top