Marantz SR7002 Receiver Review

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for your comment. Would you say that this Marantz will power a 4ohm effectively?

What is the formula for calculating effective wattage given the speaker's ohm rating? If an amplifier indicates 110 w on 8 ohm spk what would be the wattage at 4 ohm? Thanks.
First of all, which Marantz are you talking about?

Regarding your second question, given the speakers ohm rating, assuming it is purely resistive, the power formula can be either:

P=I^2*R, or P=V^2/R, or P=V*I where P=Power (in W or VA), I=Current (in amps), R=Resistance (in ohms), V=Voltage (in Volts) applied across the speaker terminals, W=Watts, VA=Volt-amp.

If the ohmic value is not purely resistive, it is then known as impedance, not resistance, and the formula will then be:

P=V*I*cosΘ,

where Θ is the phase angle between the voltage and current phasors (commonly known as vector in the old days). Cos is cosine. In trigonometry, the cosine of an angle is the ratio of the length of the adjacent side to the length of the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle.

You can see that if you only know the ohmic value of a speaker, there is no formula that can calculate the power developed in that speaker. There is simply not enough information to do the calculation.

However, if it is given that your amp is rated 110W into an 8 ohm load, then it is possible that the amp can be rated for anywhere from 55W (if the amp is 100% current limited) to slightly under 220W (current unlimited), everything else (e.g. distortion, efficiency etc.) being equal.
 
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N

ned

Full Audioholic
Thanks for your reply. It doesn't seem like there is an easy way to determine how much watt you'll need for a particular speaker, does it? It looks like the DB output is more practical way. How then would you know that clipping will occur?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for your reply. It doesn't seem like there is an easy way to determine how much watt you'll need for a particular speaker, does it? It looks like the DB output is more practical way. How then would you know that clipping will occur?
There is no easy way to find out EXACTLY how much you need because it depends on many factors including room acoustic characteristics (dimensions, shape, building materials, furnitures), speaker sensitivities, efficiencies, power handling capabilities, your listening habit/requirements etc.

However, you can at least go with the speaker manufacturer's recommendations but aim for the top limit if you are willing to spend the money, otherwise go for the mid or 3/4 points.

For example, consider the Paradigm Studio 100:

Sensitivity - Room / Anechoic 91 / 88 dB
Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 350 watts
Maximum Input Power 210 watts
Impedance Compatible with 8 ohms

So in this case, go with 350 WPC or at least 200 WPC, and you will be fine.

By the way, sorry about quoting you just bunch of formula without providing the physical meaning of them. It is much more difficult to explain things physically.
 
N

ned

Full Audioholic
There is no easy way to find out ....
These are the specs for my mains:
technical specs
System Type: Tower Speaker
Frequency Response: 27Hz-20kHz (±3dB)
Sensitivity: 88dB (2.83V @ 1 Meter)
Recommended Power: 100-300 Watts
Drive Units: (1) 12" (305mm) Aluminum Cone Subwoofer
(2) 6-1/2" (165mm) Aluminum Cone Woofers
(1) 1" (25mm) Silk Dome Tweeter
Tweeter Protection: Yes
Crossover Frequency: 100Hz, 2,700Hz
Crossover: 24dB/Octave
Impedance: 4 Ohms

It doesn't look like any AV receivers would be powerful enough to go midway here without going into dedicated and more powerful amplifier!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
It doesn't look like any AV receivers would be powerful enough to go midway here without going into dedicated and more powerful amplifier!
You are absolutely right, so what kind of amp are you using to drive them now?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
For the record, the laxed benchtests for the Marantz SR-7002 show it can produce 170 watts x 2 4 ohms, 0.1% THD (far below audible levels) at 1Khz.
 
N

ned

Full Audioholic
You are absolutely right, so what kind of amp are you using to drive them now?
Well, I'm bi amping them using my receiver's 110 wpc plus parasound's 100 wpc. I't doesn't seem like it's enough.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, I'm bi amping them using my receiver's 110 wpc plus parasound's 100 wpc. I't doesn't seem like it's enough.
I can see that, the problem with biamping is that you end up having much than you need for the tweeter and still not enough for the woofers. In your case, that little 100 W Parasound has to feed 1 gigantic 12" subwoofer plus 2 X 6.5" woofers. You need to get an amp.

The only affordable receivers that may marginally do the job for you are the Onkyo TX-SR805, 875, 905 or the corresponding Integra.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
For the record, the laxed benchtests for the Marantz SR-7002 show it can produce 170 watts x 2 4 ohms, 0.1% THD (far below audible levels) at 1Khz.
I am not sure if those are continuous ratings or only for 5 to 10 minutes. Even if the Marantz can do the job, longivity may become questionable. For those speakers, he should get an amp, at least a 2 or 3 channel one and let the receiver or the 100W Parasound take care of the smaller 661 and 61SEs that are 6 and 8 ohms rated.
 
mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
I am not sure if those are continuous ratings or only for 5 to 10 minutes
I thought that more than 10 seconds would be continuous power driven by an amplifier. How long does it take for a signal to drain a power supply of all its juice anyways?!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I thought that more than 10 seconds would be continuous power driven by an amplifier. How long does it take for a signal to drain a power supply of all its juice anyways?!
10 minutes may be fine but not 10 seconds. It is not just a question of draining a power supply. It is also the effect of accumulated heat due to heat generated>heat dissipated by the heat sinks/fan. At the higher current output due to the 4 ohm load, much more heat will be generated; over time there will likely be a net gain of heat causing excessive temperature rise. I am not totally sure, but certainly would think that most (but not all) music or movie material do not call for maximum power continuously for any more than a few minutes. Also, don't forget headroom, surely the 7002 can do 170WX2 into 4 ohms, but at that output level, how much headroom it has left? You probably know that I don't typically promote amps that much, but look at the kind of speakers he has, 4 ohms, 88 dB sensivity with 12" passive sub..........
 
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N

ned

Full Audioholic
I am not sure if those are continuous ratings or only for 5 to 10 minutes. Even if the Marantz can do the job, longivity may become questionable. For those speakers, he should get an amp, at least a 2 or 3 channel one and let the receiver or the 100W Parasound take care of the smaller 661 and 61SEs that are 6 and 8 ohms rated.
Emotiva XPA 5 is quite tempting but at 200 wpc may still not be enough unless i bi amped it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Emotiva XPA 5 is quite tempting but at 200 wpc may still not be enough unless i bi amped it.
If they are rated 200 wpc into 8 ohms they will likely be rated for 300 to 350 wpc into 4 ohms. If that is the case, they have enough power for your 4 ohm RBHs.
 
N

ned

Full Audioholic
If they are rated 200 wpc into 8 ohms they will likely be rated for 300 to 350 wpc into 4 ohms. If that is the case, they have enough power for your 4 ohm RBHs.
Why would a lower ohm rated speaker be more difficult to drive if it requires less watt than an 8ohm speakers?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Why would a lower ohm rated speaker be more difficult to drive if it requires less watt than an 8ohm speakers?
Lower ohm rated speakers do not necessarily require less watts than an 8 ohm speakers. If you consider two speakers with similar characteristics except one is 4 ohm and the other is 8 ohm placed the same way in the same location, how much power they require will be determined by their sensitivity. You have to be careful with the specification however, because sometimes they specify sensitivity in X dB at 1W at 1 meter, other times they specify it in X dB at 2.83V at 1 meter. In terms of X dB 1W at 1 meter you can make a direct comparison while in the format X dB 2.83V at 1 meter you would have to subtract 3 dB for the 4 ohm speaker when you do the comparison because you need double the power to gain 3 dB of sound pressure.

For clarity, consider:

Scenario 1 - Both speakers are specified 87 dB 1W @ 1 meter in an anechoic chamber.

In this case they both require the same power to produce the same sound level.

Scenario 2 - Both specified 87 dB 2.83V @ 1 meter

In this scenario, they are telling you you need to apply 2.83V to the speaker at a certain frequency to produce 87 dB at 1 meter distance so applying one of the formula I listed before:

Power=VXIXCos Θ or (VXV/Z)XCos Θ (V=voltage, Z=impedance)

You can see that the 4 ohm speaker will need twice as much power as the 8 ohm speaker does. If you try it with 2.83V, and assume CosΘ=1, that is the voltage and current phasors are in phase (rarely happen), then:

Power=2.83X2.83/4=2W for the 4 ohm speaker, or 1W for the 8 ohm speaker to produce the same 87 dB at 1 meter.

In order to determine if your 4 ohm speaker requires twice as much power as 8 ohm speaker with similar sensitivity specifications you have pay attention to how they specify them. So once again, if the specifications say 87 dB 1W 1 meter, then you can compare it directly to an 8 ohm speaker that is specified 87 dB 1W 1 meter but if it says 87 dB 2.83V at 1 meter than you need double the power.

You also asked why 4 ohm speakers are more difficult to drive. One of the reason is simply because at a given voltage they will draw twice as much current as an 8 ohm speaker does. That is not always a problem if the speaker's sensivity is high enough to make up for it.

Having read your post again, I thought you may be wondering why a well design amplifier can deliver more power into lower impedance load. Well designed power amplifiers generally have larger (relative to say, receivers and integrated amps) power supplies and electronic components including the power transistors to handle the higher current demand by lower impedance speakers. Since power increases with the square relationship of current and decreases only linearly with impedance, there is an net gain of power delivered to a lower impedance load (speaker). I hope this clarifies things a little.
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Lower impedance speakers are harder to drive because they require more power. Most receivers run out of gas so to speak when trying to drive a constant 4 ohm load at reference levels. Speakers don't ask for power, they take it, and sometimes they try to take more than the power source can handle dishing out, but the power source tries to give the speakers all the power they want even if it's not meant to do so. One of two things will occur if the speakers are taking too much power, it will shut down (protection mode) or it will eventually break down the power source from massive heat build up.
 
G

geraldan

Audiophyte
Marantz SR7002

Setting up HT system, considering this AV receiver. A couple of questions: My centre channel is 4 ohm, 88 db, max power 100w, fronts will be 8 ohm 87db max power 80w, rears 8 ohm 85 db max power 100w - will this receiver do the job?
Regarding its video capabilities, if I get a Blu Ray player such as the Panasonic BDP HDK 50 (or 30) and play a regular DVD (not Blu Ray), will the Blu Ray player upscale to 1080p, and so are the "limitations" of the Marantz video upscaling irrelevant (it only upconverts 480i/p via HDMI)?
Thanks, geraldan (a newbie to all of this technical stuff!)
 
G

Gary Pavlovich

Audiophyte
What are your thoughts on the Harman Kardon AVR247?

To "intheindustry,"

What is your experience with the latest Harman Kardon AVR 247 product?

I am putting together my HT setup and purchased this unit, still new in the box, and haven't installed it yet but reading all the current "problems" should I switch to the Onkyo 605 or 606 for better quality and sound?

Being new to HT, is there an appreciable sound/video quality difference with 1.3 vs. my Harman AVR 247's 1.1 (1.2?) setup?

I would like the best sound and picture in this price range.

Thank you for any help!

Gary
 
M

mpedris

Audiophyte
How might the SR-7002 drive a 4 ohm or 6 ohm load continuously?

A friend is considering buying this receiver to drive the Mirage OMD-5 (rated at 6 ohms) or Sonus Faber Concertino (rated at 4 ohms).

Might a Denon AVR-3808 do a better job at driving the said speakers?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
How might the SR-7002 drive a 4 ohm or 6 ohm load continuously?

A friend is considering buying this receiver to drive the Mirage OMD-5 (rated at 6 ohms) or Sonus Faber Concertino (rated at 4 ohms).

Might a Denon AVR-3808 do a better job at driving the said speakers?

Thanks in advance for any help.
IMO, I wouldn't even consider driving 4ohm speakers continuously on a receiver point.

6ohm might be ok... check the manual/call for tech support.
 
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