Marantz SR6013 Vs Yamaha RX-A1080 AVENTAGE

click

click

Audioholic Intern
My first post in the forum and need your help to choose my next AV Receiver.

My current HT system is a 5.1 setup with Klipsch Reference Premiere speakers for the fronts, driven by a Marantz SR6007 AVR. I am going to move to a new place and I am planing to upgrade to Dolby Atmos by adding a new Dolby Atmos capable receiver and some additional Klipsch surround and ceiling speakers. I am mostly considering to replace my Marantz receiver either by the latest model of the same receiver: SR6013 or by the latest Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1080 which has the same power output per channel (110 W @ 8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven). The 2 AVRs have though major differences in the features and specs:
  • The Marantz SR6013 is a 9.2 ch AVR with 11.2 processing capability, while the Yamaha RX-A1080 is only 7.2. That's not very important for me since I am going to go anyway for a 5.1.2 setup and probably I will stay with this for ever. I do not think I have enough space for more speakers, but more channels it's a nice to have just in case at some point in the future I have second thoughts.
  • The Marantz uses Audyssey XT32, the Yamaha uses YPAO with 64-bit Precision EQ. It is said that Audyssey is generally better, however for my small easy space, maybe this is not going to make much difference.
  • The Yamaha has a DAB+ receiver. Again this is not a top priority feature since both support digital internet radio, however it is a nice to have since there are many DAB stations broadcasting in my region.
  • The Marantz supports Google Assistant and Siri via AirPlay 2 voice control. Another nice to have feature.
  • The Yamaha seams to have better DACs with higher sampling rate: ES9007S at 384 kHz / 32-bit, while Marantz uses AKM DACs at 192 kHz / 32 Bit. Not sure how much difference can make this.
  • The Yamaha, at least on paper, has higher S/N ratio, not sure how much difference can make this in the overall performance.
  • The Yamaha can play more and higher quality audio formats. I do not know if this is relevant for me, perhaps it will be more convenient to play audio files from computers and other sources rather than directly on the receiver.
  • The Yamaha has more audio inputs which I probably never use.
  • The Marantz has an extra HDMI input on the front panel, multi-channel input and composite and component outputs, I probably never use none of them.
  • The Marantz is IMAX Enhanced, not sure how important is this.
  • The Yamaha has many DSP Programs and supports DTS Neo, not sure how useful those could be for me.
  • Finally the two receivers use different proprietary technologies like HDAM, M-DAX2 and HEOS wireless streaming for the Marantz and A.R.T. Wedge, the new Surround:AI technology and MusicCast wireless streaming for the Yamaha. Again I am not very sure about the importance of those technologies.
There are probably more other small differences in the features that I now forget. One thing I would like to point out is that I generally prefer the design of the Yamaha with the clean all metal face, the big LED screen and the well built knobs, over the plastic side parts on the front face, the cheap knobs and the small screen of the Marantz.

However, what is Nr.1 priority for me to make the decision is the sound quality in stereo music. I mostly listen to music from my system, much more than playing movies, and if there is a notable difference on how it sounds the one receiver along with my speakers over the other, I will immediately discard all the above mentioned differences in features and I am going to choose simply the one that sounds better.

Both receivers have excellent reviews regarding the overall sound quality, and Marantz is generally considered as one of the best for music listening (that's the main reason why I currently own a Marantz),but if Yamaha's AVENTAGE series is even better regarding specifically the musicality, I am willing to switch even if this costs me a bit more. If the 2 receivers are pretty much equal in that aspect, I think I will probably choose the cheapest one I find on the market unless someone can convince me for the importance of any of the above features or for something else.

I have red many reviews in the net but still struggling to make a decision. Any help would be very appreciated.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Field Marshall
My vote is for the Yamaha AVR and I use my various Yamaha AVR's way more for music than I do for home theater. They also have a well deserved reputation for long-term reliability.

Either way you can't go wrong.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
My first post in the forum and need your help to choose my next AV Receiver.

My current HT system is a 5.1 setup with Klipsch Reference Premiere speakers for the fronts, driven by a Marantz SR6007 AVR. I am going to move to a new place and I am planing to upgrade to Dolby Atmos by adding a new Dolby Atmos capable receiver and some additional Klipsch surround and ceiling speakers. I am mostly considering to replace my Marantz receiver either by the latest model of the same receiver: SR6013 or by the latest Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1080 which has the same power output per channel (110 W @ 8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven). The 2 AVRs have though major differences in the features and specs:
  • The Marantz SR6013 is a 9.2 ch AVR with 11.2 processing capability, while the Yamaha RX-A1080 is only 7.2. That's not very important for me since I am going to go anyway for a 5.1.2 setup and probably I will stay with this for ever. I do not think I have enough space for more speakers, but more channels it's a nice to have just in case at some point in the future I have second thoughts.
  • The Marantz uses Audyssey XT32, the Yamaha uses YPAO with 64-bit Precision EQ. It is said that Audyssey is generally better, however for my small easy space, maybe this is not going to make much difference.
  • The Yamaha has a DAB+ receiver. Again this is not a top priority feature since both support digital internet radio, however it is a nice to have since there are many DAB stations broadcasting in my region.
  • The Marantz supports Google Assistant and Siri via AirPlay 2 voice control. Another nice to have feature.
  • The Yamaha seams to have better DACs with higher sampling rate: ES9007S at 384 kHz / 32-bit, while Marantz uses AKM DACs at 192 kHz / 32 Bit. Not sure how much difference can make this.
  • The Yamaha, at least on paper, has higher S/N ratio, not sure how much difference can make this in the overall performance.
  • The Yamaha can play more and higher quality audio formats. I do not know if this is relevant for me, perhaps it will be more convenient to play audio files from computers and other sources rather than directly on the receiver.
  • The Yamaha has more audio inputs which I probably never use.
  • The Marantz has an extra HDMI input on the front panel, multi-channel input and composite and component outputs, I probably never use none of them.
  • The Marantz is IMAX Enhanced, not sure how important is this.
  • The Yamaha has many DSP Programs and supports DTS Neo, not sure how useful those could be for me.
  • Finally the two receivers use different proprietary technologies like HDAM, M-DAX2 and HEOS wireless streaming for the Marantz and A.R.T. Wedge, the new Surround:AI technology and MusicCast wireless streaming for the Yamaha. Again I am not very sure about the importance of those technologies.
There are probably more other small differences in the features that I now forget. One thing I would like to point out is that I generally prefer the design of the Yamaha with the clean all metal face, the big LED screen and the well built knobs, over the plastic side parts on the front face, the cheap knobs and the small screen of the Marantz.

However, what is Nr.1 priority for me to make the decision is the sound quality in stereo music. I mostly listen to music from my system, much more than playing movies, and if there is a notable difference on how it sounds the one receiver along with my speakers over the other, I will immediately discard all the above mentioned differences in features and I am going to choose simply the one that sounds better.

Both receivers have excellent reviews regarding the overall sound quality, and Marantz is generally considered as one of the best for music listening (that's the main reason why I currently own a Marantz),but if Yamaha's AVENTAGE series is even better regarding specifically the musicality, I am willing to switch even if this costs me a bit more. If the 2 receivers are pretty much equal in that aspect, I think I will probably choose the cheapest one I find on the market unless someone can convince me for the importance of any of the above features or for something else.

I have red many reviews in the net but still struggling to make a decision. Any help would be very appreciated.

Your detailed post makes it easy to respond, and the following are my 2 cents.

- The RX-A1080 does not have better DAC, the ES9007 data sheet is not available on the web, but it is likely the same as the ES9006, just different part number. It appears to have been launched in 2007, along with the ES9006 and ES9008 (a flag ship for years).

- The SR6013 has the AK4458 that actually is 5 dB better in THD and 5 dB worse in Dynamic range than the ES9006, so I guess it is fair to call it even. Both have audio related specs well above certain upstream components that are the real bottleneck so it really is a moot point. Regardless, when you get to this level of DAC specs, it is highly unlikely that the average human can tell any audible difference.

- Both DAC should be capable to handle 384 kHz/24/32bit files if implemented for, and if you can find the contents. Yamaha claimed its RX-A series can do it, but they down sample it anyway, except for pure direct mode. In PD mode, your can only play those high sample rate media from the network and usb input. In practical term, this feature is really meaningless. Still, practical or not, I would give Yamaha's DSP the edge.

- Reviews/musicality etc., those subjective reviews are of little value. Subjective is subjective, there is no point to debate or over think which one is more musical as such. If the reviewer/user claimed he/she could hear a difference, it begs the question whether he/she was comparing apple to apple (sources, speakers, placement accessories etc.),level matched, Placebo, expectation bias. It is extremely difficult to validate such claims, hearsay over the years rule, so even if Denon and Marantz's comparable models are virtually the same internally on the electronics, there is a group of people who would/could hear the so called "warm" sound, regardless..., and that's just one example.

In case you are interested in reading something a little technical, below is link to one good read, that came from a credible (imo) source. If you read the whole thing, you would at least see his point about why the HDAM modules shouldn't make an audible difference, whether you believe it or not..

https://hometheaterhifi.com/technical/technical-reviews/options-by-supplier-and-price/

Between those two, my pick is the SR6013 for the obvious reasons, 5.1.4 is much better than 5.1.2.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
As for reliability between the two units, if you go check out accessories4less, you'll see both manufacturers have a bunch of refurbs on that website. Both are really nice AVR'S. For me it would come down to the best price.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Your detailed post makes it easy to respond, and the following are my 2 cents.

- The RX-A1080 does not have better DAC, the ES9007 data sheet is not available on the web, but it is likely the same as the ES9006, just different part number. It appears to have been launched in 2007, along with the ES9006 and ES9008 (a flag ship for years).

- The SR6013 has the AK4458 that actually is 5 dB better in THD and 5 dB worse in Dynamic range than the ES9006, so I guess it is fair to call it even. Both have audio related specs well above certain upstream components that are the real bottleneck so it really is a moot point. Regardless, when you get to this level of DAC specs, it is highly unlikely that the average human can tell any audible difference.

- Both DAC should be capable to handle 384 kHz/24/32bit files if implemented for, and if you can find the contents. Yamaha claimed its RX-A series can do it, but they down sample it anyway, except for pure direct mode. In PD mode, your can only play those high sample rate media from the network and usb input. In practical term, this feature is really meaningless. Still, practical or not, I would give Yamaha's DSP the edge.

- Reviews/musicality etc., those subjective reviews are of little value. Subjective is subjective, there is no point to debate or over think which one is more musical as such. If the reviewer/user claimed he/she could hear a difference, it begs the question whether he/she was comparing apple to apple (sources, speakers, placement accessories etc.),level matched, Placebo, expectation bias. It is extremely difficult to validate such claims, hearsay over the years rule, so even if Denon and Marantz's comparable models are virtually the same internally on the electronics, there is a group of people who would/could hear the so called "warm" sound, regardless..., and that's just one example.

In case you are interested in reading something a little technical, below is link to one good read, that came from a credible (imo) source. If you read the whole thing, you would at least see his point about why the HDAM modules shouldn't make an audible difference, whether you believe it or not..

https://hometheaterhifi.com/technical/technical-reviews/options-by-supplier-and-price/

Between those two, my pick is the SR6013 for the obvious reasons, 5.1.4 is much better than 5.1.2.
Informative article...
Unfortunately, dated now 6 years later there has been significant upgrading of the mentioned internal components...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
Thank you very much all for your replies.

@PENG
So what you are actually saying is I shouldn't really care about DACs and other specs, technologies or features (HDAM, discrete Amplifiers etc. ) in relation to the music performance of a receiver. I also shouldn't pay much attention to the subjective reviews saying how each receiver sounds to the ears of the reviewer (to be honest I never understood what exactly "warm" and "cold" sound means).

However I am wondering, are there any objective criteria like lab measurements etc., that can show advantages of the one receiver over the other in audio fidelity and how well they reproduce sound? Are there also any objective criteria regarding which one would collaborate better with my speakers?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If you've had 100% awesome experience with Marantz, then you may continue to have that experience.

According MCode Yamaha is #1 in reliability and HDMI compatibility.

If you don't care for room EQ, then RC doesn't matter.

In Straight/Stereo/Direct mode, I think they will sound equally great.

I've used Denon for years. Now I use Yamaha.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Informative article...
Unfortunately, dated now 6 years later there has been significant upgrading of the mentioned internal components...

Just my $0.02... ;)
You are right, to a point. I did do some follow up on my own by reading available service manuals of up to some D&M 2017 models and Yamaha's X050/60 series as well as their A-S301 through S801. I found that D&M did make changes to their 2017 models but not the 2016 ones. The AV8802A had the HDAM modules upgraded to use more discrete components but they still have the same Renasas LSI chip for the preamp, so what Dr. Rich said about the AV8801 would still apply, unfortunately. According the Denon Japan though, the AVR-X8500H, and therefore by extension, likely also the Marantz AV8805 might have finally upgraded from those LSI chip to individual dedicated components.
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
If you've had 100% awesome experience with Marantz, then you may continue to have that experience.

According MCode Yamaha is #1 in reliability and HDMI compatibility.

If you don't care for room EQ, then RC doesn't matter.

In Straight/Stereo/Direct mode, I think they will sound equally great.

I've used Denon for years. Now I use Yamaha.
I have a very good experience with Marantz so far. Sound to my ears is very good but I never had the chance to do side by side comparison to any other receiver to see if there is any difference and if it can get any better with my speakers.

As for the user interface and reliability I am also pretty happy. I find the menus easy and intuitive and never had major reliability issues.

The only thing I don't like is that after running the Audyssey calibration you have no way to do some fine tuning with equalizers and bring the sound to your personal preference. Even the volume of each speaker can not be adjusted by listening to real content, only by hearing some white noise which is very annoying, but I think all these are fixed in the later D&M AVR models by the Audyssey mobile app (this is not supported by my receiver). Sometimes my Marantz also loses network connectivity and doesn't respond to the mobile app, until you unplug and plug back the power cable, but this is not happening very often. Other than that it is all good so far.

Since you have experience from both brands, would you mind to tell me which one you find better regarding the user friendliness and the menus (forget about the features)?

Thanks
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you very much all for your replies.

@PENG
So what you are actually saying is I shouldn't really care about DACs and other specs, technologies or features (HDAM, discrete Amplifiers etc. ) in relation to the music performance of a receiver. I also shouldn't pay much attention to the subjective reviews saying how each receiver sounds to the ears of the reviewer (to be honest I never understood what exactly "warm" and "cold" sound means).
Regarding the DACs and preamps, not exactly.... What I said only apply to DACs such as the ones used in current year Denon, Marantz, Yamaha (only the higher RX-V and RX-A models),and some Onkyo/Integra models.

As to subjective reviews, yes because if it is subjective, it is hard to know whether their views would coincide with yours. For example, many people like Klipsch speakers, but many don't. You hit the nail on the head regarding the "warm" sound. It likely means a little bias toward the mid bass, but how warm, or how less cold is the Marantz warm, and how about less warm are comparable products that wear the Denon badge, when the preamps, DACs and power amps are exactly the same. Does the warmth come from the HDAM, well your SR6007 and many older Marantz preamps don't have HDAM, so for the newer Marantz models, where's the warm from, considering that the hearsay about that signature warm or even named "golden" sound came from the old days? That's just food for thought, please don't take it too seriously now.:D

However I am wondering, are there any objective criteria like lab measurements etc., that can show advantages of the one receiver over the other in audio fidelity and how well they reproduce sound? Are there also any objective criteria regarding which one would collaborate better with my speakers?
Advantages in terms of audio fidelity? Absolutely yes, for example, if (as @M Code suggested, and Denon Japan did make such claim re the flag ship X8500H) the current Denon AVR-X8500H and the Marantz AV8805 (by extension only, and is just my own assumption) in fact have upgraded their preamp/volume control section, then they might have addressed Dr. Rich's comments in the article I linked. However, it doesn't mean the use of the so called "HifFi" grade components in certain part of the circuitry (at least that's what Denon called it) would result in audibly better sound quality. It should show better specs, but as pointed out many times, you can't just go by audio specs such as THD, SN, DNR, IMD, TIM etc, but that's a totally different and controversial topic. I can just tell you in my experience, even my lowly X4400H sounds as good as my separate components (including Marantz).

If you are interested, here's the link to Denon's claim on the preamp upgrade (from using single chip (LSI) to specific ones for vol control):
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.denon.jp/jp/blog/3868/index.html&xid=17259,15700022,15700186,15700191,15700253,15700256,15700259&usg=ALkJrhgJoIPtdRpaIS-WeZpsKd9OICZ09Q

I don't know if Yamaha has done similar "upgrade" to their RX-A X080 series, their service manuals/schematics are not available for download, understandably.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Thank you very much all for your replies.

@PENG
So what you are actually saying is I shouldn't really care about DACs and other specs, technologies or features (HDAM, discrete Amplifiers etc. ) in relation to the music performance of a receiver. I also shouldn't pay much attention to the subjective reviews saying how each receiver sounds to the ears of the reviewer (to be honest I never understood what exactly "warm" and "cold" sound means).

However I am wondering, are there any objective criteria like lab measurements etc., that can show advantages of the one receiver over the other in audio fidelity and how well they reproduce sound? Are there also any objective criteria regarding which one would collaborate better with my speakers?
To put it another way, both the Yamaha and the Marantz you are looking at are well designed modern AVR's. The same known science and physics are applied in their designs.
Both of their marketing departments work hard to convince you that they have some exclusive feature that distinguishes their receiver by magically transforming it into something miraculously better. Reviewers for magazines are ultimately paid by the advertisers of their magazine and the old adage "don't bite the hand that feeds" applies so they artfully manage to write positive after positive review of the different AVR's and pretend like matching an AVR to your taste is critical when any difference between the sound of receivers is insignificant as compared to the differences between speakers and rooms acoustics. Put your time and energy into getting the right speakers and improving room acoustics! Assuming your AVR has power to properly drive your speakers, you will not find a distinct difference between AVR's (aside from possible differences between their EQ options).

As for Marantz vs Yamaha,it depends how good of a deal you can find on which. In general, I have found that Marantz usually offers more power and features for less money (and Denon even more so). For the best value, a new Denon from last year is the best deal - the discounts usually start in November.
However, if you run across the right bargain for a Yamaha, go for it!

A lot of people like to endorse what they own - something about human nature. But I think it is reasonable to take a mercenary attitude and get whatever gets you the features you want with the most money left in your pocket!

And you are correct that the new D&M Audyssey app resolves your complaints (it costs an additional $20).

Edit - I have to add that the lower end Yamaha receivers should be avoided. If you look at the 1st paragraph of the Audioholics conclusion for the Yamaha A860 (link below) you will see what I mean. This is a shame, because I also believe Yamaha's best stuff is as good as any (and I love my Yamaha sax!). My understanding is that the 1080 is a solid unit, so this does not apply directly to your question. It is a qualification on my comment above.
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-a860/conclusion
 
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click

click

Audioholic Intern
Right now in my area (Germany),in the best deals I can find, Marantz SR6013 is around 300 euros cheaper than Yamaha RX-A1080. However, I am planning to make this purchase after I move to my new place and finish all works and speaker installations, in about 6-9 month time from now. By that time the price difference on the market between the two receivers is going to be much smaller, perhaps around 100 euros (my estimations are based on how the previous models of the same receivers are priced here). If I had to buy it now I think I would go for the Marantz.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Right now in my area (Germany),in the best deals I can find, Marantz SR6013 is around 300 euros cheaper than Yamaha RX-A1080. However, I am planning to make this purchase after I move to my new place and finish all works and speaker installations, in about 6-9 month time from now. By that time the price difference on the market between the two receivers is going to be much smaller, perhaps around 100 euros (my estimations are based on how the previous models of the same receivers are priced here). If I had to buy it now I think I would go for the Marantz.
Germany huh? I've always wanted to visit Germany. My oldest brother was stationed in Frankfurt Germany during Vietnam War said it's a very beautiful country.
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
I lived in Frankfurt in the past for 2 years. It's a nice place to live, it's not one the most beautiful parts of the country though. Now I live in the very south of the country where the nature is much nicer. By the way I am not German, I am Greek.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Right now in my area (Germany),in the best deals I can find, Marantz SR6013 is around 300 euros cheaper than Yamaha RX-A1080. However, I am planning to make this purchase after I move to my new place and finish all works and speaker installations, in about 6-9 month time from now. By that time the price difference on the market between the two receivers is going to be much smaller, perhaps around 100 euros (my estimations are based on how the previous models of the same receivers are priced here). If I had to buy it now I think I would go for the Marantz.
If things work there the same way they work here (I don't know why it would be different),there is at least a brief period where a new model is just released and distributors clearance remaining inventory of last years model. This is the way many of us plan our AVR upgrades. Generally, (despite what the marketing copy will say) the difference between last year's and this year's model is of little consequence. I bet there was a period right after the 1080 came out that you could buy a new 1070 at 30-50% discount. I know this is especially true of Denon here in the USA. It seems that distributors/Denon deliberately piles up inventory so there is an opportunity to sell a ton of AVR's at discount prices for those benefited most by high volume/low profit sales structure (on-line and big box). So keep your eyes open and maybe talk to any on-line sellers about how it worked last year when the new models came out.
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
Edit - I have to add that the lower end Yamaha receivers should be avoided. If you look at the 1st paragraph of the Audioholics conclusion for the Yamaha A860 (link below) you will see what I mean. This is a shame, because I also believe Yamaha's best stuff is as good as any (and I love my Yamaha sax!). My understanding is that the 1080 is a solid unit, so this does not apply directly to your question. It is a qualification on my comment above.
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-a860/conclusion
The Yamaha RX-A880, one model below A1080 I guess is not considered to be among the lower end Yamaha models. It has different DAC of a lower class than A1080, but if DAC as you all say is not making any difference in that level, I am wondering perhaps this is also enough for my needs, my Klipsch speakers are not that power demanding and this amp specs only 10W lower power than the model above, while it still has all other modern features and costs considerably less money. In fact I can currently find in German market very good deals for last year model A870 .
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
The Yamaha RX-A880, one model below A1080 I guess is not considered to be among the lower end Yamaha models. It has different DAC of a lower class than A1080, but if DAC as you all say is not making any difference in that level
Let me be clearer, I am not concern about DAC chips at the ES9006/7 and the AK4458's level. Below that, I cant/won't say for sure without seeing the specific chip's data sheet.

One more thing, most AVRs use a lower end DAC chip for zone 2/3 and USB input.

For even 100 eu less, the SR6013 represents much better value, that's just my opinion.
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
Thank you, so I will stay in my initial 2 picks and stop looking at anything below them. I do not want to risk it in case DAC does make some difference in those categories.

By the way I do not mind about zone 2 and USB input. Most of my music will be played from the network or via airplay to the main zone of the receiver.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you, so I will stay in my initial 2 picks and stop looking at anything below them. I do not want to risk it in case DAC does make some difference in those categories.

By the way I do not mind about zone 2 and USB input. Most of my music will be played from the network or via airplay to the main zone of the receiver.
Have you done any comparison listening on 5.1.2 and 5.1.4 Atmos? To me you don't get the intended effects with just .2.
 
click

click

Audioholic Intern
No, in fact I have never experienced Dolby Atmos yet. But I see nowadays more and more media like Netflix, iTunes store and Blu-rays support natively this format and since I am going to rebuild my HT setup due to my move, I found good Idea to upgrade to DA. The problem is I do not think I have enough space for more speakers to go for 5.1.4 setup. My couch is going to be attached to the back wall in the room, so no speakers can be placed enough behind the listening position.
 

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