Marantz mm7055 and mm8077

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mattburk

Audioholic Intern
I have an M&K S150 7 channel system and the mm7055 5 channel amp. I wanted the marantz amp as it matches the av8802. I know that marantz is rated down to 6 Ohm and the M&K are 4 Ohm. I have not had a problem with the mm7055, except i did get the protection light to come on, but i can't say it was from pushing the speakers..random electrical issue i hope.

I would like a 7 channel amp, so my question is: would the 8077 be an upgrade in sound? It seems to only have about 10 more watts, butt a much higher filter cap rating.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have an M&K S150 7 channel system and the mm7055 5 channel amp. I wanted the marantz amp as it matches the av8802. I know that marantz is rated down to 6 Ohm and the M&K are 4 Ohm. I have not had a problem with the mm7055, except i did get the protection light to come on, but i can't say it was from pushing the speakers..random electrical issue i hope.

I would like a 7 channel amp, so my question is: would the 8077 be an upgrade in sound? It seems to only have about 10 more watts, butt a much higher filter cap rating.
S&V bench test results show practically no difference in power output, but if you need 7 channel, go for it.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
except i did get the protection light to come on, but i can't say it was from pushing the speakers..random electrical issue i hope.
I missed this part! So was it a one time deal, or you are getting the light regularly but only if you crank the volume right up and/or when watching loud action movies etc.? Did the unit shutdown, or just the light flashing?

Also, what is your seating distance?

Try the calculator linked below to figure out your power need, for sensitivity, use 89 instead of the specified 92, to allow for the lower impedance.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

If you sit >=10 ft and enjoy your movies at loud cinema like level, the MM8055/8077 would be marginally adequate and would explain why you may be getting the occasionally warning light or even shutdown.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Assuming the 5-channel amp is ok, perhaps consider running your front 3 on a separate 3-channel amp? (Or stereo amp for L/R?)
Unless it’s just about the aesthetics of matching equipment, why not consider the new 7000x amp from Outlaw (or their other 7-channel offerings?),or Emotiva XPA-7? Amps shouldn’t change the sound, but either is good for 4-ohms, and both are rated for all-channels-driven, as opposed to the Marantz amps which are only rated for 2-channels driven for that specified power. For that latter point, more headroom, even though just a touch, perhaps. But your speakers can handle the extra juice. :)
 
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S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have an M&K S150 7 channel system and the mm7055 5 channel amp. I wanted the marantz amp as it matches the av8802. I know that marantz is rated down to 6 Ohm and the M&K are 4 Ohm. I have not had a problem with the mm7055, except i did get the protection light to come on, but i can't say it was from pushing the speakers..random electrical issue i hope.

I would like a 7 channel amp, so my question is: would the 8077 be an upgrade in sound? It seems to only have about 10 more watts, butt a much higher filter cap rating.
You should get an amp rated at what the speakers require, i.e. if your speakers are rated at 4 ohms, you want an amp rated down to 4 ohms, not 6 ohms. It's why your speaker protection light came on.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
As others have said, the Marantz MM8077 would neither upgrade sound or power output. The smallest step up in power that would be halfway worthwhile IMHO would be the 200WPC Monoprice Monolith 5 or 7, and even then you're only talking about a couple dB of extra output. It's doubtful your M&K's could tolerate much more power beyond that anyway.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You should get an amp rated at what the speakers require, i.e. if your speakers are rated at 4 ohms, you want an amp rated down to 4 ohms, not 6 ohms. It's why your speaker protection light came on.
Not always, there are other important factors including seating distance, sound pressure level required for the application and the individual, speaker sensitivity, power handling capability etc. For argument sake, a 50 W 4 ohm rated amp could be worse than a 140 W 8 ohm rated (such as the MM7055) amp.

Another example, my ex avr, the 4308CI was rated 140 W, 8 ohms, but was bench tested to output

"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 298.0 watts and 1% distortion at 343.4 watts. " So in the real world, that 140 W AVR, beats some 100-120 W 4 ohm rated integrated or even power amps.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4308ci-av-receiver-measurements

The MM7055 also did not too bad for 4 ohm load:

"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 215.8 watts and 1 percent distortion at 236.4 watts"

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/marantz-av7005-surround-processor-and-mm7055-amplifier-ht-labs-measures#BFqWIA0rBl6uB6gt.99

Not as good as the AVR-4308 but close..
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think 4 ohms impedance is too difficult for even most AVRs.

I am glad my Yamaha amp is rated for 500 Watts-2-ohm Dynamic Power. :D

I bet the Marantz amp is also capable of some dynamic 2-ohm power (maybe 400 watts?), but it would be nice if they could specify that.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Those MK speakers (1.1" tweeters x 3, 5.25" midrange x 2, 92dB/2.83v/m, 25-500W, 4 ohms) sort of have similar specs to my RBH SX-T1/R speakers (1" tweeters x 3, 6.5" midrange x 4, 92dB/2/83v/m, 100-500W, 4ohms).

My listening distance is 18FT. My Yamaha MX-A5000 amp powers 9 speakers total - 5 of the RBH SX-T1/R speakers and 4 RBH VM-815 ceiling speakers.

So if the MK speakers are only 10-12 FT away, I think the Marantz amp should be able to power them just fine.

As already mentioned by PENG, why do you want a 7CH amp? Need to power more speakers? Or just want "better sound"?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Those MK speakers (1.1" tweeters x 3, 5.25" midrange x 2, 92dB/2.83v/m, 25-500W, 4 ohms) sort of have similar specs to my RBH SX-T1/R speakers (1" tweeters x 3, 6.5" midrange x 4, 92dB/2/83v/m, 100-500W, 4ohms).

My listening distance is 18FT. My Yamaha MX-A5000 amp powers 9 speakers total - 5 of the RBH SX-T1/R speakers and 4 RBH VM-815 ceiling speakers.

So if the MK speakers are only 10-12 FT away, I think the Marantz amp should be able to power them just fine.

As already mentioned by PENG, why do you want a 7CH amp? Need to power more speakers? Or just want "better sound"?
That's why I mentioned sound pressure level requirements by the individual. If you listen to 85 dB average 105 dB peak, even at 10 ft, the MM7055 could be marginal at best. I typically need 70-75 dB average, so just about any mid range AVR could do the job for me, but like you, I still have too many amps just because..:D
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
The MM7055 also did not too bad for 4 ohm load:

"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 215.8 watts and 1 percent distortion at 236.4 watts"
IME, the MM7055 didn't have any major problems driving the real (vs rated) 4 ohm load my KEF setup presented, though I'm ~8' from the speakers, not >10' (probably countered by their lower sensitivity), and that included plenty of spirited sessions playing at reference level. The main thing to keep in mind there is that the fan's air flow out the side of the chassis is unrestricted.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Unless I missed something, OP is using Av8802 pre-pro... so he does need the amp. ;)

My Marantz AVR can do 4ohms, and I suspect his 5-channel should, too, but maybe not so well for handling the front channels? (Speculation)

If he can get the 5 channel turned back on, I would think using that for Surround and Rears would be ideal while putting a 3 channel amp up front. Or 3 2200s? ;) (Totally in love with those, Peng!)

Edit: It occurs to me, after seeing Steve's post, and if IIRC, the tech that serviced my AVR said overheating protection should allow you to switch it back on after it cools down. But if there is a clipping fault in the Amp, or other Amp related issue, they lock and have to be serviced to unlock the protection.
If it is an overheating issue, add fans to help protect yourself... a small expense compared to cost of service, and shipping charges if needed! (the tech told me, keep 6" on sides and top, minimum. I also use an AC Infinity Aircom T series on top of mine... if you like that idea, and have an open back to your equipment rack, I recommend the rear-venting T8. Cheers!
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Unless I missed something, OP is using Av8802 pre-pro... so he does need the amp. ;)

My Marantz AVR can do 4ohms, and I suspect his 5-channel should, too, but maybe not so well for handling the front channels? (Speculation)

If he can get the 5 channel turned back on, I would think using that for Surround and Rears would be ideal while putting a 3 channel amp up front. Or 3 2200s? ;) (Totally in love with those, Peng!)

Edit: It occurs to me, after seeing Steve's post, and if IIRC, the tech that serviced my AVR said overheating protection should allow you to switch it back on after it cools down. But if there is a clipping fault in the Amp, or other Amp related issue, they lock and have to be serviced to unlock the protection.
If it is an overheating issue, add fans to help protect yourself... a small expense compared to cost of service, and shipping charges if needed! (the tech told me, keep 6" on sides and top, minimum. I also use an AC Infinity Aircom T series on top of mine... if you like that idea, and have an open back to your equipment rack, I recommend the rear-venting T8. Cheers!
Yes he needs an amp, or two. His question is whether the MM8077 is an "upgrade in sound"?

The correct answer is "no". To really make a difference, he would likely need something like an Anthem MCA 525, Halo A51, or equivalent ATI, Outlaw amp but the first step should be to use an online calculator to find out how much power into 4 ohms he need. This step is important as he is getting the "protection" light, though we need more details on that..
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Not always, there are other important factors including seating distance, sound pressure level required for the application and the individual, speaker sensitivity, power handling capability etc. For argument sake, a 50 W 4 ohm rated amp could be worse than a 140 W 8 ohm rated (such as the MM7055) amp.

Another example, my ex avr, the 4308CI was rated 140 W, 8 ohms, but was bench tested to output

"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reached 0.1% distortion at 298.0 watts and 1% distortion at 343.4 watts. " So in the real world, that 140 W AVR, beats some 100-120 W 4 ohm rated integrated or even power amps.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4308ci-av-receiver-measurements

The MM7055 also did not too bad for 4 ohm load:

"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 215.8 watts and 1 percent distortion at 236.4 watts"

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/marantz-av7005-surround-processor-and-mm7055-amplifier-ht-labs-measures#BFqWIA0rBl6uB6gt.99

Not as good as the AVR-4308 but close..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am not clear what message you are trying to convey as the video did not contradict what I stated in my post. If it is still about the so called 8 ohm/4 ohm amp thing, please re-watch the video at around 6:50 to 6:65 where the gentleman summarized that, ....modern amp...can drive 4,6, or 8 ohm...if you have a modern amplifier......don't worry about it.

Basically, any mid level receiver, integrated amp, power amp from the major brands that people discussed on this forum such as D&M, Parasound, Emotiva, Outlaw, Yamaha etc., could have been rated for 4 ohms if the manufacturers chose to. That could mean too much work/cost, it is easier to simply rate them for 8 ohms, or they would provide a selector switch or setting to lower the rail voltage (or by other means) in order to get by certain regulatory rules, that's all.

For someone who has basic electrical knowledge (everyone knows Ohm's law right?), the issue with lower impedance is the resulting increase in current for the same power output.

For 100 W output into an 8 ohm load, the current will be equal to square root 100/8 = 3.535 A
For 50 W output into a 4 ohm load, the current will be equal to square root 50/4 = 3.535 A

So basically (as always, there could be caveats..),a 100 W rated amp could be rated 100 W into 8 ohm, and 50 W into 4 ohm. As mentioned above, some would provide a hard switch, or software setting to enforce the current limit required for the lower impedance. For many practical applications when people don't push their receivers/amps anywhere close to their limits, there should be no need to to worry about such switch/setting that if used, would limit current indiscriminately, potentially limiting the dynamics of music and movies.

All else being equal, obviously a 4 ohm rated amp should be able to handle sqrt(2) X the current, thereby can be rated close to 2X the power output, vs an 8 ohm rated amp. That's why I said what I said in the first paragraph of my post#9, instead of some sort of blanket statement.

Back to the OP's question, he didn't ask about power output, but "....upgrade in sound.." As soon as I realized he mentioned the protection light, and that his speakers are rated 4 ohms, I alerted him by asking questions regarding seating distance, spl requirements etc. That's because I suspect he needs to worry more about not having enough juice for his speakers, than the "sound quality" of his amp. I could have suggested that he get a 500 W amp and call it a day, but I typically try to avoid blanket statements. He probably does need a more powerful amp (not just a 4 ohm rated amp),but I would like him to answer my questions first.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I still have too many amps just because..:D
You can't have too many amps especially these days when people have 11CH (7.1.4) to 13CH (7.1.6) Atmos systems. :eek:

In the old days, all people ever needed were a 5Ch amps for 5.1. :D

It is getting out of control these days.

First, Denon came out with their 10CH amp. Then Yamaha came out with their 11CH amp. :D

I guess it's not too far fetch to imaging Yamaha or someone else eventually coming out with a 13Ch amp since Denon already made a 13Ch AVR. Will see how reliable they are. :D

I guess 4 ceiling speakers just aren't enough anymore. Gotta have 6 ceiling speakers in the future. So if you're installing ceiling speakers now, might as well put 6 up there. :D:D

I just remember the new Marantz AV8805 can do 9.1.6 processing, which actually has more Channels than the DataSat LS10, ATI ATP16, and Monolith HTP-1 7.1.6 pre-pros! :eek::D
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You can't have too many amps especially these days when people have 11CH (7.1.4) to 13CH (7.1.6) Atmos systems. :eek:

In the old days, all people ever needed were a 5Ch amps for 5.1. :D

It is getting out of control these days.

First, Denon came out with their 10CH amp. Then Yamaha came out with their 11CH amp. :D

I guess it's not too far fetch to imaging Yamaha or someone else eventually coming out with a 13Ch amp since Denon already made a 13Ch AVR. Will see how reliable they are. :D

I guess 4 ceiling speakers just aren't enough anymore. Gotta have 6 ceiling speakers in the future. So if you're installing ceiling speakers now, might as well put 6 up there. :D:D

I just remember the new Marantz AV8805 can do 9.1.6 processing, which actually has more Channels than the DataSat LS10, ATI ATP16, and Monolith HTP-1 7.1.6 pre-pros! :eek::D
True to a point, I have only 3 amps/11 channels in my 7.1.4 HT system, but I think I have too many preamps/power amps/integrated amp for my two channel systems, ended up with some sitting idling, two actually on the floor not even hooked up. They all sound great, if used..
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
True to a point, I have only 3 amps/11 channels in my 7.1.4 HT system, but I think I have too many preamps/power amps/integrated amp for my two channel systems, ended up with some sitting idling, two actually on the floor not even hooked up. They all sound great, if used..
You listing your amps on Craigslist or some other listings?

You have more channels in your system than I do. Mine is 5.1.4, so my MX-A5000 11CH amp has 2 unused channels.

The MX-A5000/5200 11CH amp would fit your 11Ch-system just fine. :D
 
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