Made a pretty stupid mistake in the home theatre setup

[TheRealOC]

Hi everyone,

Last month, I posted about setting up a dedicated home theatre in the living room of an old Irish stone cottage ("Please critique my setup!")

The room is approximately
- 3.95 metres (just under 13 feet) wide and,
- 3.8 metres long (12.5 feet), and,
- 2.45 metres (8 feet) high.

and in the end, I pre-wired for a 7.4.4 setup. Then I made a pretty stupid mistake.


I ran all the individual speaker cables back to a small room adjoining the home theatre room, in which the networking cabinet is going to live, and that will house the AVR. However, I totally forgot to run a long HDMI output from the networking room to the back of the TV in the home theatre room, and now the walls are closed up. (And on top of that, I got quoted €650 for a suitable HDMI cable, so that's going to have to go on the back burner)

So I'm now trying to figure out a way to transmit a HDMI signal (about 20 metres) over the other cables that I have run.

Fortunately, I did run five CAT6A cables (the blue lines), a CAT8 cable and an OM3 fiber optic cable from the rack room to the back of the TV, so I have the option to send a converted HDMI signal, A/V distribution style, over either the fiber or one of the CAT cables. So the chain would be:

Sources Devices (Blue ray player, PS5, sky box) > AVR > HDMI output from AVR > A device (near the AVR) to convert the HDMI signal to a format that can be transmitted over ethernet or fiber optic cabling > Either ethernet or fiber cable run > A device (near the TV) that converts the Ethernet or fiber optic signal back into an HDMI signal > the HDMI input on the TV


Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with specific HDMI-to-Ethernet or HDMI-to-fiber converters that would work well with an AVR. Example of what I'm talking about would be:
* the J-Tech Digital HDMI Extender
* 4K HDMI 2.0 Fiber Extender,
* Muxlab HDMI over IP H.264/H.265 PoE Extender
* OREI HDBaseT HDMI Extender Over Cat5e/Cat6

Does anyone have experience with these types of setups? Can you recommend any specific HDMI to Ethernet or HDMI to fiber optic converters that would work well with an AVR?

*********************

Also, writing this post has gotten me thinking about control of the source devices. I'm not really too concerned about the AVR itself (Both my old Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 and the AVR I intend someday to replace it with - the Anthem MRX-1140 - can be controlled over the network), but I'm not sure what I should do about source devices.

Totally open to correction, but I think that if I plug source devices (like a satellite Sky box, or a PlayStation 5, or a blue ray player) into the AVR in the separate room then I might not be able to reliably control them from the adjoining home theatre room via Bluetooth (the wall between the two rooms is stuffed with heavy RWA45 soundproof insulation and sandwiched with multiple layers of soundproof membrane and plasterboard). But on the other hand, if I actually put the source devices in the home theatre room, connecting directly to the TV, then I would be bypassing the surround sound setup, which defeats the purpose.

Long term, I'd like to put in a system like Control4 or Savant, but I don't really have budget for that currently. Are there any good remote control extending solutions that I could use to control the source devices from the home theatre room? Would I have to drill holes in the wall to make that happen? (I've been looking at solutions like the Logitech Harmony Hub, the BAFX Products IR Remote Control Extender, the Sewell Direct BlastIR Wireless Pro IR Repeater, and the Inteset Wireless IR Repeater, but I've zero experience with devices like this, and I'm not even sure that they would be suitable for this use case?) Grateful for any opinions and advice.

Many thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone,

Last month, I posted about setting up a dedicated home theatre in the living room of an old Irish stone cottage ("Please critique my setup!")

The room is approximately
- 3.95 metres (just under 13 feet) wide and,
- 3.8 metres long (12.5 feet), and,
- 2.45 metres (8 feet) high.

and in the end, I pre-wired for a 7.4.4 setup. Then I made a pretty stupid mistake.


I ran all the individual speaker cables back to a small room adjoining the home theatre room, in which the networking cabinet is going to live, and that will house the AVR. However, I totally forgot to run a long HDMI output from the networking room to the back of the TV in the home theatre room, and now the walls are closed up. (And on top of that, I got quoted €650 for a suitable HDMI cable, so that's going to have to go on the back burner)

So I'm now trying to figure out a way to transmit a HDMI signal (about 20 metres) over the other cables that I have run.

View attachment 61264View attachment 61265

Fortunately, I did run five CAT6A cables (the blue lines), a CAT8 cable and an OM3 fiber optic cable from the rack room to the back of the TV, so I have the option to send a converted HDMI signal, A/V distribution style, over either the fiber or one of the CAT cables. So the chain would be:

Sources Devices (Blue ray player, PS5, sky box) > AVR > HDMI output from AVR > A device (near the AVR) to convert the HDMI signal to a format that can be transmitted over ethernet or fiber optic cabling > Either ethernet or fiber cable run > A device (near the TV) that converts the Ethernet or fiber optic signal back into an HDMI signal > the HDMI input on the TV


Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with specific HDMI-to-Ethernet or HDMI-to-fiber converters that would work well with an AVR. Example of what I'm talking about would be:
* the J-Tech Digital HDMI Extender
* 4K HDMI 2.0 Fiber Extender,
* Muxlab HDMI over IP H.264/H.265 PoE Extender
* OREI HDBaseT HDMI Extender Over Cat5e/Cat6

Does anyone have experience with these types of setups? Can you recommend any specific HDMI to Ethernet or HDMI to fiber optic converters that would work well with an AVR?

*********************

Also, writing this post has gotten me thinking about control of the source devices. I'm not really too concerned about the AVR itself (Both my old Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 and the AVR I intend someday to replace it with - the Anthem MRX-1140 - can be controlled over the network), but I'm not sure what I should do about source devices.

Totally open to correction, but I think that if I plug source devices (like a satellite Sky box, or a PlayStation 5, or a blue ray player) into the AVR in the separate room then I might not be able to reliably control them from the adjoining home theatre room via Bluetooth (the wall between the two rooms is stuffed with heavy RWA45 soundproof insulation and sandwiched with multiple layers of soundproof membrane and plasterboard). But on the other hand, if I actually put the source devices in the home theatre room, connecting directly to the TV, then I would be bypassing the surround sound setup, which defeats the purpose.

Long term, I'd like to put in a system like Control4 or Savant, but I don't really have budget for that currently. Are there any good remote control extending solutions that I could use to control the source devices from the home theatre room? Would I have to drill holes in the wall to make that happen? (I've been looking at solutions like the Logitech Harmony Hub, the BAFX Products IR Remote Control Extender, the Sewell Direct BlastIR Wireless Pro IR Repeater, and the Inteset Wireless IR Repeater, but I've zero experience with devices like this, and I'm not even sure that they would be suitable for this use case?) Grateful for any opinions and advice.

Many thanks

OK, you do need to open up the walls. You absolutely need a hybrid HDMI cable in those walls. The mistake you made was not running conduit. You NEVER EVER run any AV cable in wall without it being in conduit. If you had conduit, this would be a 10 minute job. Your walls need conduit behind them.

Bite the bullet and open the walls. That will be the best and cheapest solution.

 

[TheRealOC]

OK, you do need to open up the walls. You absolutely need a hybrid HDMI cable in those walls. The mistake you made was not running conduit. You NEVER EVER run any AV cable in wall without it being in conduit. If you had conduit, this would be a 10 minute job. Your walls need conduit behind them.

Bite the bullet and open the walls. That will be the best and cheapest solution.

@TLS Guy I was afraid you’d say that

Ok, just out of interest, if we’re re-opening up the walls anyway, what would you recommend for a short-medium term solution for controlling the source devices from the next room? (I can’t see Control4/Savant happening in the next five years)

 

[Trebdp83]

What a shame, and I was on your side. Now, like my dog, you are dead to me.

 

[TheRealOC]

What a shame, and I was on your side. Now, like my dog, you are dead to me.

Why, because of Control4?

 

[Trebdp83]

As @TLS Guy mentioned, get a hybrid HDMI and stay away from converters. Make sure it supports HDMI 2.1 48Gbps bandwidth. Consider a new AVR that supports HDMI 2.1 bandwidth. A PS5 supports 32Gbps, XBOX Series X and S support 40Gbps. A new TV will support HDMI 2.1 with 40Gbps or 48Gbps depending on the model. Make sure any new AVR contains HDMI 2.1 40Gbps ports or be limited to 4K @60hz 18Gbps with no option for gaming in 4K @120Hz.

 

[TLS Guy]

As @TLS Guy mentioned, get a hybrid HDMI and stay away from converters. Make sure it supports HDMI 2.1 48Gbps bandwidth. Consider a new AVR that supports HDMI 2.1 bandwidth. A PS5 supports 32Gbps, XBOX Series X and S support 40Gbps. A new TV will support HDMI 2.1 with 40Gbps or 48Gbps depending on the model. Make sure any new AVR contains HDMI 2.1 40Gbps ports or be limited to 4K @60hz 18Gbps with no option for gaming in 4K @120Hz.

I have absolutely no idea to be honest. HDMI rules now, because of draconian DRM issues.

If it were me I would pick myself up and be bagging the torn down sheetrock. The sooner you start, the sooner you finish. And you must use conduit. I always have in both my theaters, since 2005. There have been many iterations of cables, including when you had to go from Cat5 to Cat6. HDMI specs change. So conduit is NOT optional for putting cables in walls or any inaccessible place. That includes speaker cables.

I know you feel bad about it, but you have to learn the lesson and gain in wisdom. The problem is you rushed ahead without a detailed plan.

Now step backwards, and plan everything down to the last detail for today and tomorrow's technology.

AV rooms contain a lot of complex technology, and it is an evolving technology.

If there is anything you are unsure about, then post here and get advice to do it right. We are here to help, but we are not magicians.

 

[Trebdp83]

The HDMI and HDCP specs are confusing and convoluted for sure. So, it is best to simply deal in terms of bandwidth, specifically, uncompressed bandwidth concerning any kind of gaming. Those who do not wish to game on PCs and consoles that support higher frame rates do not need to be concerned with anything more than 18Gbps ports for watching content at 24Hz or 60Hz. Beware those AVRs with 9 Gbps ports on the front and back. They will work but be limited in their output. Anyway, those wanting to game in 4K @120Hz need to make sure that all of the devices in the chain support the needed bandwidth. DSC is not available yet in most devices to compress signals when things get tight so that should not be relied on in any case. So, anybody wanting to connect a PC or console to their AVR needs to make sure that AVR has as many 40Gbps ports as are needed or a direct connection to a new TV will be necessary. This will prove impossible for some with wall mounted TVs that cannot accommodate any devices up front.

It is always advantages to get ahead of any problems and 48Gbps Ultra Certified cables aren't a bad idea for anybody and are absolutely necessary for those planning to game in 4K @120Hz or pass 8K @60Hz signals. Anybody looking at the Anthem MRX1140 needs to make sure they are looking at the MRX1140 8K and not just the MRX1140 or they will be limited to 4K @60Hz. I know many hate seeing 8K labels on anything but just realize that, if one is seeking 4K @120Hz capability, any new device advertising 8K capability will also support 4K @120Hz. Again, cables that are "Ultra Certified" will have you covered and support the full 48Gbps of the HDMI 2.1 spec and all of its features. Connecting those cables between different AVRs, consoles and TVs of varying capabilities while trying to achieve optimal performance from all of them is where the real fun, or stroke, happens. Of course, none of this means anything if one forgets to install conduit and cannot run a long HDMI cable anyway.

 

[Wardog555]

The other mistake you made was the atmos speaker locations.
They need to be moved back so you're in the middle of them.

How did you choose those locations in the first place?

 

[mono-bloc]

I think you've turned a simple installation into a miss-match of complex wiring that frankly is total unnecessary. Half the wiring you have installed will never be used and the other half is simply wrong. ONE HDMI cable would have covered, most of your requirements,, and the fact that your audio gear is in another room, simple add's to the confusion. Now your wondering how your going to control it. The drywalls are up so it's a bit late wondering how everything's going to work.. As I said before your going to get out of your chair and walk next door to turn up the volume. Good luck with that idea.Have you worked out the cost of a Control 4 system. Or do you have the remotest idea of how to program it.

 

[MrBoat]

It's not that bad. Drywall is easy to get wire thru. I installed and finished drywall for 20 years. Find a reputable finisher and the repair will be invisible. Or pull the base trim and run it under the gap between the drywall and floor and put the trim back over it.

 

[mono-bloc]

Just another small question to add to the confusion. Have you labeled all those cables, so you will know what goes where, Have you also installed a power point in the ceiling together with another HDMI cable in the event you will one day consider a projector ?? And is there a Coax cable from the TV aerial presumably on the roof, to the TV or control room, ??

 

[TheRealOC]

Just another small question to add to the confusion. Have you labeled all those cables, so you will know what goes where, Have you also installed a power point in the ceiling together with another HDMI cable in the event you will one day consider a projector ?? And is there a Coax cable from the TV aerial presumably on the roof, to the TV or control room, ??

Yes to all the above, thankfully

 

[TheRealOC]

Update - thankfully I was wrong about the wall between the comms room and the home theatre room being “closed up”; there was only a single sheet of OSB, so the conduit run is back on

All the cabling is done (with the exception of two CAT8 cables which are arriving tomorrow - so we’ll be ready for 8k video distribution ) so I thought a good old fashioned room update/tour video thingy might be in order. I fully admit this house is crazy but I like it a lot.

 

[mono-bloc]

Most of us end up with a "Rats Nest" It looks like your starting with one.

 

[TheRealOC]

The walls will be closed up in 3-4 days…

Then it’ll be clean and organized

I think the biggest regret I have is that I didn’t think through where we might potentially put Control4 touchpads in the walls, but I can’t wrap my head around laying any more cable at this point

 

[Kingnoob]

Most of us end up with a "Rats Nest" It looks like your starting with one.

The legendary rats nest !

 

[Eppie]

The walls will be closed up in 3-4 days…

Then it’ll be clean and organized

I think the biggest regret I have is that I didn’t think through where we might potentially put Control4 touchpads in the walls, but I can’t wrap my head around laying any more cable at this point

I haven't researched this in a long time but I read about universal RF remotes that have a base station which includes multiple IR transmitters. You place an IR transmitter in front of each IR receiver in your component rack and the RF remote works any where. Some online searches should turn up something unless a member perhaps can recommend a device.