Looking to build Vinyl setup to play my 80's hairband music,

[lovinthehd]

Yes, one of my turntables has the original hard cover user manual. They are both series 2 production and were built between 1957 and 1965. I bought one in 1972, and the other in 1973. According to the user manual the rumble was below what they could measure then. Wow is less than 0.2%. Flutter which is a good surrogate for rumble is less than 0.05%. I paid $50 CDN for the first and I'm not sure I paid anything for the second!

How things have changed! In addition to detailed instructions and mounting template, the manual contains detailed engineering drawings of the entire turntable, including engineering drawings of every single part with part number!

Now you know why I get so hot about the state of things now. Small wonder there is less interest in the hobby now than back then.

Just never got to use a 301, my experience with other Garrard models I did use at times (including my Dad's in the early 60s) was less than stellar....you definitely got a good deal on those

 

[scottyb70]

It’s a Shure M91ED supposedly it’s brand new.Sould the screws be centered in the slots?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd think that cartridge has relatively decent output but yes it does look wrong on the screws.....but Shure went out of the cartridge business a coupla years ago so I suppose NOS is possible....who set up the cartridge?

 

[Mikado463]

View attachment 48037View attachment 48038

It’s a Shure M91ED supposedly it’s brand new.Sould the screws be centered in the slots?

you need a cartridge protractor to align properly, one can be down loaded free @ vinyl engine.com

 

[TLS Guy]

View attachment 48037View attachment 48038

It’s a Shure M91ED supposedly it’s brand new.Sould the screws be centered in the slots?

Leave the screws alone for now. You need an alignment protractor to set those screws. You will need one of those, and you can download one from vinyl engine, but we will get to that later.

The Shure 91 ED is a great cartridge. I know the Shure line well. They are great cartridges. It can't be brand new as they have not been made for quite a few years. I highly doubt the cartridge is the problem.

We need to know what input you are using. You need a phono input. NOT line.

If those units you have, have good phono inputs, you should have plenty of volume. Often times receivers have lousy phono inputs. If you are using the phono input then either there is something wrong with the turntable wiring or the phono inputs are poor, and you might need a phono preamp to connect to a line input. That Shure cartridge was not top of the Shure range, but a good way up. They did not have the highest output like the cheaper ones, but any decent phono input should be OK with them. To get more output from cartridges you have to sacrifice compliance. That Shure is a high compliance cartridge, so you might need a better phono input.

You are now finding out that owning a turntable requires a special skill set. They are not plug play and forget. That is why you were advised to think twice if you have not used vinyl and turntables before.

 

[lovinthehd]

It may not be equivalent level-wise to digital sources even for a cartridge with good output (this one is spec'd at 5 mV which is decent). Like was said about a protractor. You should also download the manual for your turntable at vinylengine.com and read the instructions for cartridge setup..... https://www.vinylengine.com/library/marantz/6300.shtml

 

[Eppie]

View attachment 48037View attachment 48038

It’s a Shure M91ED supposedly it’s brand new. Should the screws be centered in the slots?

I found the manual here.
The stylus might be new if a replacement stylus was purchased. The cartridge itself is vintage. It outputs 5mV with the yellow stylus and 6.2mV with the dark green stylus.

The people in the forum below seem to like it a lot, especially for classic rock:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/shure-m91ed-w-hi-track-vs-newer-cartridges-like-ortofon-red-etc.863064/
The cartridge needs to be parallel to the record grove when on the platter, so if the headshell is parallel to the record grooves then the mounting screws should be close to being centered in the slots. The exact positioning of the cartridge is usually done with an overhang gauge to set the distance from the rear of the tone arm and a protractor to set the angle to the groves (or a Stevenson alignment gauge to set it up). Those screws look way off unless the cartridge is not symetrical.

Next is the tracking force. From the thread I linked above and the manual, this cartridge uses a fairly light setting of only 1.25 grams, 1.5 grams max. Balance the stylus just outside the platter so that it hovers at platter level and then 0 the counterweight indicator while holding the weight. Check the balance again and the 0 indicator. Then rotate the counterweight until it reads 1.25. Might need to check with @TLS Guy on setting the anti-skating. That little adjustable weight below the counterweight is for the anti-skating force and should be set to the same value as the counterweight. I'm not entirely sure, but I think each groove on the shaft represents one gram, so the weight should be 1/4 past the first grove. If it's close to that I would leave it as is. Best to check the turntable manual before messing with the anti-skating.

And just to be sure, did you use the phono input on the AVR in both cases?

 

[TLS Guy]

View attachment 48037View attachment 48038

It’s a Shure M91ED supposedly it’s brand new.Sould the screws be centered in the slots?

As I look at that picture now. The cartridge is installed incorrectly, and will damage your records. It is not your low output problem though. The optimal cartridge offset angle is set by moving the cartridge to and fro under the guidance of the alignment protractor. You NEVER rotate the cartridge, and that one is rotated. The screws should be dead opposite each other, but in the exactly correct position. This is a crucial adjustment. whoever put that cartridge in, is an idiot.

 

[Mikado463]

scotty, if you're still with us and hopefully not scared off, first things first...........

verify input cables from TT are in fact connected properly to 'phono input' on the rear of your receiver

before attempting to play another record be sure to get you cartridge properly aligned so as to not do further damage to your Lp's and records

report back ......

 

[scottyb70]

I was using the tape input on the Yamaha becauase the phono button won't switch and on the denon I was using phono. I did take off the cartridge and am now trying to figure how to realign it and which cartridge protractor to use and how to use it.

I might go get my Dads kenwood vintage receiver and see if that works.

 

[Eppie]

I was using the tape input on the Yamaha becauase the phono button won't switch and on the denon I was using phono. I did take off the cartridge and am now trying to figure how to realign it and which cartridge protractor to use and how to use it.

I might go get my Dads kenwood vintage receiver and see if that works.

Well, that explains the low output on the Yamaha. Not nearly a strong enough signal on the tape input. You need a separate phono pre-amp to connect it to a tape or aux input.

Lots of videos on Youtube for cartridge alignment once you get the gauges downloaded.

 

[Pogre]

Vinyl is so much fun... lol.

 

[scottyb70]

trying to print the stevenson protractor and the dam scale is off
-

 

[lovinthehd]

trying to print the stevenson protractor and the dam scale is off
-

Did you get the 45 adapter with it? If so the manual has some setup instructions for stylus overhang adjustment based on it....

 

[scottyb70]

yes i have the adapter reading manual now

here it is so far put print scale is off

 

[TLS Guy]

I was using the tape input on the Yamaha becauase the phono button won't switch and on the denon I was using phono. I did take off the cartridge and am now trying to figure how to realign it and which cartridge protractor to use and how to use it.

I might go get my Dads kenwood vintage receiver and see if that works.

The phono input of that Denon should have worked. It is possible the cartridge is dud I suppose, but having both channels fail is most unlikely.

 

[TLS Guy]

yes i have the adapter reading manual now

here it is so far put print scale is off

That looks pretty good to me in those pictures. Now we have to track down your output problem.

 

[scottyb70]

I am going to have to get that old kenwood to hook up to. I will get it today or tomorrow and let you guys know. I am more than likely going to get those BMR monitors or something from salk. I was able to return the Marantz 2235B but my friend told me the 35w would be more than enough for the Polks l200 or BMR, so was he right? I am looking at a high power vintage marantz amp or I might go with that Outlaw Audio Amp recommend by shady J.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am going to have to get that old kenwood to hook up to. I will get it today or tomorrow and let you guys know. I am more than likely going to get those BMR monitors or something from salk. I was able to return the Marantz 2235B but my friend told me the 35w would be more than enough for the Polks l200 or BMR, so was he right? I am looking at a high power vintage marantz amp or I might go with that Outlaw Audio Amp recommend by shady J.

Amp power depends on how loud you like it and at what distance...and for what impedance speakers. Personally I usually consider 100wpc (at 8 ohm) a starting point, and use amps from there up to 450wpc. Might play with this for a bit http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[lovinthehd]

Did output change at all after setting up the cartridge better?