Looking for feedback/advice on a preamp/processor/receiver choice.

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
After I saw the Benchmark price, my "Snakey Sense" started to tingle. So I started looking at other options and found the MP ones. The MP ones have all the needed quality features such that I doubt that adding anything else would help much, if at all. Unfortunately MP is out of stock right now & Amazon is double the price (which is still cheap compared to the boutique stuff). I'm refering to the 3' lengths which is what would want.

I ordered a couple of Neutrik male XLR ends which I will wire up as depicted in the document you referenced. If they turn out to do the trick I'll probably just order the pre-made MP cables. No sense in me spending the time to do all that soldering if it doesn't somehow get me better quality or save serious money.
With stock cable and connectors in hand, soldering time is negligible :) Then you can actually customize better than 3' length, if needed, too. :)
 
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
With stock cable and connectors in hand, soldering time is negligible :) Then you can actually customize better than 3' length, if needed, too. :)
For my own case I may have to disagree on that a little. I only very occasionally solder, and make cables even less often. So I'm a bit slow at it. Also, I have already cut my cable up into 3' lengths so there won't be custom lengths either way. Some day when I get around to rigging up some cable management on the back of the rack, I'll customize most if not all cables to be the needed length for their particular route through it all. That time is not in the very near future, so I'm going to just get things done for now. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
For my own case I may have to disagree on that a little. I only very occasionally solder, and make cables even less often. So I'm a bit slow at it. Also, I have already cut my cable up into 3' lengths so there won't be custom lengths either way. Some day when I get around to rigging up some cable management on the back of the rack, I'll customize most if not all cables to be the needed length for their particular route through it all. That time is not in the very near future, so I'm going to just get things done for now. :)
Whatever you're comfortable with, I just find if it's a simple cable easy enough to make my own.
 
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
Whatever you're comfortable with, I just find if it's a simple cable easy enough to make my own.
Absolutely. Do you want to make mine? I could kick you a 10 spot to cover the minimal effort involved. I would of course supply the parts. ;)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Absolutely. Do you want to make mine? I could kick you a 10 spot to cover the minimal effort involved. I would of course supply the parts. ;)
My labor charges are obscene, tho. :) Seriously, it's not that hard. Plenty of decent cable vendors out there....there's a brand that uses very good stock/connectors called World's Best Cables (and they play around with that in a humorous but not serious way), available on Amazon....
 
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
My labor charges are obscene, tho. :) Seriously, it's not that hard. Plenty of decent cable vendors out there....there's a brand that uses very good stock/connectors called World's Best Cables (and they play around with that in a humorous but not serious way), available on Amazon....
Yep I've run across them. Bought some Amphenol RCA ends from them in fact.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yep I've run across them. Bought some Amphenol RCA ends from them in fact.
I was surprised to see how nice the MPs looked when they showed up. Better quality than the Blue Jean ones I paid much more for.
 
Last edited:
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
Woot. UPS just showed up. with my AVR-X3700H. Even though I'm dying to know the serial number, the unit is quite cold and I need to let it acclimate before opening. I'm hoping I got a unit with the original AKM DACs in it. There is a label on the box which has a few numbers on it. If one of those numbers is the serial number I may have gotten lucky, because I don't see a "7" ANYWHERE! Anyone familiar with box labels on the AVR-X3700H?
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Absolutely. Do you want to make mine? I could kick you a 10 spot to cover the minimal effort involved. I would of course supply the parts. ;)
He forgets to mention that he literally has all the time in the world to make cables, being retired and all. ;) \

Having said that, I suck at soldering (actually, I have a garbage iron) so I buy cables when I can.

Monoprice has made me pretty happy with their RCA quality. Luckily, I don't have very many, but I do have a ground loop on my front sub amp I need to figure out. It isn't the cable either, but it's probably my projector.

 
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
Drats. My new AVR-X3700H does have a SN with 5th LSD as 7. I guess I'll return it and try to get an older model or just forget the whole thing and keep using my Yami until such time as better DACs are once again in use etc.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Drats. My new AVR-X3700H does have a SN with 5th LSD as 7. I guess I'll return it and try to get an older model or just forget the whole thing and keep using my Yami until such time as better DACs are once again in use etc.
Even with the DAC which has better specs, you wouldn't be able to hear a difference or improvement in SQ. What's the point?

My X3700H has a serial number ending by 70XXX which means it's in the last batch of this 2020 series. It most likely doesn't have the better DAC, I don't care. But the HDMI 2.1 input is supposed to work on it though.
 
Last edited:
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
Even with the DAC which has better specs, you wouldn't be able to hear a difference or improvement in SQ. What's the point?

My X3700H has a serial number ending by 70XXX which means it's in the last batch of this 2020 series. It most likely doesn't have the better DAC, I don't care. But the HDMI 2.1 input is supposed to work on it though.
How do you know I wouldn't be able to hear a difference; maybe/maybe not? But, I would know there is a difference, which for me can sometimes be enough cause me to always wonder, and thus always not feel quite completely satisfied. :cool:

Besides, I'm concerned about about the pre-amp output levels. My current rig, besides not supporting 4K video, is weak on its pre-amp outs. The AKM DACs in the AVR-X3600H and pre May 2021 AVR-X3700H have been tested out be great performers in this aspect as well. The TI chips that were switched to I don't know. I do know that my current rig, a Yamaha RX-A810, uses TI DACs and doesn't do so great.

The problem with the HDMI 2.1 bug, as I understand it, only applies to some VRR signals. Specifically XBOX-X and NVidia G-Syync. Sony PS5 VRR is reported not to be hindered. I'm not currently running any game console or PC into my AVR. Also, I should be able to get a box from Sound United which fixes the issue should it arise.

Yes, the 2.1 bug is fixed in your 3700. Also, you have an 8K capability on your output and 1 8K capable input. The 3600 is limited to 4K period. But I don't care as I have no 8K capability on anything, and don't plan to be playing in the 8K playground for quite some time. Hell, I JUST got 4K!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
How do you know I wouldn't be able to hear a difference; maybe/maybe not? But, I would know there is a difference, which for me can sometimes be enough cause me to always wonder, and thus always not feel quite completely satisfied. :cool:

Besides, I'm concerned about about the pre-amp output levels. My current rig, besides not supporting 4K video, is weak on its pre-amp outs. The AKM DACs in the AVR-X3600H and pre May 2021 AVR-X3700H have been tested out be great performers in this aspect as well. The TI chips that were switched to I don't know. I do know that my current rig, a Yamaha RX-A810, uses TI DACs and doesn't do so great.

The problem with the HDMI 2.1 bug, as I understand it, only applies to some VRR signals. Specifically XBOX-X and NVidia G-Syync. Sony PS5 VRR is reported not to be hindered. I'm not currently running any game console or PC into my AVR. Also, I should be able to get a box from Sound United which fixes the issue should it arise.

Yes, the 2.1 bug is fixed in your 3700. Also, you have an 8K capability on your output and 1 8K capable input. The 3600 is limited to 4K period. But I don't care as I have no 8K capability on anything, and don't plan to be playing in the 8K playground for quite some time. Hell, I JUST got 4K!
The talks of the TI chip is just a rumor, even those Denon tech support don't know better at the moment. They likely told someone about the 2 TI chips in it that are for zone2 and 3. Denon and Marantz AVRs always use TI's PCM5100 for zone2/3.

Another Denon rep just told an ASR member the avr-x4700h is still using the AK4458, so all we have now are rumors and conflicting stories.

Someone needs to contact Denon in Japan directly to get an official response. Until then it is anyone's guess. My gues is that it will be an ESS chip. Whatever it is, it won't be the TI PCM5102 that a few people have claimed. The rumored TI (the PCM5102) is a stereo 2 channel dac chip. Denon has only ever used stereo dac ics in their flagship models such as the avr-x8500h and A110 or the Marantz AV8805. Even the SR8015 doesn't get the 2 ch dac chips, too much work/cost, hard to justify using them in AVRs except the real flagships.

Another thing, the output voltage limit is dependent on the volume control IC, not the DAC IC. So you won't have to worry about not getting enough voltage regardless of the DAC IC in your x3700h. The volume control chip is still the NJU72343 that can output higher than 4 Vrms.

Relax and enjoy, don't worry about the dac!
 
Last edited:
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
How do you know I wouldn't be able to hear a difference; maybe/maybe not? But, I would know there is a difference, which for me can sometimes be enough cause me to always wonder, and thus always not feel quite completely satisfied. :cool:
I wouldn't cancel an order just because you THINK you MIGHT hear a difference when the AVR revision may only have an HDMI chip that resolves the problem with the "older" AVRs. That shouldn't impact the audio section, but I do understand that you are concerned that they will change something else without noting it.

With how difficult they are to come by, I'd keep the current order and at least find out if it works for you and you like the way Denon does things. You may end up loving it sonically, but hating the menus or something else. You, like me, are the picky type that when something you don't like gets in your brain, it won't go away till you "fix" the problem.

I'd say go for it, but keep in mind the return policy if you decide to go another route. We do have quite a few trustworthy dealers on this site I'd buy from over just about anyone else if I can. They might be able to help source something for you rather than you playing a guessing game with online retailers.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I agree with Pantera. These minor little differences are all effectively inaudible anyway. I mean, I get wanting to chase down the best measurements possible, but at the end of the day it's not going to change the experience. That's why I suggested maybe switching gears in an earlier post. Put that money to use where you can realize some true gains.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
I agree with Pantera. These minor little differences are all effectively inaudible anyway. I mean, I get wanting to chase down the best measurements possible, but at the end of the day it's not going to change the experience. That's why I suggested maybe switching gears in an earlier post. Put that money to use where you can realize some true gains.
To be fair, my next upgrade for my office setup will be a new AVR for the same reasons. I want al the fancy HDMI goodness that you get with 2.1 and a compatible setup. For me, that means a new AVR and TV. Not a cheap investment for me, especially when everything I have works.

BUT, new speakers would 100% make my room sound better than a new AVR.

So would an extra sub now that I think about it. Hmm. Might have to start a thread.
 
Z

Zero Snake Oil

Junior Audioholic
Okay so there is a ton of info swirrling around about this on the interwebs. Some say that they have reasonably reliable info from sources within Denon that the TI DACs are used. Then we have PENG who says that couldn't be because he feels the redesign effort to use them is too much trouble for Denon. I respect your perspective PENG, but given the modular nature of the products composition I can't imagine it being all that difficult for the likes of Denon to re-engineer a new DAC board. Also, haven't you yourself actually stated that Denon/Sound United not revealing exactly what they have switched to, is a sign that it's not going to be good news? I swear I saw that on another forum.

Everyone seems to have a rumor or opinion on this topic. Unfortunately we don't have any new independent measurements nor physical verification of chips used. It is officially an unknown. Further more, there is always the unknown unknowns when it comes to changes like this.

I've been getting so much input from various sources on this topic, that I feel like Stretch Armstrong. To those of you too young get the reference, I refer you to Google. Anyway I'm getting a little worn down. I don't mind the efforts at all if it makes clear progress, but I think due to the lack of testing, true progress beyond a certain point just cannot be made. Therefore, I have decided to cancel my X3600H order (it had not been shipped), and stick with the X3700H I have sitting in its box waiting to be installed. PENG, your re-assurance about the pre-out drive levels not being affected by the DAC change has helped me to just pick the damn X3700H and put it to bed.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top