Looking for a new review baseline speaker system, and something to rock the house.

[Marshall_Guthrie]

The Request:

I’m looking for model suggestions and first hand experiences as I sell my beloved JBL S310ii and select 3 bookshelves for my new LCR reference speakers in a large, open room. Music performance is my top priority as that’s where the vast majority of my critical listening is.


Things that matter to me:

Price: $500/speaker (current total $1500). I’ve got a long upgrade list, so I can’t blow the budget on one purchase. These will be the best speakers I’ve ever owned, but they don’t need to be the “exit system”. I’m willing to increase (maybe $2000), but it would need to be for real bang-for-the-buck, not incremental improvement.

Sound: I would like clean and accurate, even at loud volumes (don’t we all). I like a forward high-end, probably due to my time with my JBLs, but easily got used to the more linear SVS Ultras. I need even dispersion (linear off-axis), not only for the acoustic benefits espoused by Floyd Toole et al., but because I’m often hosting listening parties with many seated out of the sweet spot.

Support: Having replaced a tweeter and crossover in the JBLs, I’d like to have reasonable access to new replacement parts down the road.

Form factor: Bookshelf/monitor. I want to go with 3 identical front channels and don’t have an acoustically transparent screen. That being said…


Things that don’t matter to me:

Size: My last set of “bookshelves” were the JBL S38ii at 18x12x13”. I’m not afraid of big speakers, in fact, larger may be better from an engineering standpoint. I have 19” of height clearance below my screen on top of my rack.

Looks: I dig sexy speakers, but I’m lucky that my SO will cut me some slack in the aesthetics department. I probably wouldn’t rock a set covered in carpet, but I don’t need real wood veneer either.

Sensitivity: I currently have an Onkyo TX-SR706 rated at 100w into 2 channels, so I’m good for the time being with low-sensitivity speakers. On top of that, I have an AVR upgrade on the list, and wouldn’t be opposed to a nice outboard amp from Emotiva at some point.

Low-end extension: Linear to 60-70hz is fine. I’ll be crossing over to one, perhaps two, SVS subs at 80hz, so any response lower than that is partially wasted.


The Candidates so far (links go to product pages):

• SVS Ultra Bookshelves: One of the few on the list that I’ve heard, and my benchmark. A great looking and sounding speaker and something I’d be happy with, but I’ve got to explore my options.
• Ascend Sierra-1: One of my top picks based on the internet-buzz around these, and they aren’t shy of measurements. Are the NRT Tweeters worth the extra $300/pair?
• Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf: Highly regarded when they were released, but perhaps the luster has worn off a bit as some serious competition has been brought to market? Shameful that I haven’t heard them as they’re only 1.5 hours up the road, I loved the 4T, and the price is very right at $350 each (will they hold up with others at double the price?)
• Philharmonic Philharmonitor: A good pedigree and lots of buzz, but still the new kid on the block. Based on the manufacturer's measurements, the ribbon tweeter appears to hold off-axis response very well.
• Revel M105/M106: I couldn’t find a pair of JBL’s suitable to throw into the mix (I’m open to suggestions), so my HK pick has to come from Revel. A well-regarded brand.
• PSB Imagine B: I’d love a good deal on the Synchrony series, but the Imagine fits the budget. PSB is pretty universally loved, and I heard an older pair (Images?) from mid 2000 that sounded pretty good.
• Golden Ear Aon 2: Interesting design and lots of buzz around the low distortion of the tweeter. More extension than I need and I’m a little worried that more engineering was put into low-end extension than mid/high reproduction. Still, good reviews.
• Paradigm Studio 10: The Canadians and their anechoic chambers sure make good speakers, and the face looks like it was designed by Ironman. Rumor has it, there’s a place about 30 minutes away where I can listen to these.

I know, I know...I need to just bite the bullet and whittle this list down to 3-4 that I could realistically listen to, but it’s hard not to consider all the options. Let me know if I’m missing something.

If you’ve read this far, you’re really dedicated. Thanks. Let me know your thoughts as I look to make a major, to me, purchase.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

...and, as I spend my late night at work researching speakers, I find another wrench to throw in the works: the Ascend Sierra-2? Ribbon tweeter and a November ship date. I think Audioholics should have the first review.

 

[shadyJ]

For music listening that would rock the house, I wouldn't get any of those. I would just get a pair of high sensitivity speakers, I would probably go with a pair of Pi Threes. With a compression tweeter and 12" woofer, those will rock without question, the limit will be how much your ears can handle. And the measurements for it are very good, the horizontal off axis is particularly good. Its impedance profile and 95 dB sensitivity mean your Onkyo receiver will be more than enough to blaze those to crazy volumes, and compressed peaks will not be a concern, its dynamic range will be many times that of any of the other speakers you listed. The Pi Threes are using widely available third party parts so if Pi ever closes shop, you are covered, so no worries about parts support. The only problem is accommodating the size of them, that and finding subs that can keep up with those beasts. Yeah they are expensive, but just think, when you die YOU CAN BE BURIED IN THEM! Also, if you know a good cabinet builder or are adept at woodwork yourself, you can save a ton of money by going for the kit form of them.

Another speaker with high dynamic range and impeccable measurements is the Klipsch KL-650 THX speakers. It would take some haggling to get those down to under $2k, but maybe not impossible.

Another speaker that looks killer in both performance and aesthetics is the Emotiva Stealth 8s. They can touch 115 dB at one meter, so they are not output shy. They are self-powered, so they won't tax your receiver at all which will help it last longer. The measurements for them, as with the Klipsch and Pi speakers, are terrific. Sometimes Emotiva puts them on sale where you could get a set of 3 for a substantial discount.

Along those lines, check out some Adam A7Xs, those sound fantastic. Head on down to your local pro-audio shop to see if they have any on demo. I think you could work them down to a set of three for $2k without too much trouble. I don't know of any available measurements for them, but they really do sound wonderful, you seriously ought to give them a chance.

 

[fuzz092888]

All the choices look well thought out, but I'll throw my thoughts out there for you to take as you will

I don't have any direct experience with the Philharmonitors, but as a Phil 3 owner I would expect them to sound excellent. Even though the company is new, Dennis has been doing crossover work for quite some time and he's darn good at it. I highly doubt you'd be anything but happy with them (but I guess the same could be said about most of your choices).

I'll also throw out a suggestion of the Salk Song surrounds with a Salk SongCenter. The cabinet work is truly top notch and they sound great to boot.

There's also the Source Technology 1.6WC with perhaps the Source Tech CC-3WC.

If you're willing to do a little leg work and find a good wood worker who could put together a cabinet for you, there are a ton of kits that could definitely maximize your bang for buck. For instance, I built a pair of Jeff Bagby's Mandolins (~$370/kit) for a total of ~$500 after building materials that perform well above that price. Going this route isn't as terrible as you might think, and a query on the PE techtalk forum could find you someone pretty quickly and painlessly. This is kind of a long shot suggestion, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

If that last one piqued your interest at all, it may put Dennis' ER18's and the ER15 center on the table, which are definitely tremendous speakers.

Good luck

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I was probably too vague when I said "Rock the House". I mean, rock the house for a guy in his mid 30s. Accuracy is a bigger priority than max volume.

I will definitely take at look at the THX Klipsch, but I'm concerned about the off-axis response of the horns. The JBL Studio 5 was stricken from my list for this reason (and that they were difficult to find in the US, or get a reliable review on).

The Adams and Emotivas, along with other Studio Monitor style powered speakers were all considered, but are probably better suited for nearfield. Love my Behringer Truth Monitors for the price though in my studio.

Thanks.

For music listening that would rock the house, I wouldn't get any of those. I would just get a pair of high sensitivity speakers...

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Looking for 3 identical speakers, but Ill check out the Salk Songs and Source Tech. Probably not going to go DIY, I'm at a place in my life where I don't have time for another hobby and just want stuff to work. That's one of the many reasons the SVS stay at the top of my list: that great customer support.

Thanks.

All the choices look well thought out, but I'll throw my thoughts out there for you to take as you will

I don't have any direct experience with the Philharmonitors, but as a Phil 3 owner I would expect them to sound excellent. Even though the company is new, Dennis has been doing crossover work for quite some time and he's darn good at it. I highly doubt you'd be anything but happy with them (but I guess the same could be said about most of your choices).

I'll also throw out a suggestion of the Salk Song surrounds with a Salk SongCenter. The cabinet work is truly top notch and they sound great to boot.

There's also the Source Technology 1.6WC with perhaps the Source Tech CC-3WC.

If you're willing to do a little leg work and find a good wood worker who could put together a cabinet for you, there are a ton of kits that could definitely maximize your bang for buck. For instance, I built a pair of Jeff Bagby's Mandolins (~$370/kit) for a total of ~$500 after building materials that perform well above that price. Going this route isn't as terrible as you might think, and a query on the PE techtalk forum could find you someone pretty quickly and painlessly. This is kind of a long shot suggestion, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

If that last one piqued your interest at all, it may put Dennis' ER18's and the ER15 center on the table, which are definitely tremendous speakers.

Good luck

 

[fuzz092888]

Looking for 3 identical speakers, but Ill check out the Salk Songs and Source Tech. Probably not going to go DIY, I'm at a place in my life where I don't have time for another hobby and just want stuff to work. That's one of the many reasons the SVS stay at the top of my list: that great customer support.

Thanks.

I'm not sure if you misread, or I didn't word it well, but I wasn't suggesting you DIY. I believe I said find someone to build it for you, which is also why I suggested PE Techtalk. There are plenty of guys over there who love to wood work and do great jobs, or you can locate someone locally.

Salk and Philharmonic also have tremendous customer support FWIW.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Sorry, I read it as I'd still be selecting parts, wiring, assembling, troubleshooting. I guess I'm still on the side of going with a production unit, even if the bang for the buck factor is lower, as it's more of a known quality. That's not meant as an insult to the builder crowd who I'm sure makes amazing products. It's just where I'm at in my lifestyle; I'd rather have the reasonable assurance of quality and customer support that comes with an established company for more $ out of pocket.

I'm not sure if you misread, or I didn't word it well, but I wasn't suggesting you DIY. I believe I said find someone to build it for you, which is also why I suggested PE Techtalk. There are plenty of guys over there who love to wood work and do great jobs, or you can locate someone locally.

Salk and Philharmonic also have tremendous customer support FWIW.

 

[ImcLoud]

I vote for the sierra 1's with no tweeter upgrade, I own 2 pairs one with and one without, and I prefer without...
If its a larger room, maybe give a look into the 340se's, I use them for my ht's front stage and prefer them over the sierras...

One more option for you to look at is the carnegie csc1's chttp://carnegieacoustics.net/image/products/big/csc1.jpg they are normally $700 each and you can get them through FR for $350 each, they can be turned on their side for fronts... I own the csb1's and I am very impressed. some points are stronger than the sierras... I am curious about the sierras twos as well as the phils and Im sure a pair of each are in my future but I have yet to listen to them..

 

[musiclear]

Take a look at Bamberg Audio's Series 2. You can see them here. Bamberg Audio :: Speakers for Life

They just got reviewed here Bamberg Series 2 TM Speaker Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

And here: The Vinyl Anachronist: Lone Star Audio Fest 2013 "he achieved holographic imaging and amazing soundstage depth. In this photo he's actually using a pair of his more modest $900 a pair monitors."

Personally, I've had Bamberg Audio design a system for me that I enjoyed so much I had them design my main system.

 

[Steve81]

I'd toss out the NHT Classic 3 as another solid contender. You can find measurements at Soundstage and Stereophile.

 

[3db]

My vote goes for the PSBs. As you cna tell from my signature, I'm very happy with PSB. They measure very well and as a result play equally well soft and loud, image very well, sound awesome.

 

[Tomorrow]

Hello from Lincoln City, neighbor.

For many years, I owned JBL S312's and still own S38's (which are just okay for surround duty). I currently run Philharmonic 2's in our HT...WITH a JBL center which was optimized by Dennis Murphy (Philharmonic Audio). The Phil 2's replaced a pair of $6,000 Aerial Acoustic 7B's (with pleasure).

As soon as funds allow, the JBL is outta here for a Phil center. I've auditioned most of the speakers on your list. While they're all acceptable, I would run, not walk, to the keyboard and order a set of Philharmonitors from Dennis. Those measurements you see on his website are the real deal (unlike some of the others on your list) and accuracy of Murphy designed speakers is a benchmark. Off axis performance is as good as you're going to get in this price range...except perhaps the Salk offering proposed by Fuzz...also designed by Dennis.

In terms of your 30 year old ears and the loudness factor...how large is your room? Most of your possible selections would be capable of setting my ears to ringing in an average sized room.

Of course the caveat to all this is that everyone's ears may prefer different presentations (and mine are significantly older and more rock and roll tortured than yours).

Much good luck in your search. Anticipation is the fun part!

Adieu.

 

[fuzz092888]

I only wish the budget were high enough to get him one of Dennis' models with an open back mid. I wonder if Dennis would do a one off pair of Phil 1's and how much that would be? My guess is ~$2000-2500, but more than worth it. Between the open back mid and the ML-TL woofer (awesome bass extension and SQ), it would IMHO give everything on the list a serious run for their money. For music, they're hands down my choice.

Plus, I've run my Phil 3's stereo and didn't really miss the center at all. I only use the center for volume purposes in the rare instance when the Phils are hooked up to the HT rig. It appears the Phil center is on meniscus as a kit now as well.

Hello from Lincoln City, neighbor.

For many years, I owned JBL S312's and still own S38's (which are just okay for surround duty). I currently run Philharmonic 2's in our HT...WITH a JBL center which was optimized by Dennis Murphy (Philharmonic Audio). The Phil 2's replaced a pair of $6,000 Aerial Acoustic 7B's (with pleasure).

As soon as funds allow, the JBL is outta here for a Phil center. I've auditioned most of the speakers on your list. While they're all acceptable, I would run, not walk, to the keyboard and order a set of Philharmonitors from Dennis. Those measurements you see on his website are the real deal (unlike some of the others on your list) and accuracy of Murphy designed speakers is a benchmark. Off axis performance is as good as you're going to get in this price range...except perhaps the Salk offering proposed by Fuzz...also designed by Dennis.

In terms of your 30 year old ears and the loudness factor...how large is your room? Most of your possible selections would be capable of setting my ears to ringing in an average sized room.

Of course the caveat to all this is that everyone's ears may prefer different presentations (and mine are significantly older and more rock and roll tortured than yours).

Much good luck in your search. Anticipation is the fun part!

Adieu.

 

[Tomorrow]

I only wish the budget were high enough to get him one of Dennis' models with an open back mid. I wonder if Dennis would do a one off pair of Phil 1's and how much that would be? My guess is ~$2000-2500, but more than worth it. Between the open back mid and the ML-TL woofer (awesome bass extension and SQ), it would IMHO give everything on the list a serious run for their money. For music, they're hands down my choice.

Plus, I've run my Phil 3's stereo and didn't really miss the center at all. I only use the center for volume purposes in the rare instance when the Phils are hooked up to the HT rig. It appears the Phil center is on meniscus as a kit now as well.

I think the lack of the older, pre-built cabinets would be a cost issue. Perhaps Dennis will chime in with the fact he has secreted away a set of 1's for Ben to listen to.

 

[fuzz092888]

I think the lack of the older, pre-built cabinets would be a cost issue. Perhaps Dennis will chime in with the fact he has secreted away a set of 1's for Ben to listen to.

There has actually been a pair of Phil 1's in a custom cab, but I forget the price. I believe it was somewhere in the range I quoted. He may, who knows what secret stashes Dennis has ferreted away at his house

 

[Steve81]

I only wish the budget were high enough to get him one of Dennis' models with an open back mid. I wonder if Dennis would do a one off pair of Phil 1's and how much that would be?

I don't know about the Phil 1s, but IIRC, he has mentioned considering a less costly version of the Phil Slim Tower with the Fountek ribbon and probably a SB Acoustics woofer.

 

[fuzz092888]

I don't know about the Phil 1s, but IIRC, he has mentioned considering a less costly version of the Phil Slim Tower with the Fountek ribbon and probably a SB Acoustics woofer.

I wonder if that would be outside Marshall's timeline. That would take a total reworking of the crossover, TL, and possibly cabinet dimensions. Could be awhile before that sees the light. I hope Dennis does do it, since I think since losing the Chinese cab Phil 1/2's the lineup is missing that sweetspot priced floorstander in between the bookshelf and the flagship.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

You're right at a price point where you could almost get some nice towers + a good center. Have you considered the cost of stands you'll have to place bookshelves on? The fact they will be less than stable sitting on stands as well? The fact you might regret losing out on your bass extension?

So my recommendation might be to save up for another year and consider a tower + center among SVS, Salk (Songtowers + center), Ascend, Aperion.

If you did need to go ahead with bookshelves, the SVS bookshelf is very well reviewed. Also, I've not heard the Philharmonitor, but based Dennis's crossover work I'd order the Philharmonitor site unseen (unheard?). He can also rotate the center tweeter if you need to lay it flat. The porting options may affect your decision as well (SVS rear ported, Phil front ported).

 

[psbfan9]

Take a look at Bamberg Audio's Series 2. You can see them here. Bamberg Audio :: Speakers for Life

They just got reviewed here Bamberg Series 2 TM Speaker Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

And here: The Vinyl Anachronist: Lone Star Audio Fest 2013 "he achieved holographic imaging and amazing soundstage depth. In this photo he's actually using a pair of his more modest $900 a pair monitors."

Personally, I've had Bamberg Audio design a system for me that I enjoyed so much I had them design my main system.

+1. Phil Bamberg has helped Gene here at AH with some articles and I believe Gene is a fan of Phil's designs. Phil is easy to talk to and generous with his time.
Bamberg is definitely worth considering.