Looking at ML's, would my Receiver work, or do I need a big amp?

[Seth=L]

My apoligies to all on this thread, I will say nothing further about the Behringer amplifiers untill I hear one with some good home speakers. I have heard them, but with PA type speakers.

Again, my apoligies

 

[captain_tinker]

WmAx,
Sorry for the confusion, I realized after I posted that I didn't really go into detail about the reasons why. He said kind of what Seth had said, about it being really good for PA speakers, but he also said he would love to use it for very big subwoofers. He mentioned something about an infinite baffle design. He also mentioned distortion, saying that while it would probably work just fine for the ML's, he would rather use something that has a bit less distortion. He said that for a subwoofer that may not make much of a difference, seeing that in his mind distortion at such low levels may not be very audible, or if it is, it probably won't sound too awful.

Now the guy at the guitar store was more concerned with the power requirements than the sound. I told him the speakers were 5 ohm, and he thought that was odd, since I guess most speakers are either 4 or 8, and I guess some are 16. But anyway, he also saw that the speakers took about 175 watts per channel and he said that it was probably a continuous load, and that spikes would take more. The math he was running showed that it may end up clipping which is not good for the speakers to begin with. :-( So anyway, at this point, I am going to keep looking for deals. I also need to save a bit more $$$ at this point too to get what I want. Owell.

-capT

 

[Seth=L]

Many speakers even if they aren't 8 ohms nominally will claim they are. ML tests their speakers intensively and rate them the way they should be rated.

My dad's ML are powered by a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200 watts X 5 amplifier and they go much louder than necessary, encroaching ears bleeding point.

 

[WmAx]

WmAx,
Sorry for the confusion, I realized after I posted that I didn't really go into detail about the reasons why. He said kind of what Seth had said, about it being really good for PA speakers, but he also said he would love to use it for very big subwoofers. He mentioned something about an infinite baffle design. He also mentioned distortion, saying that while it would probably work just fine for the ML's, he would rather use something that has a bit less distortion. He said that for a subwoofer that may not make much of a difference, seeing that in his mind distortion at such low levels may not be very audible, or if it is, it probably won't sound too awful.

His premise is incorrect about the Behringer A500. Ask him to post/reply here if he has an issue with my advice.

Now the guy at the guitar store was more concerned with the power requirements than the sound. I told him the speakers were 5 ohm, and he thought that was odd, since I guess most speakers are either 4 or 8, and I guess some are 16. But anyway, he also saw that the speakers took about 175 watts per channel and he said that it was probably a continuous load, and that spikes would take more. The math he was running showed that it may end up clipping which is not good for the speakers to begin with. :-( So anyway, at this point, I am going to keep looking for deals. I also need to save a bit more $$$ at this point too to get what I want. Owell.

Sounds like this guy has a bit more sense.

However, the Behringer would produce around 200 watts continuous into 5 ohms, without clipping, per channel. So, do you think that is enough? Simple enough... what is the sensitivity of the ML? If it's around 87db/w/1m, then that is MORE than sufficient for even very dynamic classical pieces.

-Chris

 

[captain_tinker]

Sounds like this guy has a bit more sense.

However, the Behringer would produce around 200 watts continuous into 5 ohms, without clipping, per channel. So, do you think that is enough? Simple enough... what is the sensitivity of the ML? If it's around 87db/w/1m, then that is MORE than sufficient for even very dynamic classical pieces.

-Chris

WmAx,
You present a very convincing argument. Let me look really quick at the sensitivity... Here it is:

Sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter

Would that work? Heck, if this really can produce that power, then yeah, that would be plenty. Does that give it enough headroom if it consumes about 175 watts? That's only 25 watts extra power. Sorry if I sound like a noob, I sort of still am. I think that for the price, if that can really handle it, then maybe I will seriously look into it. At least for a few years until I can upgrade it again. I would feel much more comfortable using an amp instead of forcing my receiver to try and push them for very long.

Seth, out of curiosity, what ML speakers does your father own?

-capT

 

[Seth=L]

Not sure on the model. His are Electrostatics and they are very power hungry. I don't beleive the Mosiac speakers or any from that series are electrostats, if they were they require an internal power supply to charge the panel.

Here is a link to pictures of a similar model:

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/gallery/vantage

As you will see they have a powered connection, not for driving the speaker, just charging the electrostatic panel.

 

[captain_tinker]

Seth=L,
Tell your father he has some very nice looking speakers. Those are really quite impressive. And you are right, the Mosaic's are not true electrostats, they are the ATF, which if I understand correctly, the difference between that and the electrostats are that the ATF (advanced thin film) still has a magnetic component to it where the true electrostats do not have magnets. It still has similar properties where a thin film resonates back and forth, but the way it causes it to do it is different. Thus it is still magnetic, but produces a similar sound to the electrostats. It is quite an interesting sound actually. Not quite as nice as the true electrostats, but very good in it's own right.

-capT

 

[Seth=L]

Well the Mosiac's don't carry the large price tag. It sounds like they have some type of Magnetic planar driver.

Best of luck on whatever you decide to get, anymore questions just ask.

 

[Nick250]

WmAx,
You present a very convincing argument. Let me look really quick at the sensitivity... Here it is:

Sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter

Would that work? Heck, if this really can produce that power, then yeah, that would be plenty. Does that give it enough headroom if it consumes about 175 watts? That's only 25 watts extra power. Sorry if I sound like a noob, I sort of still am. I think that for the price, if that can really handle it, then maybe I will seriously look into it. At least for a few years until I can upgrade it again. I would feel much more comfortable using an amp instead of forcing my receiver to try and push them for very long.


-capT

Captain, you have lots good information on the Behringer A500 from WmAx. Really solid stuff with supporting evidence. Seth maybe a nice guy with the best of intentions, but he has given advice with no basis of fact and flies in the face of all evidence. You keep asking the same question over and over. You have the information make an informed decision based on solid testing and experience. There is no point in going over and over the same points. If buying a $2000 to $3000 amp is more appealing to you, that's fine, do so. You don' have to justify it to anyone. Get what will make you the happiest.

End of rant

Nick

 

[captain_tinker]

Captain, you have lots good information on the Behringer A500 from WmAx. Really solid stuff with supporting evidence. Seth maybe a nice guy with the best of intentions, but he has given advice with no basis of fact and flies in the face of all evidence. You keep asking the same question over and over. You have the information make an informed decision based on solid testing and experience. There is no point in going over and over the same points. If buying a $2000 to $3000 amp is more appealing to you, that's fine, do so. You don' have to justify it to anyone. Get what will make you the happiest.

End of rant

Nick

Sir,
You are absolutely correct. Thank you for the well intentioned knock over the head.

I AM actually going to look into this, and see if I can find it locally. The guitar store place didn't actually have it in stock, but they said they could order it in. So I may just go ahead and do that and see what I think of it. One other thing, just before reading your entry, I looked in the manual that was linked on that site, and one of the applications listed was Hi-Fi.

"-Ultra-linear power amplifier for recording studios, post-production, live sound and HiFi application"

I assume that HiFi means home theater in this case. So I guess that answers all of my questions. Many thanks again to the Audioholics crowd for coming through for me again.

-capT

 

[Nick250]

CapT, Best of luck with your upgrades.

Nick