Looking at Integrated Media Streamers - Thoughts?

Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I have already started to go down the rabbit hole, as I am planning out my 2 Channel Room. (14x16 extra bedroom.) I do want to keep it simple as I originally going to do a preamp/amp combo. Then I started to look at AVRS. Now I am looking at integrated amp media streamers.

My speaker choices for this build are the Philharmonic BMR Monitors (leading choice) or KEF R3 Bookshelves.

As far as integrated streaming amps, these are the brands I am looking at to drive the speakers

NAD 700 V2
ROTEL S14
LYNGDORF TDAI-1120

The Lyngdorf would be open box and save me about $500. I also looked at the NAD 10V1 on the resale market.

I like the NAD because it uses Class D and would not run as hot, along with a large screen (Not touchscreen however). I do like the form factor. It also has HDMI w/ARC if I ever wanted to put with a TV, which I most likely wouldn't.

Rotel is a newer unit, but a bit more than I would like to spend. It is Class AB

The Lyngdorf has RoomPerfect which is attractive at that price point.

I am curious what your thoughts on these devices, or if anyone has experience using them?
 
ban25

ban25

Audioholic
I've used several NAD streamers, including the M10 V2, Bluesound POWERNODE, and NODE. It's come up in Andrew Robinson's reviews and I agree: one thing about NAD, for better or worse, is that all their devices sound the same (and are controlled the same via BluOS). What this means practically is that you want to buy the cheapest NAD that meets all your needs in terms of features and power. Looking at the C 700, unless you are dead-set on having the screen, I would buy the POWERNODE instead. You'll get identical features, performance, and power (80wpc x 2) for $600 less. Otherwise, stepping up to something like the M10 V2 will add Dirac Room EQ, which is worthwhile.

I am on the list for a NAD C 3050 LE, which will be my next streamer as I love the throwback styling.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yamaha R-N2000A Integrated Amp with MusicCast media streamer and ESS SABRE ES9026PRO Ultra DAC.


 
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Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I wonder what his budget is as it looks like he's ( per his examples) is staying under $2500
Yes max budget is 2500ish, trying to stay under 2k if possible. I saw this Yamaha already and out of budget.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
As for as streaming integrated amp device, I am going to go with a NAD C389 w/BlueOS+Dirac upgrade card. It seemed like the best bang for your buck for all the features I want (and some I don't care about)

Whether it is in stock might be another story..

NAD C389
  • 130W Per channel HybridDigital nCore amplifier
  • Same Sabre ESS 9028 Dac as the M33 6K Streamer
  • AptX HD
  • 2 Sub Outs if I want to go that route
Should be right around $2000 list and in my budget. (including Expansion card) Not to concerned about the BlueOS, but want the ethernet port and Dirac room correction that comes with card.
 
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ban25

ban25

Audioholic
As for as streaming integrated amp device, I am going to go with a NAD C389 w/BlueOS+Dirac upgrade card. It seemed like the best bang for your buck for all the features I want (and some I don't care about)

Whether it is in stock might be another story..

NAD C389
  • 130W Per channel HybridDigital nCore amplifier
  • Same Sabre ESS 9028 Dac as the M33 6K Streamer
  • AptX HD
  • 2 Sub Outs if I want to go that route
Should be right around $2000 list and in my budget. (including Expansion card) Not to concerned about the BlueOS, but want the ethernet port and Dirac room correction that comes with card.
That's a good choice. BluOS is good stuff. I'm seriously considering dropping Roon and just using BluOS when my subscription comes due.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I am having second thoughts about the NAD, I have read a lot of complaints about customer service (lack theirof) and quality control issues.

I may go back to looking at some other options, but I will admit the NAD does bring alot to the table

Other Options I am now reviwing;

  • Marantz 40n Integrated
    • Definitely not for Helos
    • Would 70w be enough to drive a pair of Revel M106s
  • Rotel S14
    • AB Amp not sure if I want the heat

I did make the decision to by the Revel M106 over the Phil BMW Monitors, 100% based on getting an insane deal on a new pair in piano black.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am having second thoughts about the NAD, I have read a lot of complaints about customer service (lack theirof) and quality control issues.

I may go back to looking at some other options, but I will admit the NAD does bring alot to the table

Other Options I am now reviwing;

  • Marantz 40n Integrated
    • Definitely not for Helos
    • Would 70w be enough to drive a pair of Revel M106s
  • Rotel S14
    • AB Amp not sure if I want the heat

I did make the decision to by the Revel M106 over the Phil BMW Monitors, 100% based on getting an insane deal on a new pair in piano black.
You probably know I am going to say this, go separates! If you change your mind and take another look on separates, then it is easy to recommend the little buckeye NC502MP that sounded identical to my Bryston 4BSST and Parasond A21 amp in level matched (using REW/Umik-1) blind tests.

Then you can pick and choose the streamer like that has volume control to work with the mini Hypex amp.
The M106 can supposedly handle amps rated to to 150 W, so again the NC502MP is an excellent match.

Amir said the following, and in this case I agree with him, based on the sensitivity, impedance/phase angle specs. If you use it for truly near field and don't listen very loud then 70 W can be fine, obviously.

"So don't let the small size make you think you need a small little amplifier to drive it."

Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

1673789945778.png


I would love to get a single box device too but I couldn't find one that meets my requirement. Many have MQA, that actually turned me right off because I would be paying for something that I consider unnecessary for my use. The only good thing about MQA is, as implied in the name, the Master quality source contents, that I can look for myself instead of relying on and trust a third party. The electronic side of the story is just another marketing hype. I tried Tidal using a compatible DAC, so I know..
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
You probably know I am going to say this, go separates! If you change your mind and take another look on separates, then it is easy to recommend the little buckeye NC502MP that sounded identical to my Bryston 4BSST and Parasond A21 amp in level matched (using REW/Umik-1) blind tests.
And that Buckeye NC502MP 2-channel amp is at a great price as well compared to the other two you mentioned, and still have an excellent performance. A SOTA (or near) amplifier does not have to be very expensive nowadays.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
You probably know I am going to say this, go separates! If you change your mind and take another look on separates, then it is easy to recommend the little buckeye NC502MP that sounded identical to my Bryston 4BSST and Parasond A21 amp in level matched (using REW/Umik-1) blind tests.

Then you can pick and choose the streamer like that has volume control to work with the mini Hypex amp.
The M106 can supposedly handle amps rated to to 150 W, so again the NC502MP is an excellent match.

Amir said the following, and in this case I agree with him, based on the sensitivity, impedance/phase angle specs. If you use it for truly near field and don't listen very loud then 70 W can be fine, obviously.

"So don't let the small size make you think you need a small little amplifier to drive it."

Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

View attachment 59625

I would love to get a single box device too but I couldn't find one that meets my requirement. Many have MQA, that actually turned me right off because I would be paying for something that I consider unnecessary for my use. The only good thing about MQA is, as implied in the name, the Master quality source contents, that I can look for myself instead of relying on and trust a third party. The electronic side of the story is just another marketing hype. I tried Tidal using a compatible DAC, so I know..
I see your point as I have spent more time than I care to admit researching integrated network streaming amps. I have checked his review on the speakers as well.

I wanted a very clean (cosmetically) not a lot of wires, which I have stayed away from separates. I have an older A23 I can use, which should provide more than enough power. I just don't want the extra XLR, power cables etc. which is why I moved away from this option.

I am not a fan of MQA, at least after doing some research. I may have to go with your suggestion.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I see your point as I have spent more time than I care to admit researching integrated network streaming amps. I have checked his review on the speakers as well.

I wanted a very clean (cosmetically) not a lot of wires, which I have stayed away from separates. I have an older A23 I can use, which should provide more than enough power. I just don't want the extra XLR, power cables etc. which is why I moved away from this option.

I am not a fan of MQA, at least after doing some research. I may have to go with your suggestion.
If most of the equipment is close together, you don't need XLR cables and certainly nothing needs to be redundant. The difference between using an integrated amp and a separate pre/power amp is:

one additional power cord
one additional L/R audio cable

That and the space required for the added piece are the only differences.
 
ban25

ban25

Audioholic
I see your point as I have spent more time than I care to admit researching integrated network streaming amps. I have checked his review on the speakers as well.

I wanted a very clean (cosmetically) not a lot of wires, which I have stayed away from separates. I have an older A23 I can use, which should provide more than enough power. I just don't want the extra XLR, power cables etc. which is why I moved away from this option.

I am not a fan of MQA, at least after doing some research. I may have to go with your suggestion.
My overall advice here would be to 1) Get yourself some gear and 2) Listen to some music so you can then start to form your own opinions. If you don't like a particular piece, you can either return it or sell it for close to what you paid (particularly with the supply chain issues). Reading licensing debates over MQA is not going to enhance your listening experience :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I wanted a very clean (cosmetically) not a lot of wires, which I have stayed away from separates. I have an older A23 I can use, which should provide more than enough power. I just don't want the extra XLR, power cables etc. which is why I moved away from this option.

I am not a fan of MQA, at least after doing some research. I may have to go with your suggestion.
I understand, I don't like extra wires either and that's one reason why I would not use any minidsp with my AVR or AVP lol..

Being so small, you can probably place it close enough to the streamer and us the 3 ft or even 1.5 ft 22 AWG skinny cables:

The NC502MP is rated 350/500 W 8/4 ohms, if half of that is enough for you, the NC252MP should be even smaller.

It may be overkill but then you will not have to worry about clipping at all.



1673807596276.png
1673807415230.jpeg


For the streamer preamp, in addition to NAD and Arcam's, the Cambridge audio looks pretty good too.

CXN V2 - Network Player | Cambridge Audio US

and don't forget the dated but low cost WXA50:

Amazon.com: Yamaha WXA-50 MusicCast Wireless Streaming Amplifier : Electronics

Or just use a stereo NR1200 receiver and for $599, just pretend it does not have internal power amps. This is a rare moment when a Marantz version is $100 less than the corresponding Denon DRA-800. It probably is a mistake but you never know!

NR1200 Slim Stereo Receiver - 2 Ch. with HEOS® | Marantz™
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Is an AVR too boring? :D
Too big and the Marantz Slim, one of which I have, do not do very well review wise. I would prefer a very minimalist, clean setup. I like the NAD and others because they have room correction.
 
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Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I understand, I don't like extra wires either and that's one reason why I would not use any minidsp with my AVR or AVP lol..

Being so small, you can probably place it close enough to the streamer and us the 3 ft or even 1.5 ft 22 AWG skinny cables:

The NC502MP is rated 350/500 W 8/4 ohms, if half of that is enough for you, the NC252MP should be even smaller.

It may be overkill but then you will not have to worry about clipping at all.



View attachment 59627View attachment 59626

For the streamer preamp, in addition to NAD and Arcam's, the Cambridge audio looks pretty good too.

CXN V2 - Network Player | Cambridge Audio US

and don't forget the dated but low cost WXA50:

Amazon.com: Yamaha WXA-50 MusicCast Wireless Streaming Amplifier : Electronics

Or just use a stereo NR1200 receiver and for $599, just pretend it does not have internal power amps. This is a rare moment when a Marantz version is $100 less than the corresponding Denon DRA-800. It probably is a mistake but you never know!

NR1200 Slim Stereo Receiver - 2 Ch. with HEOS® | Marantz™

I was going to ask you about the NC252MP, because the NC502MP seemed like overkill for the M106s. I have looked at the Cambridge as well. Arcam was taken off the list, because in their ultimate wisdom, chose not to provide a sub output on any of their network streaming devices. Cambridge model has the same issue. For 1299 there should be a sub output.

The buckeye amp is definitely smaller. lol
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I was going to ask you about the NC252MP, because the NC502MP seemed like overkill for the M106s. I have looked at the Cambridge as well. Arcam was taken off the list, because in their ultimate wisdom, chose not to provide a sub output on any of their network streaming devices. Cambridge model has the same issue. For 1299 there should be a sub output.

The buckeye amp is definitely smaller. lol
I think the NC252MP is great. The only reason I went with the NC502MP is for the irresistible $/W ratio.:) Also, since it replaced the A21 that was rated 250/400 W so it was easier to convince myself with the 502 it would be an upgrade for me in power and downgrade only in size and weight.

What do you think of the super sales price of the Marantz NR1200, I know you are very good in finding great deals, do think this could be one of those rare deals? It checks almost all the box for me, and without HDAMs it should measure better. If it has the .1 channel discrete, I will definitely get one but it seems impossible to find a truly 2.1 receiver.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Ok, now I am so over researching mode, sometimes I love/hate this addiction. It's not like I have to make a life or death situation here.

Final 3 Options I am considering, and I want to pull the trigger this week as the M106s have been collecting dust.

Marantz 40n -
  • Class A/B 70w,
  • checks all the boxes except it doesn't have pre outs
  • Looks damn sexy though lol
  • Uses ESS Sabre 90028Pro Dac, all the inputs I need.
  • Is Roon Compatible.
  • Like the smaller form factor.
  • Downside, it's expensive and no room correction.

Go back to the Receiver Route
  • Go the Yamaha RX- A6A or A4A Route. More power, not sure if equal in amp quality. Has room correction, and getting a hell of a lot more for my money even the A6A is break even with the Marantz.
  • Downside is form factor, the A4A uses a lower quality DAC then the rest. Do I want the extra heat generated by all those channels.
  • Could look at comparable offerings from Denon/Marantz
  • Has Pre-outs
Go with the NAD 399 w/ BlueOS Card
  • Class D Hybrid Amp
  • 150w channel vs 70 of the Marantz
  • two subwoofer outs, thought I don't think I would use two subs for music in the room I am using
  • Dirac Live room correction.
  • has pre-outs
  • NAD Quality and Customer service concerns
I am never going to go beyond 2 channels. I do want the HDMI and earc or arc, which all of these models have. It's a smaller room about 12x14 (I just remeasured and realized I had put the wrong size in my OP) I don't blast music, so I think all models would serve me fine.

Decisions, decisions lol
 
ban25

ban25

Audioholic
I like the Marantz 40n, but one note is that it is Roon Tested, not Roon Ready. That means you can stream over AirPlay 2 (16-bit/48kHz stereo only). Not a big deal, of course, but something to keep an eye out for if you must have high-resolution playback from Roon.
 

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