Look what happens when customers buy from Elemental Designs

majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
major, i didn't know puerto rico was super close to the US.

but i did mean that my shipment was only in the continental US. then it was stuffed in a container to protect it from the dangers of shipping loose cargo internationally.
Puerto Rico is a USA territory. So the shipper should be governed by US Interstate Commerce laws.

The sub-contractor in question, Caribean Transport Services, is a division of FedEx.
http://www.caribbeantrans.com/

Though they were sub-contracted by AGS or Associated Global Systems.
http://www.agsystems.com/index.html

I would think that contacting either company directly through the corporate headquarters should be the next step. If that is not fruitful, the services of an attorney should be obtained. The individual may not have success alone.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
There are so many good subwoofer companies with proper dealer networks, support and distribution. I don't believe these small companies are worth the hassle, especially internationally. These little companies are just DIY subwoofer builders, that probably don't build anything nicer than the guys do in the DIY forum here. Their electronics fail too, and no one can get support when they do, I've seen numerous threads about this before.

If people are going to recommend these little internet direct brands that are so popular on here, I think it is safe to say you should at least warn against the possible downsides. This stuff happens too often with these companies.
The cost savings from buying ID direct plus the fact not everyone lives close to a dealer will keep ID alive. I think it's also hard to say what constitutes a high failure rate when we don't know how many hundreds, if not thousands of products are sold without a problem and we never hear from them. The internet has a way of overblowing isolated issues(not saying this is the case here).

Every company has to start somewhere, you just don't become a Velodyne or Polk Audio overnight.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Puerto Rico is a USA territory. So the shipper should be governed by US Interstate Commerce laws.

The sub-contractor in question, Caribean Transport Services, is a division of FedEx.
http://www.caribbeantrans.com/

Though they were sub-contracted by AGS or Associated Global Systems.
http://www.agsystems.com/index.html

I would think that contacting either company directly through the corporate headquarters should be the next step. If that is not fruitful, the services of an attorney should be obtained. The individual may not have success alone.
agreed. i don't even know why people like us get stuff like insurance in the first place. :(
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Lets say what if this was a sofa or dinning room table, shiped out the country(exported, down here in south florida this is very common to the islands) and it was a damaged does anyone believe that the retailer would send a new unit out free of charge and only hope the shipper reimburses them? With most export goods and manufacturing, the liability follows each signature meaning once it left ed, they are not liable for any damage after that(aside from manufactures warranty, and then out of country can be tricky). I fell bad for the guy, and ed should help in cliam process to show that good faith. I completly understand their side also, its a fine line. Living in Puerto Rico, im sure this isnt an isolated occurance and all will be worked out in the end, hopefuly within a reasonable time frame.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
My first comments on the subject:

If this is the quality of eD's packaging for international shipment, even for domestic shipment, they are already a sub-standard company in my book. That's just shabby and poorly considered for such a heavy and expensive product. It just reeks of carelessness.


Further, the damage from what I interpret from the photos is suggestive of a hard drop...a very hard drop. I've done my share of shipping/receiving and forklift driving and it's pretty easy to cause a lot of damage to something without necessarily upsetting the exterior appearance of the packaging. Without unpacking the sub at the airport and testing its operation in the hangar, it would be difficult if not impossible to find this damage on the wrapped skid.

I have to say that I'm leaning heavily towards the OP on this one. From what I can see to interpret, eD's packing efforts are shoddy at best and they should share some responsibility for choosing the disgraceful shipping method. My conclusion so far, barring any new information, is that the OP is getting boned by eD and it's appointed agents acting on their behalf. I would not consider eD a reputable business based upon this incident so far.
 
A

A7450broken

Enthusiast
Update

Lets say what if this was a sofa or dinning room table, shiped out the country(exported, down here in south florida this is very common to the islands) and it was a damaged does anyone believe that the retailer would send a new unit out free of charge and only hope the shipper reimburses them? With most export goods and manufacturing, the liability follows each signature meaning once it left ed, they are not liable for any damage after that(aside from manufactures warranty, and then out of country can be tricky). I fell bad for the guy, and ed should help in cliam process to show that good faith. I completly understand their side also, its a fine line. Living in Puerto Rico, im sure this isnt an isolated occurance and all will be worked out in the end, hopefuly within a reasonable time frame.
ED- we have some paperwork to be filled and sent.
AGS- you have to talk to ED
CTS-You have to wait until the Manager comes back tomorrow so we can tell you how is it going to get managed...

Jajajajajajja WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Stay on top of them, really pester them, send e-mails, phone calls daily, certified mail in case litigation comes up, leave a paper trail, print all your e-mails with their responses, build a file, this will help you immensely.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
what happened to your posts on AVS? were you banned? you should have only posted in the eD thread and not every other thread.
 
A

A7450broken

Enthusiast
Sorry...Update

what happened to your posts on AVS? were you banned? you should have only posted in the eD thread and not every other thread.
Yep, i got carried away sorry for that multiposting....
I talked to ED and they told me that at least they will start building me a new sub.They will not ship it yet, but that's a start.

Thanks to ED for that...at least...
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Yep, i got carried away sorry for that multiposting....
I talked to ED and they told me that at least they will start building me a new sub.They will not ship it yet, but that's a start.

Thanks to ED for that...at least...
I guess that's good news. :)

I wish you good luck in getting the replacement unit in better shape this time. But I'd still take a camera with you when the next one arrives. Document the way you first receive the freight when it arrives.
 
A

A7450broken

Enthusiast
I guess that's good news. :)

I wish you good luck in getting the replacement unit in better shape this time. But I'd still take a camera with you when the next one arrives. Document the way you first receive the freight when it arrives.
Absolutely!
 
C

chrisw1

Enthusiast
Any chance this was purchased on a major credit card? Most card companies provide extra coverage for incidents such as this. I would give your card company a call and see what they can do for you. Do this sooner rather than later as some cards have time limits as to when you are covered by their protection.
 
A

A7450broken

Enthusiast
Yep

Any chance this was purchased on a major credit card? Most card companies provide extra coverage for incidents such as this. I would give your card company a call and see what they can do for you. Do this sooner rather than later as some cards have time limits as to when you are covered by their protection.
Yes, Pentagon Federal Credit Union(VISA) will give Elemental Designs several phone calls!
 
dorokusai

dorokusai

Full Audioholic
I would have refused shipment on that as well.

At my previous job with Sprint Nextel, I shipped thousands of packages a year and don't recall the last time we had a serious claim with UPS/FedEx. That being said, I'm wasn't shipping 100+ lb subwoofers either....thank goodness. The freight work we did was hundreds of lbs and in the $5-30K+ range so those guys tend to be pretty careful....MOST of the time. I don't do much shipping at all with Verizon Wireless.

As far as Polk goods go, I have no idea but I'm sure the turnover is moderate from the stock packaging I've seen.

Mark
Polk Audio CS
 
A

A7450broken

Enthusiast
I have been banned from the ICIX Sound Forum as well!
Apparently someone from there doesn't like my story...

Not that Im guessing here, but I have seen many ED posts there...
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
It may not be ED's fault that the sub was damaged, but they know it has been damaged in shipment. While they don't have a legal obligation to send a new sub or refund the money immediately; for them to not do this and for this to be posted on forums for all to see, I will wager, is going to cost ED thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands of dollars in business. Any company that is committed to customer service will usually take care of a problem like this immediately. It's kind of an unwritten rule. So this means to me that ED is probably not committed to customer service.

I have been thinking about some of those new 13" sub drivers they make; but to realize that if they are damaged in shipment, I would have to wait who knows how many months for them to send replacements after they 'get their check from the claims adjuster', this certainly reduces my interest in buying anything from ED.

However, all hope is not lost! If ED is pointed to this thread, and realizes the damage to sales this event may cause them, then perhaps they will step up to the plate and provide the customer service that is expected of them.

-Chris
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...
However, all hope is not lost! If ED is pointed to this thread, and realizes the damage to sales this event may cause them, then perhaps they will step up to the plate and provide the customer service that is expected of them.

-Chris
Dragging them to the customer service table? :eek:
Do they deserve it?
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
Yep, i got carried away sorry for that multiposting....
I talked to ED and they told me that at least they will start building me a new sub.They will not ship it yet, but that's a start.

Thanks to ED for that...at least...
i'm not backing eD here because i have mine doing service as well, but ... i'd say that makes it fair now that they're building your sub.
 

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