Logitech Z-5500 - Speaker Setup

[cr0n]

Hi Everybody,

I've recently bought myself a new machine together with what seems to be a real awesome speaker system (I only read the reviews after buying the speaker set)

My machine includes:

MSI K8N Diamond MB
AMD 64bit 3800+
2 GB RAM
400GB HDD

Running:

Windows XP SP2

So clearly performance wont be an issue for any sound

In case you missed it in the topic, the speaker system is a Logitech Z-5500.

The board has the following spec sound card:

Creative sound Blaster Live 24-bit onboard audio
- 24-bit / 96KHz audio quality
- 100db SNR clarity
- Up to 7.1 CH Surround Sound, Dolby Digital ready

Now after setting up the entire Logitech system correctly (you cant go wrong , so long as you can read and match the reds you're sorted ) I am having what seems to be some issues.

The system really just does not play "loud" like it is made out to do in all the reviews. It seems as if what the output is extremely soft. For example, if I play an MP3, it does not play on the surround speakers, only the sub, FL and FR - not even centre, then if I swop the setting to "Stereo x2" on the control , it plays on all the speakers however, its way softer and I mean way softer than compared to just the 3 that where playing.

To really get any volume, (baring in mind my volume outputs on Windows is just about 90%) - I have to play the system WAY above half, just a few lines below the MAX - and it really aint all that loud.

Does anybody have any ideas?

Your replies will be very helpful as I am a complete newbie to speaker systems/sound and look very forward to getting the maximiun out of my product.

Cheers!
Dave

 

[SilverMK3]

I'm assuming that you're using either an optical or coaxial digital SPDIF connection from your computer to the Z5500's. This is where you run into an interesting caveat in the use of "digital" speakers like yours that have home-theater processing capabilities.

Your Logitech speakers' control pod has a built-in Dolby Digital and DTS decoder. It is capable of processing these surround-sound compression formats and sending the the audio information to the correct speakers. Unfortunately, your onboard sound isn't able to "create" its own Dolby Digital or DTS compressed audio streams. It is capable of reading the Dolby or DTS information from a DVD and passing it along to the decoder on your speakers, but it can't take surround sound from a game and encode it into Dolby Digital's "AC3" format so that the control pod understands it.

You need a sound card that has the Dolby Digital Live interactive content encoder chip. There are currently only two on the market and they're brand new (having only surfaced in North America less than a month ago):

1. The HDA Digital X-Mystique Gold
2. The Turtle Beach Montego DDL

Currently your soundcard is only able to communicate with your speakers using a format called LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation). It is limited to 2-channel stereo sound. You can use "matrix modes" like Dolby Pro-Logic to expand that stereo information to your center and surround channels, but there is some quality loss inherant in this, possibly explaining the lower volumes you're hearing.

Also, I think its important to mention that CDs (and therefore mp3s) are only recorded in 2 channel stereo, so the only way to hear "surround sound" effects in your music is to use matrixing technologies like Pro-Logic or DTS:Neo6.

 

[cr0n]

Wow!

What a awesome reply! I thank you so much for that! Now when we compare the card that I've currently got onboard, to say something like a:

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro -24Bit ADVANCED HD Audio Solution with 8 Channel
192kHz/108dB SNR for Unsurpassed Audio Fidelity & External I/O Hub with Remote

Will this increase quality and make things better? I've been told that the card that I have is by far one of the tops and there would be no use in purchasing something like the above?

Also to clarify I have swopped between digital (optical) and analogue connections to see if there would be any difference, I would presume that using the optical would be the better solution?

You refer to: "technologies like Pro-Logic or DTS:Neo6."

Excuse my lack of knowledge but is this Software or Hardware driven? If software, what can I change/use to acheive this?!

I also therefore take it that when the reviews talk about how "loud" the system is - they are referring to a DVD been played etc?

Is it possible that my sound card has some built in "booster" where I can set it to play even louder? I've played a few decent DVDs and it still does not come across as really "loud" and how it should play?

I really hope nothing is wrong, I'm sure it's all settings?

Looking forward to your detailed reply again!

 

[brian32672]

Yes, to me it sounds more like a setting that is not set correctly. I see you say windows is at like 90%. But have you gone into your soundcard program to make sure spdif is set correctly, also try turning the equalizer in the sound program on and off. Spdif usually has about 4 settings, one for digital, one for analog, one for dig & analog, and off. Also there may be different bit rates, etc..... And last, try updating you motherboard audio codec. Or at least go to manufacture and see if there is a update.

 

[cr0n]

"Spdif " - I have looked around but have not been able to find something like this, any idea where I should be looking? I do know that the panel has a setting where I need to select what speaker setup I'm using and also if it is a "digital output" but that is all.

The Creative utilities that come with the application override windows's normal Sound Controller and these are the settings that I have at around 90%

 

[cr0n]

MSI K8N Diamond MB which has a built in opticle out by the sound plugs.. so I just use that? Where are the configurations for this?

 

[brian32672]

Yeah, I just checked. That motherboard has a new audio driver just sent out 3 days ago that fixes a lot of problems....

 

[brian32672]

Realtek ALC Series AC'97 Audio Drivers



Support model All MSI MB with onboard Realtek® Avance ALC Series audio codec controller.




Description • For special customize settings.
• Modify initiate of DMA buffer allocate.
• Fix abnormal THD+N performance on A-D test.
• New support WinXP 64-bit OS
• Version: 5.10.0.5830


Warning: The 64-bit driver is in beta stage and may be unstable. Install at your own risk.




Date 2005-6-14




Your System OS All Windows(15946KB)WinXP 64-bit(12803KB)

 

[brian32672]

OOPS this is a beta version, maybe try driver just before this one

 

[brian32672]

Have you tried bypassing the Creative card. And just use motherboard outputs. You have to go into bios and turn onboard audio on. That board will also do 7.1

 

[brian32672]

Also just checked Creative site. And they put out a new driver 2 days ago.....Look at the area that states features, below. I will put it in bold.

Title Date

1. Creative Basic Audio Suite for Creative Sound Blaster audio devices (35.59 MB) 15 Jun 05 Download Now


This web release installs applications to control your Creative Sound Blaster®'s audio settings. See 'Requirements' below for the list of supported audio devices. The following software will be installed:
Creative Device Control (version 1.20.08)
Creative E.....

Hide Details




Filename: BasicAudio_PCApp_1_00_03.exe
Creative Basic Audio Suite for Creative Sound Blaster audio devices
BAUD-WBAPP-1-LB

This web release installs applications to control your Creative Sound Blaster®'s audio settings. See 'Requirements' below for the list of supported audio devices.

The following software will be installed:

Creative Device Control (version 1.20.08)
Creative EAX Console (version 2.05.06)
Creative Speaker Settings (version 1.54.08)
If you have already installed the software on your computer, see 'Notes' below to check existing software version numbers before installing this audio suite.

Features:

Provides the following control options for your Sound Blaster audio device:

Output audio quality
SPDIF Input/Output sampling rate
Decoder
Speaker configuration
Sound effects
Creative MultiSpeaker Surround
Requirements:

Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition, Windows XP (SP2 or SP1) or Windows 2000 SP4
Sound Blaster Live!® 24-bit External, Sound Blaster MP3+, Sound Blaster Digital Music, Sound Blaster Digital Music LX, Sound Blaster Audigy® 2 NX, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Video Editor, Sound Blaster Audigy LS or Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit audio device installed and connected
Notes:

To check the version number of your Creative software:
Click Start -> Programs/All Programs -> Creative -> Creative System Information -> Creative Products -> Creative Software.
Click the application name.
Check the version number.
Close the application window.
If you have your Sound Blaster audio device Installation CD, be sure to complete the installation of Creative applications before installing this audio suite.
Before you use this update for your Sound Blaster audio device, make sure that no other applications are running or active in your computer.
When installing this audio suite, do not disconnect your Sound Blaster audio device.

 

[cr0n]

Bare in mind that I dont have a card, I only have the onboard audio device.

I have just connected up my previous sound system to this new card, it seems as if what the volume output from this card is extremely soft. What could be the problem now? I also do have the latest version drivers installed.

Man this is so dissapointing, but certainly the output from the card is very soft!

 

[brian32672]

So are you saying one card sounds louder than the other???

 

[cr0n]

Ok let me explain, I recently bought a brand new machine! The old machine that I had, which was some really sad machine, that had a external card worked, nothing fancy at all but the output was certainly loud to the old speaker system that I had. I have now connected my old speak system up to my NEW machine and the ONBOARD sound card (the old card was some REAL old 16bit creative thing) but, the loudness compared to the OLD card vs the NEW onboard card on my NEW motherboard/machine - is WAY softer.

Conclution: The new onboard sound outputting to my OLD speaker system is WAY softer than my OLD machine and OLD card to the OLD speak system.

 

[brian32672]

Ok, well if you have the newest drivers and control panels-Then one of the settings is for speaker configuration. Double check that, also I have found that on volume issues, I actually get like 10% more volume when I turn a generic effect on in the control panel. Are you using Windows Media player? If so there are plenty of settings in there to boost sound.

 

[brian32672]

I am assuming your panel looks like this. Try disabling AC3 Decoding.

 

[SilverMK3]

Wow!

What a awesome reply! I thank you so much for that! Now when we compare the card that I've currently got onboard, to say something like a:

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro -24Bit ADVANCED HD Audio Solution with 8 Channel
192kHz/108dB SNR for Unsurpassed Audio Fidelity & External I/O Hub with Remote

Will this increase quality and make things better? I've been told that the card that I have is by far one of the tops and there would be no use in purchasing something like the above?

No problem at all. I've built quite a few home-theater PCs for people and this is an issue I've had to explain before

Your onboard SB Live wouldn't hold a candle to the Audigy 2 ZS in terms of gaming performance or audio quality over analog connections. The processor on the "Live!" series cards was designed in the late 90's and has only had a couple of minor updates to it since then. The Audigy2 core has much more processing power at its disposal.

Unfortunately, none of Creative Labs' cards are capable of real-time Dolby Digital encoding. They are all able to de-code Dolby Digital streams in software, or pass-through exisiting DD streams for external decoding, but none can convert other formats to Dolby Digital so that your Logitech control pod or home theater receiver can understand it.

Also to clarify I have swopped between digital (optical) and analogue connections to see if there would be any difference, I would presume that using the optical would be the better solution?

In your case, the only way to get 5.1 channel sound out of your computer is to use analog connections, so that'd be the better route. If you do a lot of gaming, I'd recommend staying with this method until there are better gaming-oriented cards that cand do Dolby Digital Live.

You refer to: "technologies like Pro-Logic or DTS:Neo6."

Excuse my lack of knowledge but is this Software or Hardware driven? If software, what can I change/use to acheive this?!

This is hardware driven and exists in the control pod of your Z-5500's. Dolby Pro-Logic and DTS Neo6 are audio processing algorythms that expand 2-channel stereo sound into 5.1 channel surround sound. While they can be convincing, they're not as good as keeping the original 5.1 channel source intact.

I also therefore take it that when the reviews talk about how "loud" the system is - they are referring to a DVD been played etc?

They're probably talking about how loud it is if it is not doing any extra processing to the signal, though it shouldn't make a huge difference.

Is it possible that my sound card has some built in "booster" where I can set it to play even louder? I've played a few decent DVDs and it still does not come across as really "loud" and how it should play?

I really hope nothing is wrong, I'm sure it's all settings?

Looking forward to your detailed reply again!

Make sure all of the volume levels in Windows and whatever software you use for watching movies and listening to music is turned all the way up. You can control the levels better from your control pod anyway.

 

[cr0n]

It seems that I have just found out some more information regarding my mother board - MSI K8N Diamond - and the Creative Live 24-bit onboard card. There is more to it than just "low output"

#1 Why my K8N Diamond SB audio doesn't work?

K8N Diamond is the Global 1st Dolby Certified MB, with this specific function, it provides the most powerful onboard audio function in the world. Meanwhile, it requires some different power supply as our original design.

Recently, we have some feedbacks from our customer regards to our K8N Diamond platform. The symptom of this problem is that after system installation, there is no audio output (no sound) even the audio chip was found. After our internal investigation, it is found that the customer was not reading the manual carefully, and followed the special highlights in Page2-10 as show below.

As the audio chip require -5V power pin to work probably, a power supply without -5V pin supply will cause no audio output (no sound) or audio output in very low volume.

Our R&D has found a solution to avoid this compatibility problem happen now and future.
If you have the audio problem and your power supply do not meet our -5v requirement, you can go through the normal RMA process for board replacement.

MSI command Powersupply List:
HighPower: HPC-420-102DF 420w
Top power (24pin): Top-450PS 450w
Seventeam(24pin): ST-460AF-OSG 460w

The above is a quote from the K8N Diamond forum at http://diamondclub.msi.com.tw/eng/forum/ - Not sure if you would be able to view. The sad thing is that my power supply does not have the extra white wire with the -5V connector so I am in search of one that has this.

Your onboard SB Live wouldn't hold a candle to the Audigy 2 ZS in terms of gaming performance or audio quality over analog connections. The processor on the "Live!" series cards was designed in the late 90's and has only had a couple of minor updates to it since then. The Audigy2 core has much more processing power at its disposal.

I'm really no gamer and didnt get the speaker system for games either, I really just want extreme quality packed with loudness when I want to pump the system! I like it loud nown again

Further more, think it would be worth while to spend this amount of money on the card? Do you think the output would THEN be LLOOUUDDEER? - What you rate?

In your case, the only way to get 5.1 channel sound out of your computer is to use analog connections, so that'd be the better route. If you do a lot of gaming, I'd recommend staying with this method until there are better gaming-oriented cards that cand do Dolby Digital Live.

Nope, it makes no difference if I use the analogue or the digital - either way the outputs are so fussy!

Again, thanks for your awesome assistance - seems that this is turning in to quite a great post to anybody else who requires assistance with the K8N/z-5500.

 

[SilverMK3]

I see. The reason I assumed you were using it for gaming was because, aside from movies, it is the only real source of 5.1 channel audio on a PC. Music is mostly 2-channel only except for a small list of exceptions including DVD-Audio discs, SACDs, and DTS CDs.

Either way. I think that when you get the power issue sorted out, you'll be just fine. Before I upgraded to a receiver and home-theater speakers, I used to have my hometheater PC and DVD player hooked up to a set of Logitech Z680's - the predecessor to your 5500's.

 

[brian32672]

Yeah, thats a load off. I had demoed these speakers somewhere and they played superb for computer speakers. Gave excellent surround imaging.

The power issue is a good find, thanks for finding it and putting it in a post....