Logic and Alan Dershowitz

Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Full Audioholic
One of the greatest threads ever!
Or it is 4:00 am and I can’t sleep.
Thanks
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Well there are the nutjobs on the right...
Agreed. And, conversely... Agree? And while it's fun to pick the nutjobs to refute, (still waiting for a defense of the poll where 62% of democrats said they would rather a giant meteor destroy all humans on earth than see Trump reelected), it is part of the reason it's so difficult to have a productive debate between the left and right. It's hard to define where an issue crosses over from mainstream to nutjobery.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Agreed. And, conversely... Agree? And while it's fun to pick the nutjobs to refute, (still waiting for a defense of the poll where 62% of democrats said they would rather a giant meteor destroy all humans on earth than see Trump reelected), it is part of the reason it's so difficult to have a productive debate between the left and right. It's hard to define where an issue crosses over from mainstream to nutjobery.
You're the nutjob, tho. Like that ridiculous example you just posted. What poll? That from one of your conspiracy theory fake news sources you folk on the weird right like to have reinforcing their odd beliefs?
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Many years ago, when I took Algebra I and Geometry, I had to learn the logic that goes with simple If-Then statements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraposition:

If A, then B. If statement A is true, then statement B must also be true. For logic like this, True is defined as ALWAYS true, and False is defined as NOT always true. Let’s leave the abstract statements A & B and make this more specific. Let A = something is a cat, and B = it’s a mammal. It becomes: If it’s a cat, then it’s a mammal, a true Implication. If A is false (something is not a cat), the statement “it’s a mammal” is also false. The entire Implication would also be false.

If B is not true (not a mammal), then A must also be not true. This is called the Contrapositive of the original Implication. If an original Implication is true, then the Contrapositive must also be true – by definition. If the original Implication is false, the Contrapositive must also be false.

Here are all the various forms of If-Then statements, their Logic names, and their true/false status:
ImplicationIf A, then BIf it’s a cat, then it’s a mammalTrue
ContrapositiveIf not B, then not AIf it’s NOT a mammal, then it’s NOT a catTrue
ConverseIf not A, then not BIf it’s NOT a cat, then it’s NOT a mammalFalse
InverseIf B, then AIf it’s a mammal, then it’s a catFalse
NegationIf A, then not BIf it’s a cat, then it’s NOT a mammalFalse
Sometimes, if an original implication’s truth is not clear, it’s useful to look at the contrapositive. (I won't go into those other logic forms, Converse, Inverse, and Negation.)


Why am I going into any of this? Last Wednesday, Alan Dershowitz asserted in the Senate impeachment trial of Donald Trump, that “Every public official I know believes that his election is in the public interest. Therefore, if a president did something that he believes will help him get elected – something he believes is in the public interest – that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.” I struggled to understand that.

Let’s apply some Logic 101.
If A (doing something he believes is in the public interest), then B (it cannot be impeachable).​

Dershowitz claims this is a true statement. If so, the Contrapositive should also be true… If NOT B, then NOT A.
If something CAN result in impeachment, then the president DID NOT DO something that he believes would help him get elected – this would also be something AGAINST the public interest.​

Huh? Something is clearly wrong here. If the original Implication is true, then the Contrapositive should also be true. Instead, it makes no sense at all. If anything, it sounds more irrational than his original Implication. To carry this one step further, the Contrapositive of his original Implication says:

Something that is against the public interest – losing an election or re-election – would be grounds for impeachment.​

Why bother with an election or re-election if it’s unconstitutional to lose? Alan Dershowitz flunks Constitutional Law, must less Logic 101.

Dershowitz’s grew up in Brooklyn, where con-artists with a cocky attitude are a dime a dozen. Imagine Bugs Bunny. Bugs had that Brooklyn accent – and that classic Brooklyn attitude. Dershowitz may have spent some 50 years at Harvard Law School, but 50 years wasn’t long enough for him to loose ‘dat Brooklyn attitude’. Those skills may have contributed to his success as a court room defense attorney, but they fail at Constitutional Law.

If Dershowitz asks to you to make change for a $20 bill, just walk away. Never play poker with him – and never ever take him up on an offer to sell you a bridge.
I wanted to pay a short visit and like your thread, but decided to give it a "funny". Don't get this wrong, I like it, it's funny only because of the title.
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
You're the nutjob, tho. Like that ridiculous example you just posted. What poll? That from one of your conspiracy theory fake news sources you folk on the weird right like to have reinforcing their odd beliefs?
Well, yes... you're right. Here are a couple "conspiracy theory fake news sources" citing the poll... Time and Huffington Post...
https://time.com/5780556/meteor-poll-trump-new-hampshire/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/meteor-trump-new-hampshire-primary-poll_n_5e40dbd4c5b6b70887031f18

Didn't your favorite "news" sources tell you about this? Odd.
I'm still waiting for your defense of these folks.
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Agreed. And, conversely... Agree? And while it's fun to pick the nutjobs to refute, (still waiting for a defense of the poll where 62% of democrats said they would rather a giant meteor destroy all humans on earth than see Trump reelected), it is part of the reason it's so difficult to have a productive debate between the left and right. It's hard to define where an issue crosses over from mainstream to nutjobery.
Alex, can you explain exactly what about my post you think was "dumb"? (BTW, you did see my links to Time and Huffington Post, right?) And you're so sweet to start "following" me.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, yes... you're right. Here are a couple "conspiracy theory fake news sources" citing the poll... Time and Huffington Post...
https://time.com/5780556/meteor-poll-trump-new-hampshire/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/meteor-trump-new-hampshire-primary-poll_n_5e40dbd4c5b6b70887031f18

Didn't your favorite "news" sources tell you about this? Odd.
I'm still waiting for your defense of these folks.
LOL thanks. With a poll choice like that it's not hard to take that option I suppose but suspect this was not taken very seriously except by you. Small poll, small part of the country with no real perspective on how the poll was presented (or with what other kinds of questions aside from the myriad candidates)....it just is a big stretch to say all Democrats feel this strongly about drumphy....altho assholes like drumphy can polarize people. I'd rather live but I'm not a party member either.
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
With a poll choice like that it's not hard to take that option I suppose
So, in spite of your dismissal of the poll, you say this? So again I'll say, "It's hard to define where an issue crosses over from mainstream to nutjobery." But Alex thinks it's dumb, so I must be mistaken. You guys must be beaming with pride after the best of the best in your party discussed last night why they should be president. And Alex, you must be full of optimism yourself. Good for you! Buckle up!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
So, in spite of your dismissal of the poll, you say this? So again I'll say, "It's hard to define where an issue crosses over from mainstream to nutjobery." But Alex thinks it's dumb, so I must be mistaken. You guys must be beaming with pride after the best of the best in your party discussed last night why they should be president. And Alex, you must be full of optimism yourself. Good for you! Buckle up!
Yes, and I did. You're so observant. It's not even an issue. It's a f*cking fantasy. Like most of the nonsense you drone on about. You do post a lot of dumb stuff, tho, and come across as a nutjob with your positions and assumptions....and again, it's not my party. I'd like to see both abolished.
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, and I did. You're so observant. It's not even an issue. It's a f*cking fantasy. Like most of the nonsense you drone on about. You do post a lot of dumb stuff, tho, and come across as a nutjob with your positions and assumptions....and again, it's not my party. I'd like to see both abolished.
When presented with FACTS you don't like, you resort to personal attacks. The funniest thing is that you think it's reasonable and acceptable to wish all humanity destroyed rather than see Trump reelected. I think you honestly believe people who disagree with you are the nutjobs. And Alex thinks I'm the dumb one. So very sad.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
When presented with FACTS you don't like, you resort to personal attacks. The funniest thing is that you think it's reasonable and acceptable to wish all humanity destroyed rather than see Trump reelected. I think you honestly believe people who disagree with you are the nutjobs. And Alex thinks I'm the dumb one. So very sad.
What facts? You call that idiotic poll a fact ? When will this meteor come that will put us out of drumphy misery? Or will Space Force save us? LOL.
 
herbu

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
What facts? You call that idiotic poll a fact ? When will this meteor come that will put us out of drumphy misery? Or will Space Force save us? LOL.
Hahaha! The facts that there was a poll of democrats, it was legitimate enough that some of your top liberal outlets reported it, 62% of dems polled are insane, you agree with them, you can neither admit the absurdity of the response or find any reasonable explanation for their answer, and your only response is the typical personal attack.

Here's a deal. You continue claiming some kind of moral and intellectual superiority, and ignoring the signs that you and your kind are taking positions that are demented. I'll continue laughing at you and watch while you reap the benefits, (albeit kicking and screaming), of the republican agenda for at least the next 5 years. And make no mistake, I will be laughing!!!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Hahaha! The facts that there was a poll of democrats, it was legitimate enough that some of your top liberal outlets reported it, 62% of dems polled are insane, you agree with them, you can neither admit the absurdity of the response or find any reasonable explanation for their answer, and your only response is the typical personal attack.

Here's a deal. You continue claiming some kind of moral and intellectual superiority, and ignoring the signs that you and your kind are taking positions that are demented. I'll continue laughing at you and watch while you reap the benefits, (albeit kicking and screaming), of the republican agenda for at least the next 5 years. And make no mistake, I will be laughing!!!
Me and my kind? LOL. You want a population of relatively fearful stupid old white people, we're there now. You prefer the kind of morality and the insanity the drumph has? Figures.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
And then, what would you like to see as a replacement? Random small groups of people who agree on political issues?
Start over. A little anarchy could go a long way. It's a relative pipe dream, as neither the Dems or Repubs are going to discipline themselves obviously.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Start over. A little anarchy could go a long way. It's a relative pipe dream, as neither the Dems or Repubs are going to discipline themselves obviously.
Anarchy, in a country of more than 325 million? People are shitting the bed now with their behavior- what are you trying to start?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Anarchy, in a country of more than 325 million? People are shitting the bed now with their behavior- what are you trying to start?
We did poop the bed already, we got the government we deserve I suppose.
 

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