listening to music, pure (direct) vs stereo plus subwoofer

[bradymartin]

denon x3300
klipsch rp 280s
hsu vtf2 mk5

i keep going back and forth between these two modes

using stereo mode, audyssey is flat, eq on, 0 reference and dynamic volume off. speakers set to 80
i like it, if im going to describe the sound the bass is smoother.

in pure direct mode
bass is punchier and sounds a little deeper, more treble. maybe a tad bit louder. might even sound more alive

does this make sense or maybe i have something setup wrong?
im wondering if the extra bass from the subwoofer when using stereo mode which turns on the sub, sort of makes the treble sound less bright than in pure direct mode.

i have to say though, i think i might like pure direct mode more using just the rp280s.
these speakers are awesome.
this is sort of a letdown because the subwoofer cost me $600 bucks lol

 

[Ponzio]

if the "pure direct" on the Denon x3300 is anything like Yamaha models you're only getting the left & right channel, no sub signal.

 

[ThunderClap]

How do you like the Denon 3300W for music?

 

[bradymartin]

How do you like the Denon 3300W for music?

sounds great, but never had another brand avr

 

[lovinthehd]

How do you have your speakers set...large or small? LFE or LFE+Main? Why the RLO set at 0 (the recommended movie setting) vs 5,10,15?

 

[bradymartin]

How do you have your speakers set...large or small? LFE or LFE+Main? Why the RLO set at 0 (the recommended movie setting) vs 5,10,15?

small at 80, lfe only, hmm didnt think about messing around with the reference level offset.? i just left it at 0

 

[lovinthehd]

small at 80, lfe only, hmm didnt think about messing around with the reference level offset.? i just left it at 0

Try this https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

 

[bradymartin]

Try this https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

nice read but doesnt say what rlo levels do to music, just movies. i listen to a variety of music.

ill mess around with the rlo. i listen loud so i dont think it matters which one i set it to.

 

[lovinthehd]

In Chris K's first post in that link:

0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.

15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.

10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.

5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range, such as classical music.

 

[bradymartin]

In Chris K's first post in that link:

0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.

15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.

10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.

5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range, such as classical music.

i read that but as i understand it, using rlo will lessen bass pretty much

 

[lovinthehd]

i read that but as i understand it, using rlo will lessen bass pretty much

It changes where the curve is referenced. It is only effective when using DynamicEQ, too. I thought you had mentioneed DEQ but now see you didn't, are you using that?

 

[bradymartin]

yeah i use dynamic eq

 

[lovinthehd]

yeah i use dynamic eq

Try Chris K's suggestions and see what you like.

 

[MrBoat]

I use pure direct for music but my AVR allows the sub to play as well. In PD, I limit the sub via the sub amp's dsp and let the L&R speakers run full range. I basically set the sub to 1.25-1.5 times the main speakers lowest output. If the main speakers are rated to 40hz, I would set the sub at 50-60hz.

Really a tough combination to beat if your room/speakers allow it.

 

[lovinthehd]

I use pure direct for music but my AVR allows the sub to play as well. In PD, I limit the sub via the sub amp's dsp and let the L&R speakers run full range. I basically set the sub to 1.25-1.5 times the main speakers lowest output. If the main speakers are rated to 40hz, I would set the sub at 50-60hz.

Really a tough combination to beat if your room/speakers allow it.

If the 3300 has something similar you might try it, or use LFE+Main to approximate the overlap Mr Boat enjoys.

 

[MrBoat]

If the 3300 has something similar you might try it, or use LFE+Main to approximate the overlap Mr Boat enjoys.

I do use CD stereo sometimes as well. Mostly for speakers that do actually rely on a subwoofer.

Sometimes in PD with the larger, lower reaching main speakers, I will EQ 'some' of the lowest bass output from the mains and let the overlap fill in that way or a blend of sorts in that area.

Just a different way to play with the controls.

 

[lovinthehd]

I do use CD stereo sometimes as well. Mostly for speakers that do actually rely on a subwoofer.

Sometimes in PD with the larger, lower reaching main speakers, I will EQ 'some' of the lowest bass output from the mains and let the overlap fill in that way or a blend of sorts in that area.

Just a different way to play with the controls.

Well, most speakers need a subwoofer to properly extend their range IMO but that more depends on the range you want to potentially cover, some don't care as much about the extreme ends. Few true full rangers out there that can do it at reference volumes and they're very expensive generally (altho of course your diy Fusion12s I believe are pretty damn good)
.

Absolutely, the various ways of controlling things just gives more ways to fine tune it to a preference which is really the final arbiter. I think it'd be worthwhile to experiment....eliminate overlap, or add it or various blendings....so you can appreciate the effect (and it will change over various content to boot). I think one of the best parts of an avr is the this flexibility. YMMV.

 

[MrBoat]

Well, most speakers need a subwoofer to properly extend their range IMO but that more depends on the range you want to potentially cover, some don't care as much about the extreme ends. Few true full rangers out there that can do it at reference volumes and they're very expensive generally (altho of course your diy Fusion12s I believe are pretty damn good)
.

Absolutely, the various ways of controlling things just gives more ways to fine tune it to a preference which is really the final arbiter. I think it'd be worthwhile to experiment....eliminate overlap, or add it or various blendings....so you can appreciate the effect (and it will change over various content to boot). I think one of the best parts of an avr is the this flexibility. YMMV.

I agree. I have a lot to learn yet with modern stuff, but that will be more likely when I have to upgrade, and by default of available, advanced features. Right now I'm dealing with stereo, which I am sure is much more forgiving.

The Fusion-12's have those killer 12" woofers that are able to handle the mid bass/range which is why it's a shame to cross them off at 80hz, at least on some genres of music. There's some lower bass notes on those speakers that are just too good to let pass. Of course that's the preference thing again. That Eminence Delta Pro has to be one of my favorite woofers of all time.

Many of these speakers are revealing. As such, we often have to choose better recordings, which is in great part why PD works at all. At least if room modes are not an issue. But then, Denon and the likes thought to include the feature, for some reason.

This all may change yet again once I get the twin RSS subs done

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thing to try is bumping up the sub level in the avr post-Audyssey, many of us do...2 to 4 dB or even more.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

denon x3300
klipsch rp 280s
hsu vtf2 mk5

in pure direct mode
bass is punchier and sounds a little deeper, more treble. maybe a tad bit louder. might even sound more alive

I use Audyssey Bypass L/R + Dynamic EQ because I get better bass from Bypass + DEQ than from Pure Direct. I also manually increase each channel level (digital trim) by +5.0dB.

I think the RLO set to Zero is good.

Another thing that most people don't think about to adjust that will affect Dynamic EQ is the digital trim levels (speaker channel levels).

When you manually increase each speaker channel level (like increase each level by +5.0), you will increase the effects of Dynamic EQ (punchier bass, etc.).

As already mentioned, also play around with the subwoofer channel level (Trim level). Boosting it by +3.0dB above the rest of the channels may also work well for you.

Also play around with LFE + Main.