Listening and Learning

[WmAx]

WmAx, given only an 8" woofer, what is the lowest practical frequency that you hear at the listening position?

In room F3 at the listening position is approximately 28 Hz.

WmAx, given that the speakers Jaxvon heard are already considered exceptional, even if your latest mock-up measures better than anything in the past, is it your opinion (do you know for a fact?) that you'll actually hear a difference. After all, the closer you get to perfection, the harder it must be to discern a difference

Well, over all, improvement will be small in some regards. But I expect the difference to be audible, even if only by a small margin. But note, this is also a bi-mode speaker. It can operate as both a superb characteristic monopole or virtual omnipole. Also, the SPL vs. Distortion vs. SPL is also an issue here. The new system will have at least 2x amplitude capability overall in the midrange-tweeter band, vs. the current system, monopole mode. Or 3-4x in virtual omnipole mode. It is expected that the bass section will have at least 4x the output. Monopole mode can be used as a demonstration between omnipole room interaction vs. monopole, with a flip of a switch or ust for tests of changing delay and/or bandwidth of the rear half radiation. Or, monopole mode can be used as a superb monitoring system, though this is redundant, as I already have an extraordinary monopole monitor system on my computer.

-Chris

 

[Buckle-meister]

The new system will have at least 2x amplitude capability overall in the midrange-tweeter band, vs. the current system, monopole mode. Or 3-4x in virtual omnipole mode. It is expected that the bass section will have at least 4x the output.

Why would you all of a sudden start listening to content louder than normal just because you're able to? This doesn't sound like your style at all. And if you're not, then who cares if the drivers can play louder?

Also, another question for you if you don't mind: What's the distance between your speakers and how far do you sit from them?

 

[WmAx]

Why would you all of a sudden start listening to content louder than normal just because you're able to? This doesn't sound like your style at all.

I did not say that I would listen louder. It's just one of the issues addressed in the new design. I designed the last one on the edge of required performance for most applications. The old system almost never approached THD problems or compression problems in use with safe SPL levels with music. The exception is a classical piece that I have that exhibits some compression as a large bass drum is hit and creates a 20+ dB peak relative to the average RMS level of the recording.

-Chris

 

[Buckle-meister]

I did not say that I would listen louder.

Oh WmAx, you're just no fun at all.

 

[WmAx]

Also, another question for you if you don't mind: What's the distance between your speakers and how far do you sit from them?

I'm sorry, I missed this question.

Measured from chest to midrange driver, roughly 7-7.5 feet (2.13-2.28 meters).

-Chris

 

[Buckle-meister]

...roughly 7-7.5 feet (2.13-2.28 meters).

Wow! This must place you roughly in the middle, longitudially speaking, of your room right? Is this purely a function of what is 'left' after the speakers have been drawn away from their boundaries as has the listening position to negate comb filtering and modal effects? In other words you virtually had no choice in where to sit; your room's limited size compels you to sit where you do?

 

[WmAx]

Wow! This must place you roughly in the middle, longitudially speaking, of your room right? Is this purely a function of what is 'left' after the speakers have been drawn away from their boundaries as has the listening position to negate comb filtering and modal effects? In other words you virtually had no choice in where to sit; your room's limited size compels you to sit where you do?

I am a few feet from center, but yes, somewhat near center, offset nearer to the back wall by about 25-30%. The room acoustic controls, seating position and loudspeaker positions within the room were chosen with only one purpose: the achieve the best sound quality. Obviously, such a speaker system would be extremely difficult to use in a multi-purpose room.

-Chris

 

[Buckle-meister]

The room acoustic controls, seating position and loudspeaker positions within the room were chosen with only one purpose: the achieve the best sound quality. Obviously, such a speaker system would be extremely difficult to use in a multi-purpose room.

Ah, so this truly is a dedicated 'listening room' and not also your living room?

 

[WmAx]

Ah, so this truly is a dedicated 'listening room' and not also your living room?

Dedicated listening room is correct.

-Chris

 

[Sheep]

Dedicated listening room is correct.

-Chris

He also speaks in Binary!

SheepStar

 

[Buckle-meister]

He also speaks in Binary!

Didn't you mean "He 10 speaks in binary!"?

 

[dem beats]

Didn't you mean "He 10 speaks in binary!"?

Listin man, not eveyone gets you.

there are only 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand bianry, and those that don't.

 

[yettitheman]

Wise and very true words you have said jaxvon.

May have been said by others but one of my quotes is, "We can always listen to learn more, and learn how to listen more."





^(probably sig worthy )

 

[jaxvon]

Since the two speakers mentioned almost certainly weren't listened to in WmAx's room how can you make this comparison?

...

A little dramatic Jaxvon. Good review though.

Well, you will note the parenthetical in that paragraph, "however unscientific". As you have pointed out, my comparison is worthless in terms of scientific value, but I figured that people would ask for comparisons, so there they are. I would wager that the upper end Vandersteen speakers would outclass the 'lowly' 2CE Signatures that I mention, but I am 100% certain that would not outclass WmAx's speakers, again due to the much greater dispersion and proper room acoustics. When comparing a monopolar speaker to the one I reviewed, the difference is not a nuance, it is definitely night and day. I mean that in the sense that it is the difference between listening to a really good recording and being transported to the original performance. I would wager that even the untrained listener could perceive this vast of a difference. Still, thanks for pointing that out. I tried to make a point that the comparisons were obligatory, seeing how it is a speaker review, but perhaps it wasn't clear. I sure hope it is now!

 

[krabapple]

WmAx has taken the work of Toole/Olive/NRC as one of his guideposts for loudspeaker design...I'm wondering for those of us of similar inclination,but no speaker-building inclinations, which commercial products come closest to such design goals? I'm guessing perhaps something in the Mirage line (explicity based on NRC work)? Or maybe the upper end JBLs (Toole worked for Harman)? WmAx, did you look into this before you decided to build your own?

FWIW, after some years I'm getting a bit bored with my standard-tech speakers (NHT SuperOnes), and have begun to consider something more 'omnipolar' too. I've got to stick with sat/sub configurations (5.1) for various reasons -- no floorstanders -- so I'm thinking of the Mirage Omnisats for a real change of pace.