Lexus ESh vs Avalon limited?

[Adam]

How has the service been on the ford, I am kind of reluctant to buy ford since we had some bad luck with them in the past...

Decent, but it's rattled since I drove it off the lot, and they've never been able to fix it. Able, willing, whichever. It still rattles.

Except for the rattles, I've been happy with it. It's got a comfortable ride, nice interior, good pickup, and good gas mileage. I am thinking about moving into a more "premium" brand next time because I've heard good stories about how customers are treated when they bring a car in for service. I'd probably buy a Tesla except that there's no dealer here, and I don't know how much hassle it would be to get it serviced. I don't want to have to drive to Phoenix for maintenance.

 

[ImcLoud]

Decent, but it's rattled since I drove it off the lot, and they've never been able to fix it. Able, willing, whichever. It still rattles.

Except for the rattles, I've been happy with it. It's got a comfortable ride, nice interior, good pickup, and good gas mileage. I am thinking about moving into a more "premium" brand next time because I've heard good stories about how customers are treated when they bring a car in for service. I'd probably buy a Tesla except that there's no dealer here, and I don't know how much hassle it would be to get it serviced. I don't want to have to drive to Phoenix for maintenance.

I think service differs dealership to dealership more than brand to brand, here we have a dealership that sells all high end new cars, BMW, Benz, audi, infinity, Maserati, Acura, Porche, Bentley, ect.. Its called the Inskip Automall, I bought a couple cars there and thought the after purchase service was terrible.... Now with Toyota we have a dealership here my wife loves to go to, they have a salon built into the service department so the ladies can get mani pedi's for free {although nothing is free because my wife leaves them a $50 tip, imagine my face the first time I seen that}, sandwich shops, ect. Other toyota dealerships don't have anything, some have free ice cream like the GM dealer where I buy my trucks... I think it depends on the dealership itself.. As for how you get treated I have been treated good in most places so far, personally, although in the Ritz dealerships I have noticed if you don't wear a suit and tie the sales staff tends to blow you off a little...
When I bought my first BMW I pulled up in one of my service trucks and walked around for over 10 minutes and no one came up to me, a guy in a Audi convertible pulls up with a suit on and some shiny shoes and someone was asking him what he was looking for within 2 minutes... ME STILL STANDING THERE!!! So I was about to leave when a younger guy that you can tell just came back from lunch {he was actually throwing his subway wrapper away} spotted me and jogged over, turned out to be one of the nicest car salesmen I ever dealt with. I ended up paying invoice which is rare for a future model year BMW {like buy a 2015 now} and he gave me tons of perks, I think I got like 8 oil change vouchers, 2 $50 gas cards, and a dinner gift certificate {that I gave back to him}...
Now when I walk in a toyota, chevy, Honda, ect dealership its a race to take care of me, no matter what I am wearing, I can be in paint covered overalls and they come running...

PS I had a dodge diesel truck that rattled, the dealership told me they couldn't fix it all of them did it and if I could fix it they would pay for it, I ended up having my mechanic pull the dash board and fix it, he cut rubber squares and installed them over every bolt point and installed dyna shield while it was apart, as well as zip tied and put covers over a bunch of wire looms, once it went back together it never rattled again, the dealership paid for it, I think it was around $450...

 

[gene]

The little Lexus Hybrid car as well as the Acura ILX Hybrid driver pretty poorly for their asking price. IMO they are NOT worth the gas savings. I did have a Volkswagen Jetta TDI Diesel Sportswagen that averaged 40MPG and drove better than the Acura and Lexus Hybrids but Diesel fuel is pricey and the interior space was a bit too small for family driving. Most Hybrids aren't worth the premium IMO.

If you're going to spend this much, get something with decent fuel economy but a great driving experience. I just picked up a 2014 Lexus IS350F. Nice ride.

If you want better fuel economy, lease an A4 or 328i but the lease payment will be roughly $60/mo more than the Lexus and thus the gas savings go out the window at that point.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I just picked up a 2014 Lexus IS350F. Nice ride.

That is a nice ride. Excellent choice.

Agree on your hybrid philosophy. Eco-hybrids are for status-seekers, IMO, although a friend with a hybrid Chevy Tahoe claims that in city driving he saves a lot on gas versus the gasoline-only version.

Sports car hybrids, like the Porsche 908, look interesting. When the technology comes down below six figures I'll be tempted.

 

[ImcLoud]

Congrats on the new ride Gene, I looked at them in the dealership, they were moving one out of the showroom when I was there, super quiet but it wasn't an F, very sexy car...

I think we are going with the toyota avalon, the dealership owner called me with a super deal, he has the same car in black with black interior, loaded past toyota specs {means they added stuff like window tint, invisible antenna, KN air filter and cabin filters, built in radar detector, ect}, the total of this car is $50K. It was a demo he put together for his wife, she put 3100 miles on it and it has never been titled {dealer plates, the perks of owning a dlrship} so it will still be a new car... He said I can have it for $36K cash!!! I told him 35 and I will come tomorrow, he said he needs time to get the new car ready for his wife, but he will have it there by the weekend... I think that is the way to go... He said its a Limited and has every option and package, remote start, lighted sills, power sun visor, nav, heated and cooled seats, ect, plus all the other stuff that toyota doesnt sell like the built in radar detector, KN lifetime filters, tint, ect... 3100 miles isnt much, and to save that much money, the car is still new never titled, it wont matter much, he said it is spotless in and out with not a scratch anywhere, he said if I find a scratch they will fix it in or out.....


As far as the hybrid being cost effective, if you know me you know I am a d!ck when it comes to spending money, it has to make some kind of sense...
So here is my rationalization for the hybrid..
First- want to be able to fit in my wifes car... This used to be less important when I constantly worked but I am cutting back A LOT, recent life events have taught me a few things about life and in fast order. I will NEVER work another week over 40 hours, I have been averaging 70 for a long time, and no longer taking it home {well that one is going to wait for the first of the year, that will take a resolution to make happen}...
Second- my wife is weird, she wants a hybrid so she can feel like she is better than her sisters, lol... I don't know what it is, she will spend 20 minutes shooing a fly out of the house vs zapping it with the electronic fly swatter, and when I zap one she rolls her eyes and can not watch, lol... She hasn't eaten meat since she was 7 years old!!! Just an odd duck...
Third-The hybrids are nice cars, I wont deny that. My wife has been driving Priuses since they came out, they are deadly silent, they go for 300K miles with ease, oil changes are $9, 4 tires are $120 mounted, brakes are $19 a set, ect..

The avalon is much nicer than a Prius, its big inside, has tons of options {we are talking limited with every option and every accessory on the list, lighted door sills, remote start, radar cruise control, ect ect ect}, very attractive outside {factory wheels are ugly and small}, sound system is really nice for factory, I would compare it to most any car I ever sat in for what it is... As far as power it has as much as a early 90's mustang or camaro, lol. 205 hp or something like that... It is in no way a slow car, it goes along fine, the prius makes my wife happy so this thing should do just fine...

Now for the "upcost" of the hybrid vs the gas only vehicle... I just did the math today, it comes out to being $1720 more, my wife drives to work 4 days per week, she works 49 miles from the house, so call it 100 miles per wk day times 4 work days per week equals 400 miles per week... Obviously she drives more than this but just for round numbers lets say she averages 500 miles per week... that is 26000 miles per year round it down to 20K per year since she drives the jeep when there is snow on the ground... So with fuel at $3.85 per gallon, and calculating the difference between the 2 cars strictly in fuel, never mind oil changes cost less and aren't needed as often, the toyota v6 likes premium and the hybrid runs on 87, the car will last much longer, resale value is higher, ect.. The hybrid will save a minimum of $1155 per year on fuel alone, so the price difference between the cars is $1720, less than 2 years pays for the difference... She will probably keep the car for 4 years if not longer.... So financially it makes sense to go with the hybrid...

 

[Adam]

Eco-hybrids are for status-seekers...

If there's one thing I'm not...it's a status seeker.

I was curious about the technology, and I've been an eco-head for decades. That, and the Fusion hybrid wasn't that high of a premium, considering that the hybrid came standard with a lot of features that were options on the lower models.

That, and I save a good $400-$500/year on gas versus my Prelude, which was already pretty good at 30 mpg. I didn't buy it for the savings, but since I tend to keep cars for a while, it's not a bad financial decision.

 

[Irvrobinson]

If there's one thing I'm not...it's a status seeker.

I was curious about the technology, and I've been an eco-head for decades. That, and the Fusion hybrid wasn't that high of a premium, considering that the hybrid came standard with a lot of features that were options on the lower models.

That, and I save a good $400-$500/year on gas versus my Prelude, which was already pretty good at 30 mpg. I didn't buy it for the savings, but since I tend to keep cars for a while, it's not a bad financial decision.

Yeah, I should have put a smiley after that status-seeker comment. I know you're not, Adam. I gotta get that engage-brain-then-mouth (or keyboard) thing right more often.

 

[ImcLoud]

If you want better fuel economy, lease an A4 or 328i but the lease payment will be roughly $60/mo more than the Lexus and thus the gas savings go out the window at that point.

I can't bring my self to lease a car, a good friend of ours does this, $7K due at signing, $400 a month, then you cant go over 15K miles per year, you have to fix any damage, ect {I know all agreements are different}, but I would rather pay for the car, drive it how I want to how far I want without worrying about penalties, then sell it in 4 years vs handing it back and getting nothing for it, except a bill in some cases...
For example the Lexus GS350 you can buy that car locally for $47K, the lease is 27 months less than 10K miles per year and $409 per month with $3000 due at signing.... That car costs you $520 per month for 27 months and on the 27 month you own nothing.... SO now instead of doing that... Buy a Chevy Cruz pay the same 3k down and $409 per month for 27 months, it will be paid off by the end {You can buy them for around $15K} and at the end of the 27 months own the car, now if you only put 10K miles per year and kept it perfect like you would need to do for a lease the car will still sell for around $12K {its like buying a 2012 now with 25K miles on it}... So you get that $12K and invest it with another $3K and another $409 per month and this time buy sometime nicer that holds even more value, with in 5 years on the third time around you will have an even nicer car... After a while you will be able to OWN a $50K Lexus, not borrow one for $520 a month.. If you just keep leasing term after term you will NEVER own a car...

One of my employees wanted to lease a car, she said because she only drove X amount it made sense for her.... So at the time it was like $4850 down and $399 a month 36 months, 12K miles per year.. I could buy the car outrite for under $35K.... So I told her I'll buy the car, she can drive it for 3 years and pay me $4850 down and $400 per month plus insurance and taxes, and in 3 years hand it back to me.... She did that math and said "then you get a 3 year old Acura with 36K miles on it for $15K" I said exactly, so I win and you get the same exact thing as the dealership will give you except I will have cheaper insurance and not charge you if you go over the miles a little or get a few scratches".. She looked up what the same car except 3 years old was worth, it was around $26K, so she seen I would make around $10K for loaning out $30K {after her down payment} for 3 years with $400 coming back monthly!!! NOT TOO SHABBY.... Long story Long she bought the car with a 0.9% rate and still has it.. She also has NOT stayed under 12K miles in a year...


If you own a business or claim your vehicle for tax purposes ad don't have the capital to buy what you need, a lease can make sense. Say you deliver something and need a van but can't afford the van lease it and write it all off, but as soon as you can afford it buy it and let your business own it as an asset...

I know most people lease because they want a really expensive car for $400 a month, but its just bad business, drive what you can afford and in time you will get ahead... Now if you have no kids to leave anything too and know you wont live to retirement age, go ahead lease away, rent an apartment, live off credit cards, die in debt and have a great life living beyond your means, BUT if you have a couple kids you would like to leave some assets to I recommend against it...



Adam is such a status seeker, As soon as I read that I thought, yup that is Adam, always bragging about his new fancy faucets and amazon reviewer status. It gets sickening

 

[Adam]

Adam is such a status seeker, As soon as I read that I thought, yup that is Adam, always bragging about his new fancy faucets and amazon reviewer status. It gets sickening

Sadly, I just talk about them because I like faucets...



Oh, and I got another video review of a faucet put up yesterday, btw.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Lexus all the way, man.

It's not just the status. And there is nothing wrong with desiring status. But it is also the service. When you own a Lexus, Lexus service treats you like a VIP. Toyota service does not treat you like a VIP even if you buy a $80K Landcruiser, which is basically a Lexus LX.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just picked up a 2014 Lexus IS350F.

Congrats!

Looks sooooooooooooooooooooooooo sweet.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can't bring my self to lease a car

I could never lease a car either. I like to feel that I actually own it.

 

[ImcLoud]

Lexus all the way, man.

It's not just the status. And there is nothing wrong with desiring status. But it is also the service. When you own a Lexus, Lexus service treats you like a VIP. Toyota service does not treat you like a VIP even if you buy a $80K Landcruiser, which is basically a Lexus LX.

Toyota treats me well, I have yet to see the lexus dealer with a free sandwich shop, nail salon, massage parlor all available for free while you wait for service, or even if you don't need service that day just show your toyo card... Also around here getting the owner of the lexus dealership to call you would be improbable, I have spoke to the owner of 3 toyota dealerships...
I agree lexus is a nice vehicle, but it is in essence a toyota, so to pay more for some wood grain and an L badge is silly to me... Although now the prices are very similar.. If I could get a really good deal on the esh I would go that way but the lexus dealerships dont want to deal with prices, they want to give you the price and send you on your way...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree lexus is a nice vehicle, but it is in essence a toyota, so to pay more for some wood grain and an L badge is silly to me... Although now the prices are very similar.. If I could get a really good deal on the esh I would go that way but the lexus dealerships dont want to deal with prices, they want to give you the price and send you on your way...

Yeah, it comes down to the dealership and price.

The Lexus has 1YR more warranty, right? 4YR bumper vs 3YR bumper?

I would still be willing to pay $3K more for the Lexus.

 

[ImcLoud]

Yeah, it comes down to the dealership and price.

The Lexus has 1YR more warranty, right? 4YR bumper vs 3YR bumper?

I would still be willing to pay $3K more for the Lexus.

I know you would, your just as bad as Adam with the Quest for status...

OK so I just made the deal...

Here's what we got, I talked to the dealership owner again...

So he offered his wife's car with all the options for $36K... BUT it is a Demo... So I offered $36K, BUT he puts all of them bells and whistles in a brand new zero mile unit...
So this is what we settled on...
2014 Hybrid Avalon Limited, 0 miles with full technology package, black with black leather, wheels locks, rear bumper protector, glass break sensor, lighted sills, and remote engine starter. That makes the Sticker Price $45,500, then dealer add ons of 35% window tint {we have to make an apptmnt to get it done after we take delivery}, Built in Passport 9500ci with custom mirror display, he told me they install it in the vehicle and you can't tell its there, even the display is hidden inside the mirror so it glows through the rear view, supposedly a $1200 unit, he is also installing KN filters, and a few other little touches.... He also gave me the option of wood interior inserts {wood grain stickers} lol, which I passed on...

The entire package in a brand new car for $37K, I don't think I am going to get treated better anywhere else $15K off of sticker price!!! Granted I do a lot of business with him and I have sent him quite a few customers over the years, I think I am happy with this deal... Well I already had my office manager send over a check and we pick up the car tomorrow so I better be happy, lol... I hope my wife likes it...

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Congrats Imc!

One trick with dealerships is to find out what's got trunk money or hold back. Basically, the dealership gets a 'bonus' for selling the car from the factory to help move them for next model year, etc. If you know what has trunk money, can negotiate a lot better, and even get it passed on to you.

If you want better fuel economy, lease an A4 or 328i but the lease payment will be roughly $60/mo more than the Lexus and thus the gas savings go out the window at that point.

Nod. With my short commute I find direct fuel cost to be near negligible in my personal finance compared to car ownership costs. When oil prices rise, and gas prices rise at the pump, there isn't much of a difference for me each month.. The same can't be said for business freight or even food prices, but, gas.. *shrug*

 

[ImcLoud]

Congrats Imc!

One trick with dealerships is to find out what's got trunk money or hold back. Basically, the dealership gets a 'bonus' for selling the car from the factory to help move them for next model year, etc. If you know what has trunk money, can negotiate a lot better, and even get it passed on to you.

Thanks, It looks with the avalon limited you get $1000 rebate, and there is an $870 hold back with another $376 they can play with. Now of course you don't want this behind msrp you want it behind invoice... So invoice is around $41200 minus the hold back, c money and rebate puts you at $38,954... Which would be a good price... A good trick is to try and get 16% off of msrp and within 10% of KBB on your trade in.... It looks like I got about 27% off the msrp which satisfies me...

 

[gene]

I could never lease a car either. I like to feel that I actually own it.

I hear what your saying and it kinda bugs me. Especially since I really like the car so at the end of the lease if I choose to buy it then the deal isn't so great like it would have been if I would have bought it straight out. I did this as an experiment b/c I feel the car industry is in a transition right now waiting to make appealing hybrids or electric cars that handle. My thought is in 3 years Tesla will have an affordable battery car and the Lexus RC will be more fuel efficient and possibly more appealing to own than my IS350F. I dunno, cars are a waste of money but man I do get a kick out of driving it, especially when I'm by myself and can be in my own little world

 

[Adam]

Congrats, Irv! Sounds like a sweet deal. I wish I had your bargaining skills. Maybe I should go shopping for a car now when I have zero desire for one...easy to walk away.

 

[walter duque]

Good choice. I have had good luck with both Lexus and Toyota.