Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

S

Snakeoil

Banned
I believe reviews can be bias even if numbers are posted. Graphs can be smoothed, data manipulated to make a product appear better than it is (I'm not saying that is the case with Audioholics). Any one review site should be taken with a grain of salt.
The only sites that would do this would be the high end reviewers who are paid to "review" the equipment.
 
B

B3Nut

Audioholic
A bit late to the party I am, but still....wow. I could see a nosebleed small-potatoes shop doing this, but a Harman company? That's amazing...kudos to AH for telling it like it is!

Todd in Cheesecurdistan
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It's really nice to read an honest review especially with all the fluff out there.

I just bought my Oppo last month, but I really like that aluminum faceplate ;)

Thanks AH
Maybe they'll sell you just that plate;):D Or, have a high res picture and have a machine shop make one for you:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
All;

THX sent me another followup email based on the Oppo comments I added yesterday. I added their comments as shown below:
Incidentally THX also personally invited me to come out to their facility sometime during the next few months to take a tour and discuss their certification program. Perhaps I can also nudge them to start testing the analog outputs of these players as well. Fingers crossed.
Great. And, if conditions warrant, may want to remind them that they do certify audio products as well. So, just because the BD player was or is THX certified for video performance, it also has an audio chain that may degrade an THX setup as it doesn't meet their specs.:D

Now I wonder though if a THX certified receiver is checked and certified for its video performance to meet whatever portions would apply to the receiver portion of that video capability. If not, maybe THX needs to revisit what and how they certify?
 
Todd Sauve

Todd Sauve

Audiophyte
On second thought, I have been unfair to Einstein, dipsticks and Jethro Bodeen.

The Home Theater Review pair I mentioned previously are simply two guys who don't know what they are talking about. Yet they offer opinions on products that they simply don't know enough about to discuss competently. Then they call a $3000 aluminum chassis a good investment and fair deal. And then go ballistic when taken to to task for it.

Do you think this kind of "business practise" is what has us all in this current economic meltdown???
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
i'd pay about 150usd for a billet aluminum front panel and chassis that has my name on it :) and tons of LED lights that blink that has nothing to do with what it's actually doing.
 
B

bogrod

Junior Audioholic
I think its a little hard to get spun up about this because Lexicon really didn't lie about anything they just stretched the truth. This is a perfect case of buyer beware. Lexicon didn't hurt people like an AV123 thing. Anyone who bought this thought they were paying $3500 for one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market and they got that. They just didn't know that they could have gotten it on sale. :)
I doubt there would have been one tenth the "outrage" if Lexicon had done something to add to or modify the internal parts. Most people who are knowledgable about hifi know that some of the smaller companies buy other units, but they modify them.

That is why I do not feel there is anything to defend Lexicon over this. They didn't even bother taking the parts out of the Oppo and putting them into their own chassis.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
Originally Posted by Johnny2Bad
Lexicon adds a more robust chassis. Regardless of the intrinsic value of those parts, it may help with certain aspects of audio performance (or it may not, but my experience is it often does).
Really? Do you have any proof for this?
Well, I'm not sure what would satisfy you in the way of "proof". I said "certain aspects of audio performance". and I didn't make a claim that the Lexicon version enjoys a benefit. I said it might or it might not. I've never seen the Lexicon in person, and I probably never will, so I'm not going to make absolute statements about what it definitely does or does not do. I do feel I'm free to offer conjecture, so I did.

But, taking your question at face value, with equipment I do have direct experience with, I'll bite.

I will give one example, but it isn't a matter of one-size-fits-all. A good chassis can offer benefits on a number of fronts.

Electromagnetic Interference is one rather obvious example. A well shielded piece of electronics not only is less susceptible to EMI and other radio interference, it radiates less interference to other devices that may have less than perfect shielding.

Introducing a "leaky" device into an audio chain can adversely affect components that otherwise performed better when the new thing wasn't around, while preventing EMI from affecting the component under test is just good design practice.

Ever notice that you can't really buy a "modded" computer from a mainstream manufacturer? Take out the shielding and replace it with a plexi window, and it no longer meets FCC specs and can't legally be sold, because computers by their nature emit a lot of EMI.

That's why people mod them as a hobby, or if you do buy such a computer, it's from a shop that assembles them from components they sell. A bare case does not have to meet an FCC standard; it has no electronics in it out of the box. Those shops don't submit the assembled end product to the FCC. They wouldn't dare, actually, but nobody expects them to either.

If you look at broadcast equipment, where the environment pretty much has to contain a huge amount of gear, and where small signals are amplified (eg microphones & mic cabling), where cable runs are bundled, run parallel, are connected in patch bays with adjacent connectors that are "too close" but that can't be helped much, and where crosstalk is a constant issue, they are shielded at multiple levels. Individual parts inside are shielded, stages inside the unit are shielded, the casework is built around them with more shielding. They do that because it works.

Although you can "overkill" anything, it's hard to overkill shielding. It's one of the rare cases when too much is just enough. There are lots of people who have fought with the cab company's dispatcher coming over the stereo, where the wifi dies every time the neighbor across the hall pops a bowl of soup into the microwave or the portable phone rings. All audio components are dealing with small signals at some point and they are all vulnerable to EMI; the ones that shrug it off the best have robust shielding on all six sides and usually more inside. To do shielding right, the material has got to be metal.

Any audio component that is mechanical in nature is also susceptible to vibration; everyone knows someone whose CD player can't handle the bumps. Mass helps here. (Okay, two examples).

And so on.

I don't know if that comprises "proof" to you or not. But, it's not like it was my idea; the concept has a wide level of acceptance by people smarter than me, and was being taught to engineers when the hottest plane an airline could buy came with a prop.
 
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Ares

Ares

Audioholic Samurai
Ken finally replied about his review on HTR.

* By Ken Taraszka, MD


Wow!

Thanks for all the interest in this one. Obviously some major issues have arisen since this review was submitted, I will do my best to address each of them as concisely as possible. I have been sick with the Flu for the last week so have not been as active on this thread as I would have liked!

Jim,
Yes, you are correct the Oppo does come with test discs as well, though I prefer DVE.

Hog,
1. This is the real question every one is wondering, so I will spend most of my time here. First, as I stated in the review, I did perform minor adjustments to my set using DVE on the Lexicon prior to any comparisons. While I used the identical HDMI cable and power cord for both players (Lex BD 30 and Oppo BD-83 SE), it is possible that each player has a slightly different output, and perhaps I should have re-done DVE in the Oppo prior to the comparison, but I did such minor changes to my display it didn’t seem necessary at the time. This alone could account for the slight differences I saw.

Did I see a difference? Yes, I repeated the first scene from Underworld Evolution and STILL find the Lexicon to be slightly better, especially with the purple hue to the marauder’s hair, on the Oppo it seems over done while the Lexicon makes it seem like actual sheen off dark hair.

How is this possible? I have the two units, and I have re-run this scene a dozen times, the Lex looks better, albeit slightly as I stated in the review. I posed the idea of a rebadged Oppo to Lexicon and received this statement in an Email;

"We worked with both Oppo and with their sub-assembly supplier as partners. We requested and obtained numerous changes from what was then the standard Oppo unit. In fact, 40% of the cost of the BD-30 is American content, and it is made in Elkhart IN. The units have gone through a very thorough engineering effort in Elkhart to confirm performance and reliability."

And

"They do thorough tests for performance on each and every unit as a part of production"

Did Lexicon just do better QC than Oppo?

Tough to say.

I can be sure the drive noise is not just the better case, but it is possible that a more solid casing could lessen vibration and improve performance.

I can say unequivocally that the drive was SILENT on the Lexicon, this even if I put my ear up to the chassis as it loaded or spun up discs, my Oppo was noisy as I stated, since then Oppo has sent me a replacement but due to my recent Flu I haven’t unboxed it to compare.

2. I cannot comment on the THX issue.

Fatherom, I believe the comment you are referring to was posted in the comments section and was deleted (even my posts were removed!). See above for the THX issue.

I hope this helps answer some of the questions, certainly the two units are marketed towards totally different markets, there are many with sick level home theaters who simply hate seeing a cheap plastic player in their rig, and I can see why. The case of the Lexicon is beautiful and the buttons far superior to the Oppo’s, albeit at a significantly elevated price.

Let me be clear, I DID THE REVIEW!

I have re-done my viewing tests and STILL STAND BY what I saw! To me, the Lexicon DID have a slight edge over the Oppo BD-83 SE in video performance. Is this edge worth the added cost? Only you can decide what to spend your money on, and for most I am sure the Oppo is all they will ever want/need (there, I said it again!) but for those who want the absolute nth level of refinement, their is the Lexicon.

Ken
Now does this answer the question everybody. :rolleyes::D
 
BigSkreen

BigSkreen

Junior Audioholic
The only sites that would do this would be the high end reviewers who are paid to "review" the equipment.
I agree but almost all sites get money from advertizers whose products the review. A good consumer will do their homework.
 
BigSkreen

BigSkreen

Junior Audioholic
I doubt there would have been one tenth the "outrage" if Lexicon had done something to add to or modify the internal parts. Most people who are knowledgable about hifi know that some of the smaller companies buy other units, but they modify them.

That is why I do not feel there is anything to defend Lexicon over this. They didn't even bother taking the parts out of the Oppo and putting them into their own chassis.
But no matter what anyone believes in the end they are a company trying to make a profit. They are not my friend trying to give me a great deal.

From a financial standpoint this makes sense. The get a low cost unit that requires little to no engineering that they can get THX certified and sell for a profit. From a PR standpoint this was a nightmare and they are sure to lose customers.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Ah, there's the rub.

But no matter what anyone believes in the end they are a company trying to make a profit. They are not my friend trying to give me a great deal.

From a financial standpoint this makes sense. The get a low cost unit that requires little to no engineering that they can get THX certified and sell for a profit. From a PR standpoint this was a nightmare and they are sure to lose customers.
It wasn't "THX certified", at least in the expected context of that wording.

As it now stands, they hurt both themselves (big time, IMNSHO) and left THX with a at least a lot of 'splainin to do, Lucy.
 
F

Funboy

Audioholic Intern
1 - Amazing. I am proud of audioholics and their integrity.

2 - Are there any other websites other then audioholics worth reading? I don't want to switch, I want to read other websites as audioholics isn't reviewing enough products fast enough! Yes, they can't review everything, and so far I have found none - absolutely zero - as objective as audioholics. Any suggestions?
 
R

randyb

Full Audioholic
But no matter what anyone believes in the end they are a company trying to make a profit. They are not my friend trying to give me a great deal.

From a financial standpoint this makes sense. The get a low cost unit that requires little to no engineering that they can get THX certified and sell for a profit. From a PR standpoint this was a nightmare and they are sure to lose customers.
It may also hurt other companies using the Oppo platform for their own unit. I have to believe Krell, Ayre and others are trying to distance themselves and making sure they let everyone know how different their player is.....even if it really doesn't result in a visual or sonic difference.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
2 - Are there any other websites other then audioholics worth reading? I don't want to switch, I want to read other websites as audioholics isn't reviewing enough products fast enough!
I agree this is a big problem for us given the detail we put in our reviews and our small staff. I tried hiring additional reviewers but they haven't really panned out. If anyone has a good A/V background and a way to do objective measurements that also enjoys reviewing gear, feel free to email me at gds@audioholics.com.
 
davidtwotrees

davidtwotrees

Audioholic General
1 - Amazing. I am proud of audioholics and their integrity.

2 - Are there any other websites other then audioholics worth reading? I don't want to switch, I want to read other websites as audioholics isn't reviewing enough products fast enough! Yes, they can't review everything, and so far I have found none - absolutely zero - as objective as audioholics. Any suggestions?
The Audio Critic is an objectivist site. http://www.theaudiocritic.com/plog/
 

plhart

Audioholic
Cloned and rebadged: an insiders view

In the eighties, because of the dictates of modern assembly lines and the necessity to buy huge quantities of resistors, capacitors, etc. from parts suppliers, the magic minimum number for Yamaha in Japan was 5000 pieces of any given CD player model. With the advent of CD players in the early eighties Yamaha was one of the first companies to establish an satellite facility to produce OEM players branded for others. If memory serves that model was the CD-X1. By the time I visited Yamaha’s satellite facility in the mid-eighties they were rebadging CD-X3s for no less than six other manufacturers. (At the time Yamaha claimed they were supplying as many as eighteen re-badgees!)

Contrast the economies of scale realized by a 5000 pieces minimum of a given model to that of a typical ‘80s/’90s boutique amplifier manufacturer like Steve McCormack. I once heard Steve speaking at a dealer seminar wherein he bemoaned having to purchase parts for his minimum cost-effective production run - 1000 amplifiers. And that price differential, between buying 1000 parts packages (bills of material, BOMs) at a time versus 5000 parts packages was typically huge, especially for a US manufacturer who many times would be buying through a US-based (two-step) distributor.

This same cost bogey holds for California-based Oppo when they put out, for example, their BDP-83 Special Edition. The opt-times lower tolerance and/or “better sounding” parts used in the SE’s audio section are purchased in far lower quantities and far higher prices than those parts used in the standard edition BDP-83. This up-charge becomes exacerbated when you’re talking, for instance, about a special DAC whose superior sonic performance is recognized as a known performance enhancement. So is it any surprise to anyone that the BDP-83 SE costs $899.99 versus the standard BDP-83’s $499.99?

Gene’s measurement of the incorrect THX-specified 80Hz curve on the Lexicon/BDP-83 player is no surprise to this author. Nor was it a surprise when I saw Gene’s measured results when he first published the Oppo BDP-83 review. Gene is an electronics engineer. He is also a very honest guy. He publishes them like he measures them. Gene’s published curves on the BDP-83’s higher-than-80HZ roll-off curves reminded me of the same problems I encountered when designing Alesis Studio Electronics M1-Active and the Infinity Beta CSW-10 subwoofer.

- First off, when working with both of the aforementioned designs the impedance characteristics of both drivers in these two systems were known quantities. So we were working with an internal-to-the-speaker-amplified-system fixed and known impedence at 80Hz.

- Second, roll-off curves at 80Hz require very precise parts interactions among the parts used to implement the roll-off. At both Alesis and Infinity we found that we had to switch from ±20 % parts tolerance to ±5% parts tolerance. And that was with a speaker whose impedance and phase characteristics at 80Hz were known!

- Third, Oppo engineers know that when dealing with Asian-sourced parts that Asian suppliers always, always supply (for instance) a resistor or capacitor at the bottom tolerance limit of the part’s specified value. i.e. A ±20%, 100 microfarad capacitor might measure 81 microfarads whereas a ±5%, 100 microfarad cap might measure 95.5 microfarads.

- Fourth, during any given Asian production run Oppo’s OEM supplier may swap out that so-called and ± toleranced 100 microfarad cap from one manufacturer for a 100 microfarad cap from another manufacturer. In my experience, sometimes these suppliers will alert the American-based brand they are supplying this product to and other times they won’t.

Regarding the Lexicon clone of Oppo’s BDP-83 – There is no way Lexicon, whose engineering personnel ranks in the States have been decimated over the last few years could hope to field a $3500 Blu-Ray disc player and design it themselves. So the 5000 pieces quantity is out, as is the used-to-be-the-boutique-norm of 1000 pieces.

The box-within-a-box construction of the Lexicon/BDP-83 is a first in my experience. My guess is that Lexicon’s maximum projected life-cycle quantity for their BD-30 is 100 pieces...which they probably had to purchase up-front from Oppo. That means one guy at Lexicon probably drew the silkscreened artwork for the front and rear panels and the carton artwork. Another guy probably ordered the faceplates. And a third guy cuts the air holes out in Lexicon’s false bottom/front aluminum plate mount piece of sheet metal. The remaining cost differential (between the Oppo and the Lexicon) is the cost-of-sales within Lexicon’s distribution/pricing model.
 

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