Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

R

Rmorph

Enthusiast
Hi there,

I'm m - the guy in the HTR deleted posting that the HTR site owner accused of being a shill.

Im also hosting the deleted transcripts of those postings up on www dot stabbingpixies com which is my personal band site (sorry for the text formatting - its a global setting I cant switch off without ruining the site setup). Obviously my site was not built for hosting a raging debate on sonic accuracy.. its just a portal for some homemade music.

Anyway:

The HTR site owner has now started posting outside of HTR in an attempt to continue to paint me as a shill (I don't have enough posts under my belt to start posting URLs here, but the debate has started over at AVSforum - I've posted links to it at my site).
He's basically attacking my credibility as his defense, rather than answering the specific challenges that came up in the comments.

For the record - I don't so much care anymore if the Lex and the Oppo are the same. At this point its minor.

My original issue at HTR was with the laziness of the review, and the lack of clarification on important issues - which escalated when his unreasonable responses came into the discussions.

Now its simply about the ranting diatribe that the site owner has put about, and the unprofessional conduct of attacking me, and others like me, for trying to bring these issues to light.

It really is personal at this stage - so feel free to call me on predjudice.

Cheers,

Mike in Norway.
 
Ares

Ares

Audioholic Samurai
Hi there,

I'm m - the guy in the HTR deleted posting that the HTR site owner accused of being a shill.

Im also hosting the deleted transcripts of those postings up on www dot stabbingpixies com which is my personal band site (sorry for the text formatting - its a global setting I cant switch off without ruining the site setup). Obviously my site was not built for hosting a raging debate on sonic accuracy.. its just a portal for some homemade music.

Anyway:

The HTR site owner has now started posting outside of HTR in an attempt to continue to paint me as a shill (I don't have enough posts under my belt to start posting URLs here, but the debate has started over at AVSforum - I've posted links to it at my site).
He's basically attacking my credibility as his defense, rather than answering the specific challenges that came up in the comments.



For the record - I don't so much care anymore if the Lex and the Oppo are the same. At this point its minor.

My original issue at HTR was with the laziness of the review, and the lack of clarification on important issues - which escalated when his unreasonable responses came into the discussions.

Now its simply about the ranting diatribe that the site owner has put about, and the unprofessional conduct of attacking me, and others like me, for trying to bring these issues to light.

It really is personal at this stage - so feel free to call me on predjudice.

Cheers,

Mike in Norway.
Mike I have read what you have wrote and in noway do I think you were wrong you ask questions to which you did not get answers to, but instead he kept asking you for your real name because M was not good enough for him. I felt like I was watching Ballroom Dancing because this guy danced around every legitimate question and after you gave your name and your email he had nothing left to say but call you a shill then when that wouldn't get you off his back he deleted everything. You didn't back down and asked questions,for that you have earned my respect.

P.S. here is a link to Mike's site: http://www.stabbingpixies.com/
 
smurphy522

smurphy522

Full Audioholic
That article was, without a doubt, the best I have read from your site in years - maybe the best ever!

Thank you.

Persue the Truth!
 
T

Tom Cecc

Audioholic Intern
It's really nice to read an honest review especially with all the fluff out there.

I just bought my Oppo last month, but I really like that aluminum faceplate ;)

Thanks AH
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Regarding Jerry's comments about the Audioholics E-store

I just posted this on AVS:

The following quote was sent to me via a PM which was published by Jerry on his website.

"Re: Audioholics.com - I cite the fact that they are a store because it speaks to their motives as to why they do what they do. They benefit from selling Oppos (no shipping costs - a good deal) not the Lexicon. I have no beef with Audioholics.com directly its just that they are crossing what I believe to be an important line for a publication. Amazon does reviews but never alleges to be anything other than a store."
I do not know Jerry personally. Until now, I have had no prior dealings with him or his publication. I have no desire to get into a pissing match with him on this forum or my own or even here for that matter. Since he is attacking the credibility of my publication solely on the grounds that we have an E-store, I will address his concerns here with a single post on the topic. I will not continue this discussion in this thread out of respect to the ADMIN's of this site whom are trying to keep this thread on topic rather than slinging mud or making false accusations.

Yes we were fortunate enough to be on the radar of some big investors wanting to launch an E-store using the Audioholics name 2 years ago. Prior to launching the E-store we posted the following article:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/audioholics-storefront-2013-breaking-the-rules

It's true this has never been done by another publication and I can certainly understand how some critics perceive this as breaking the rules in doing so. However, what some may not realize is that the Audioholics E-store is run completely independent from the Editorial site. We occasionally provide them brand suggestions to integrate into the E-store based on our experiences with products and companies we've worked with in the past. In the case of Oppo, it made a lot of sense to offer their products in the E-store b/c they work well, they support their products, and they are a good value. Because of the slim margins however, nobody gets rich selling their players which is why its understandable for other companies to repackage them at a higher profit margin and sell them through different channels.

If Jerry's argument about our articles bias because of the E-store has any substance, then why would we publish an article on the Oppo that shows many of its design deficiencies?

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/oppo-bdp-83se

I can assure you we won no points with Oppo publishing this article but they respect our findings and are now working on solutions to fix the issues we noted.

Just like we won no points with Yamaha publishing the following article using them as the primary example of trading amplifier quality for features:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/trading

Yamaha is not only an Audioholics E-store partner, but they are one of our biggest advertisers. Although they weren't happy with this article, they respect our opinion and our reporting on the good and the bad about their products.

Less than 5% of the products sold in the Audioholics E-store are actually reviewed by the Audioholics publication. A most recent product we reviewed that the Audioholics E-store sells can be seen here:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/microvee-sub

Notice the review isn't overly glowing or praising the product. Notice how I provide measurable results to allow the reader to decide if the product is right for them.

Regarding Advertising
As of last year nearly 70% of the Advertising on Audioholics is now sold through a 3rd party ad agency and/or Google. It is our goal to one day make this 100% to completely untether us from manufacturers and not have to deal with the pressures resulting from our style of reporting. We have lost numerous advertisers over the years because of this. Sure we could take the easy way out and not measure products we review, or write critically about them, but as an Electrical Engineer, that is not my nature. Some can argue I am not a good business man as a result. They are probably right.

Now one can easily make the argument that Jerry somehow biased his reviewer because Lexicon advertises on his site. I find the following comments someone posted on our forum about him quite interesting:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=676206&postcount=112

If we were to assume the above post is true, then we could also assume the up and coming NuForce modded Oppo review on his site will also be biased based on the fact that NuForce is also an advertiser on his site. Since he does no objective measurements or analysis that can further buttress the argument. Personally I'd like to think his reviewers are simply reporting their subjective findings of the products they've been asked to review and are completely out of the advertising/revenue loop of his site.

I do however find it distasteful that Jerry continues to attack the credibility of our site and simply skirts the tough questions that have been asked by either discussing the exotic cars he enjoys driving or discrediting our findings based on the Audioholics E-store.

I won't comment further about this topic on this thread so if anyone has any questions about the Audioholics E-store you can feel free to PM me or better yet contact the E-store directly to discuss with the store principals.
The thread is located here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166176&page=20&highlight=audioholics
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
THX Update

All;

THX sent me another followup email based on the Oppo comments I added yesterday. I added their comments as shown below:

On January 19th, 2010, THX sent us a second follow up email asking that we mention the fact that the BD-30 is capable of outputting PCM over HDMI which allows the new high definition audio formats to be reproduced on Lexicon rigs at the correct THX levels with preserved headroom.
Incidentally THX also personally invited me to come out to their facility sometime during the next few months to take a tour and discuss their certification program. Perhaps I can also nudge them to start testing the analog outputs of these players as well. Fingers crossed.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Gene, in view that the OPPO is now the base platform for other companies such as Ayre & NuForce, are there any plans to also examine those from both a functional (measurement) and what the case contains POV? Also, do the products that come in for review have to be provided by the manufacturer or can they be provided from a store that sells them?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Gene, in view that the OPPO is now the base platform for other companies such as Ayre & NuForce, are there any plans to also examine those from both a functional (measurement) and what the case contains POV? Also, do the products that come in for review have to be provided by the manufacturer or can they be provided from a store that sells them?
It's not a career goal for me but if anyone wants to submit an Oppo based BD player to me to have a look, I will certainly do that. I prefer to get a new player so nobody cries foul play that the unit was defective after we test it however.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
It's not a career goal for me but if anyone wants to submit an Oppo based BD player to me to have a look, I will certainly do that. I prefer to get a new player ...
Give Tom Andry a pay cut and just buy one. :eek: :D
 
S

Snakeoil

Banned
It's not a career goal for me but if anyone wants to submit an Oppo based BD player to me to have a look, I will certainly do that. I prefer to get a new player so nobody cries foul play that the unit was defective after we test it however.
I told serveral $10,000 ayre owners to get in contact with you but I doubt that will happen.

* By Jerry Del Colliano

Here is a link to the Audioholics article that started the controversy.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/t...ray-oppo-clone

While a well respected website, I think that it is important to note that Audioholics is a review publication AND a store. In their store they sell the Oppo player.

I guess the facts don't matter to this guy.
What would it matter or change if audioholics was in bed with oppo? NOTHING!

* By Jerry Del Colliano

Lastly,

A lot of people are outraged at the idea that a company would buy and repackage a transport to be marketed under their brand and sold through their distribution. I think that its more common that many people think. Most AV companies don't have the R&D to build their own transport or AV preamp so they go to OEM companies to buy the parts. They might tweak something here and or there but for the most part it could be very similar to other products on the market.

A Mercedes C-class is built on the same platform as a Dodge Seibring. A Porsche Cayenne is built on the same chassis the VW Toureag. Smaller Lexus have a lot in common with Toyota Camrys. My Dad's new Maserati Granturissimo has many of the same key parts as they Ferrari F430.

For those who don't want the upmarket chassis and for those connecting via HDMI - the Oppo is a KILLER solution for a LOT less money. For those who want a more fancy chassis and build quality - there is the Lexicon. Let the customers decide.
Fine, we know companies and almost all high end companies rebadge components but then where does this improved sound/video performance come from that is always raved about?

Johnny2Bad said:
Lexicon adds a more robust chassis. Regardless of the intrinsic value of those parts, it may help with certain aspects of audio performance (or it may not, but my experience is it often does).
Really? Do you have any proof for this?
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Any official statement from Lexicon yet?
........./\........../\........./\.......................................................
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
gene said:
........./\........../\........./\................................................. ......
That's just cold, but it's probably foreshadowing.

Edit: Am I the only one that's having a problem with posting with quotes here? When I press the reply button to a post nothing seems to happen yet I can clear the "Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply." from the message box and put in a message. If I check off the "Quote message in reply?" box it won't allow me to quote and I have to manually do it.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
fatherom said:
I don't get it... :) What are those supposed to be? Sharks?
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to resemble life signs on a heart monitor, but one might say that sharks are circling a big fat floating moron.
 
yettitheman

yettitheman

Audioholic General
I thought it was a bunch of ill-percieved thought processes being devised by Lexicon right about now... and the real dumb ideas are about to flow rapidly.
 
BigSkreen

BigSkreen

Junior Audioholic
Okay, call me crazy ... but I'm going to defend Lexicon here. Sort of.
I think this was a pretty insightful post. I agree with a lot of the points made and even learned a few things. I don't begrudge any company a profit. When Apple sells a iPhone charger for $35 I know that there are about $3 worth of components in that.

I think its a little hard to get spun up about this because Lexicon really didn't lie about anything they just stretched the truth. This is a perfect case of buyer beware. Lexicon didn't hurt people like an AV123 thing. Anyone who bought this thought they were paying $3500 for one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market and they got that. They just didn't know that they could have gotten it on sale. :)

Audioholics is a little unique in the fact that most people here are bang for the buck people. Not many people come in bragging about their pure quartz speaker boxes that cost them $50k. I see people bragging all the time about the great deal they got on an item. I think that is why there is so much outrage in this thread.

With that said I would never buy a Lexicon product although I was probably never in their demographic as far as consumer goes. I believe in supporting companies that are honest companies who are trying to deliver a good product to consumers.

I can also see why some people get angry about Audioholics having a store. Even if it is a separate entity it looks the same to most of us. I believe reviews can be bias even if numbers are posted. Graphs can be smoothed, data manipulated to make a product appear better than it is (I'm not saying that is the case with Audioholics). Any one review site should be taken with a grain of salt. What Tom may love in a feature I might hate. That is what I like about this site at the bottom of every review is a link to the forums. Having looked through here for a while I have no doubts that if a review is not up to standards people here will call it B.S. I think being able to question the reviewing standards and the discussion that follows makes everyone here a bit more knowledgeable.

Well except for me because I don't understand 90% of what you people say :D
 
Ares

Ares

Audioholic Samurai
What's got me upset is not that Con dropped the 83 in their casing,but that they have the nerve to charge $3500 for it and that some guy writes a review about it begin the best player on the market and that the blacks are better on it than the Oppo, When it is the exact same player just with a better casing. So you are paying 3k for the casing that's a rip off.
 
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