Last minute opinions sought - Should I keep my IPS-1?

[Adam]

Hey all,

I plan on calling Emotiva tomorrow to get an RMA number for my IPS-1. I'm still somewhat on the fence, so I'm wondering what people here think. I'm using the amp to power my center and rear speakers, and here are my thoughts on it:

Pros
1. Looks nice
2. Sounds good

Cons
1. Hums loudly when in standby mode (which baffles me - it's running an LED), but the hum is normal for that amp according to Lonnie
2. Using the signal sensor requires me to turn the volume up until a signal goes through all three used channels to trigger the amps, but the 12v trigger turns all seven amps on and keeps them on if I'm using surround mode or not, so there is no great way to just have the three used amps turn on consistently
3. When the amps are active, the speakers hooked to the IPS-1 hiss. The same is true when I power the speakers using my receiver, but my receiver shuts the surround channel amps off in stereo mode (whereas the IPS-1 remains on because it's not controlled by the receiver)​

In short, the cons combined lead me to turning the amp off whenever I'm not using surround sound and then turning it on when I am. It just seems like an unnecessary inconvenience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Adam

 

[adk highlander]

Adam,

Ugh, that really stinks I had no idea the hum was so audible to you. I understand your issues and I can't think of a suggestion that would say keep the amp. I do not get the hiss you describe through the non used channels when all are powered.

I know you were initially thinking of just getting a monoblock for your center. The bps-1's are down to 129. I don't know if that look works for you but it may be an option.

 

[Adam]

Thanks, adk. I appreciate it. I have thought about the BPA-1, but I've grown tired of Emotiva's lack of response to e-mails. I haven't sent that many, but when e-mails about a failed amp (my first RPA-1) or about getting an RMA number get no response, I lose patience. They are almost always very nice on the phone, but I can't always call during their office hours.

Just to clarify, the "hiss" is really fairly quiet when the amp is on by itself. However, when the receiver is on in stereo mode, the center channel hiss is louder - I know this is caused by a signal from the receiver, but it doesn't change the end result. Not really the amps fault, but a con of the set-up. That alone wouldn't cause me to return it, but it's just one more straw.

The hum may not bother other people and would almost surely be significantly muted if I had the amp behind a door. However, I sleep in the same room as the amp, and the hum is definitely noticeable and is louder than the hum from my RPA-1.

 

[adk highlander]

I think they have a really strong SPAM filter. I have never received a response from them by email. I always call and usually speak with Lonnie. I totally understand based on your experiences though.

So are you going to look at the Outlaw's or just take a break from amps for a while.

 

[cbraver]

Who is Lonnie? The reason I ask, is that a hum sounds like a ground loop problem, not a problem with the amplifier itself. Some products are more sensitive to these types of problems, but it's not really the amps fault. The first place to start looking for a ground loop problem is your cable or satilite box. Disconnect the coaxial cable running into it and see if the hum in your system goes away. Where the cable/sat is grounded might have a different voltage than what your equipment is running off of, and the hum is that difference in potential. The fix is a ground loop isolator between your incomming cable/sat and the cable/sat box. Now, you have to remove the coaxial to test it... just removing the power to the cable or sat box won't test if it's a ground loop problem - you must completely remove the box from the circuit (RCAs count as a connection!). If that's not it, explore other possibilities within your system by systematically testing each piece of equipment to see if it is the cause. If you can't determine another cause, it might very well be a problem with the amp. I doubt it though, based on your description of the problem.

Now, I'm not saying that's a good amp and that you shouldn't return it, I don't know anything about this Emotiva brand. To be honest though, it does raise a red flag that the majority of reviews they get is from Audioholics, which seems to have some brands the forum falls overly in love with. A few subwoofer brands come to mind. Just a word of caution, again, not saying the amp is a poor product (I've never heard it before).

 

[Seth=L]

Are you using the receiver to power the fronts? It seems to me that the front left and right speakers will require the most power for music or movies so why not have them connected to the amplifier?

(I am basing my assumptions off of what you said in the first post as well as your signature list of equimpent.)

 

[Seth=L]

Who is Lonnie? The reason I ask, is that a hum sounds like a ground loop problem, not a problem with the amplifier itself.

The amplifier itself is humming, not the speaker connected to it (at least from what I understand of Adam's posts).

 

[adk highlander]

Who is Lonnie?

Lonnie is an engineer and handles most of the customer service issues at Emotiva.

There was another thread where we discussed Adams amp quandary and the hum we are speaking of here. This is not a ground loop (not in speakers but amp itself at idle) issue.

Here is a link to the thread. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36407

 

[Gimpy Ric]

Send it back, your Pioneer is not working as hard since its not powering your mains. I'm surprised that it hums! My cheaper LPA-1 is quiet as a church mouse. Good Luck which ever way you go.

 

[Warpdrv]

Just another simple question for you to think about...

Alot of noise can be generated into a system with ground issues, or perhaps you might have an electrical PHASE issue....

Is all your equipment run off of the same circuit in your system...?

If there are two breakers running your electrical system, and they are not in phase with one another, noise can be introduced into the system(hiss), as well as produce grounding issues....

If breakers are installed into the breaker box on the same leg, you are in phase, but if they are not, they could be out of phase, and possibly introduce the noise you are describing....

I have installed 2 new dedicated circuits into my great room, and I was very careful to make sure all 3 circuts in my room were on the same phase, which required me to move breakers around in my panel... no big deal, very easy to do. Took me all of 5 mins to swap around breakers to insure they are correctly in phase with the others on my system...

 

[cbraver]

The amplifier itself is humming, not the speaker connected to it (at least from what I understand of Adam's posts).

The amplifier itself? Maybe fan noise.

I think he means the hiss is through the speakers....

3. When the amps are active, the speakers hooked to the IPS-1 hiss. The same is true when I power the speakers using my receiver, but my receiver shuts the surround channel amps off in stereo mode (whereas the IPS-1 remains on because it's not controlled by the receiver)[/INDENT]

I especially think it's a ground loop, since he says his receiver does the same thing (but is more tolerable because it shuts unused channels off in stereo mode, so the noise isn't as loud).

I'm not positive, but my guess is when he disconnects the coaxial cable running to his cable or sat box the room is going to get really quiet and a big smile is going to come over his face.... knowing that the fix is an inexpensive inline cable part.

 

[cbraver]

Lonnie is an engineer and handles most of the customer service issues at Emotiva.

There was another thread where we discussed Adams amp quandary and the hum we are speaking of here. This is not a ground loop (not in speakers but amp itself at idle) issue.

Here is a link to the thread. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36407

Ah, okay. Haha, you guys respond so fast I can't keep up and my responses stop making sense.

So the amp...plugged in...with nothing else attached to it, hums? Not fan noise, but an electrical HISS? No speakers attached, it hisses?

 

[Warpdrv]

Enjoy the barage of titanic responses from the Audioholics Forum... !!!!

 

[Adam]

I think they have a really strong SPAM filter...

So are you going to look at the Outlaw's or just take a break from amps for a while.

Yep, they do indeed have a spam filter. Odd thing is that my very first inquiry about my first RPA-1 got a quick response, and then apparently my reply to Lonnie's e-mail (after it blew) and others after that got caught in the filter. I was told by Lonnie after that (back in July) that he removed my e-mail address from those that would get filtered. Hasn't helped get responses, though. My two cents - when someone buys their products and provides an e-mail address, that address should automatically be put on the don't-filter list.

I am considering a monoblock from Outlaw.

Who is Lonnie? The reason I ask, is that a hum sounds like a ground loop problem, not a problem with the amplifier itself.

I think that Lonnie is Emotiva's chief technical expert. Good point on the ground loop, but that's not the problem. It's the transformer in the amp itself that is humming.

Are you using the receiver to power the fronts? It seems to me that the front left and right speakers will require the most power for music or movies so why not have them connected to the amplifier?

I'm using the RPA-1 to power the fronts. 200W/channel on that versus the 150/channel from the IPS-1.

EDIT: I've fallen behind! So many quick responses.

 

[Adam]

So the amp...plugged in...with nothing else attached to it, hums? Not fan noise, but an electrical HISS? No speakers attached, it hisses?

Yes, the amp hums all by itself. Not deafening, but noticeable. It's one of the transformers.

The hiss is different. The hiss is from the speakers when they are connected to the IPS-1 and the amp is on (not in standby, but fully on). The hiss caused by the amp itself is fairly quiet and I suspect perfectly normal. When the receiver is on, too, then the center channel hisses a little louder. Not enough for me to send the amp back, but just one more consideration in the big picture for me.

 

[cbraver]

Yes, the amp hums all by itself. Not deafening, but noticeable. It's one of the transformers.

The hiss is different. The hiss is from the speakers when they are connected to the IPS-1 and the amp is on (not in standby, but fully on). The hiss caused by the amp itself is fairly quiet and I suspect perfectly normal. When the receiver is on, too, then the center channel hisses a little louder. Not enough for me to send the amp back, but just one more consideration in the big picture for me.

Okay, so then for sure return the amp. Look at Outlaws or look at pro-sound amps.

Just humor me though, and turn all that stuff on, hisses and all, and then disconnect the coaxial cable from your sat or cable box. See if it lowers the noise level of the hiss to the speakers (it won't do anything for a hissing transformer). It sounds like you have a hissing amp AND a ground-loop problem. Please try this, and see if the noise level goes down, just to humor me... it'll only take a few seconds.

 

[Adam]

Just humor me though, and turn all that stuff on, hisses and all, and then disconnect the coaxial cable from your sat or cable box. See if it lowers the noise level. It sounds like you have a hissing amp AND a ground-loop problem. Please try this, and see if the noise level goes down, just to humor me... it'll only take a few seconds.

I would gladly do that for you, but I don't have cable or a satellite box.

I do appreciate the suggestion, though!

Honestly, I'm confident that the hiss is normal. I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear it if the receiver is not on. Again, dealing with that is more an issue of having an external amp with my receiver and not something specific to the IPS-1. I just like how my receiver shuts off the surround channel amps when in stereo mode, which leads to no sound at all (no hiss, no nothing) coming from the center or surround speakers. It's not a con of the amp but of the implementation in my system.

 

[cbraver]

I would gladly do that for you, but I don't have cable or a satellite box.

I do appreciate the suggestion, though!

Honestly, I'm confident that the hiss is normal. I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear it if the receiver is not on. Again, dealing with that is more an issue of having an external amp with my receiver and not something specific to the IPS-1. I just like how my receiver shuts off the surround channel amps when in stereo mode, which leads to no sound at all (no hiss, no nothing) coming from the center or surround speakers. It's not a con of the amp but of the implementation in my system.

Well that settles that!

Are you planning on looking at any other amps other than the Outlaw?

 

[Seth=L]

Hissing is typical of amplifiers, and he did mention that it may be the Pioneer that is the source of the hiss. Transformer hum is also typical. The power supply windings oscilate making noise, but typically only when they are on. There may be a power supply connected to the trigger circuitry that remains on constantly that would cause the humming, and it would be an iron core instead of a torroid (torroids rarely hum unless they are very old).

 

[Adam]

Are you planning on looking at any other amps other than the Outlaw?

Not right now. I'll probably just stick with my receiver powering the center and rears for a while. I'm glad that I tried out the IPS-1, but I just don't think that it's for me.