Know anything about washing machines?

[psbfan9]

Just as an unhelpful to Swerd, "Oh, by the way" kind of thing...
When I worked at HH Gregg Whirlpool would call and order anywhere from 10 - 250 competitors products. When ever the phone rang in the appliance dept., it was a mad dash to grab it in case it was Whirlpool placing an order. My last week there I was the lucky one to answer the phone one day and sell Whirlpool 250 Haier washers. The joys of commissioned sales.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Don't get me started on Samsung laundry products...I have a story for that.

I want to hear this story...please....

 

[Swerd]

Sorry, had to jump in here but wished I had checked over the weekend. I'm a former Maytag engineer on laundry products and was there at the end. Maytag was in a world of hurt and had two offers, a private equity firm and Whirlpool. Whirlpool's offer was higher, 'nuff said.…

Thanks for that informative post. It was a good read. Living through all that must have been painful. Even remembering all that must have dragged up old memories that you'd sooner leave behind. I do appreciate that.

So, if you had to buy a washer today, what would you get?

Go for an old tech top loader even if it won't last like an old Maytag?

or

Go for the brave new world of processor chip-controlled low-water designs?

 

[darien87]

I've got a Samsung front loader washer and an LG front loader dryer. Bought them both for about 1/2 price as open-box buys from Best Buy. I love my Samsung washer but I did have an issue with the water valve after owning it for about a year, (the machine would be done washing but water would still be dripping into the washing tub, had to shut the water off at the back to make it stop). I did buy the extended warranty since it was an open box though so I got it fixed for free. You do have to buy the HE detergent for it and we always leave the door open after use. You wouldn't think it would wash clothes well since it hardly uses any water but itseems to work as well as the old top loader in our condo.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry, had to jump in here but wished I had checked over the weekend. I'm a former Maytag engineer on laundry products and was there at the end. Maytag was in a world of hurt and had two offers, a private equity firm and Whirlpool. Whirlpool's offer was higher, 'nuff said.

What drug Maytag down? It was a series of events. The appliance industry looked like a normal bell-shaped curve when you looked at the market vs. the price paint (low-med-high) with the middle point having the most sales. That was Maytag's bread and butter with the highest margins. The other guys played at the low end. Then the high-end market in front loaders really exploded with the Maytag Neptune line of washers and dryers. The energy efficiency was very popular in states like California and with changing consumer tastes. Great margins on the products and eventually others wanted to play in that market as well. But that shouldn't have brought Maytag down.

So we now have to look at the business and culture of Maytag. Great place to work, BTW. Maytag, like many old profitable companies, suffered from a terminal case of "fat, dumb, and happy." The company had been around so long and had been successful for so long that it never sought the efficiencies that are needed to survive in a tough world. Why do that when they are profitable and life is good? When other brands were acquired, they were left to run just as they had been before. No design changes to incorporate common parts, maximize manufacturing productivity, etc. As an example, in 2003, Maytag had 4 laundry factories that made top-loading washers that all competed at the same price points. Not only that, but they didn't have common parts. Sure two of them used the same motor only "we know better so our motor mount is rotated 90 degrees..." so same motor, but different mounts and therefore different belts. Two platforms had essentially the same water valve, only one facility insisted their coils needed to be rotated 15 degrees. New part number, less volume, higher part cost. Plus each factory had it's own design staff all doing their own thing because each design team was smarter than everyone else.

There were efforts to commonize parts and drive discounts with single supplier sourcing. But those efforts were undermined at the local level by the local fiefdoms as they worked to protect their long-term supplier buddies. You know, the supplier that is your drinking and golfing buddy. So the high margin parts were kept locally sourced and the crap was offered up to the single-source supplier who looked at it and said "no thanks." At one point, the company was so not integrated that it had 3 full and complete HR departments for 3 businesses. The systems were all different with no communication and nothing in common. So no economies of scale and tons of duplication which costs money. Not saying it's all HR's fault, it is just one example of the many costly and expensive duplications that were present within Maytag.

Ok, so now Maytag is and was fat, profitable, full of individual kingdoms run by fiercely territorial kings, had a new CEO from Whirlpool who was a finance guy who knew numbers, but lacked the charisma to lead the people like the old CEO, and did not understand the strong Maytag culture, and a marketplace that was shifting from many, many small, independent appliance dealers to big box retailers. So what happened? September 11, 2001.

Huh? Yeah, remember 9-11? What did people do? They nested. People stayed home with their families. The home regained the position as the castle. Remodeling and upgrading became the norm. This happened very rapidly in terms of market change, 6 - 12 months. The bell-shaped market curve I mentioned? Yeah, invert that. The market went from high in the middle to either cheap or expensive. Home upgraders went high end. Great! Maytag had the high end front loaders. Yep. But that wasn't enough to make up for the loss in the middle market. Not when you have so many factories all making products competing against each other at the same price point under the same brand name. Let's look at Whirlpool as a comparison. Take a standard Whirlpool top-load washer circa 2000. From just below the washer top all the way to the bottom, they were essentially the same guts. Same parts, same design, same assembly, all made in one factory. Massive economies of scale. When Whirlpool was bidding out parts for a volume of 1.5-2 million pieces a year, each of Maytag's factories was bidding out volumes of 300-400k because they had no common parts. Big difference in purchasing power and pricing leverage. No one and I mean no one can make a cheap washer like Whirlpool. Not talking quality, just talking cost.

Now, throw in that in the early 2000's, the retail market had changed from the majority of sales being small, local mom & pop retailers to 90% of the market being big box retailers (10 of them) with their pricing leverage accordingly. So Maytag sat there after 9-11 with the market rapidly changing, with a very high cost structure, with big-box retailers putting big downward pressure on pricing (the price they paid, not what the consumer paid), and they went from fat, profitable, and happy to losing their *** and cash dwindling rapidly. Throw in the resistance to the initiatives to economies of scale, the little kingdoms, etc., and Maytag went the way of the dinosaur very quickly.

A lot of long-time employees blame the last CEO. He rightfully share the some of the blame because you couldn't run Maytag from a glass tower where you don't mingle with the "little people" like is done at Whirlpool. Maytag's culture requires a leader to be in front of the people. He figured this out too late. But blame also is shared by the CEO he replaced. Old timers look at this guy as almost a Jesus-like figure. But he shares the blame because a lot of the economies of scale that should have been put in place with each acquisition under his leadership were never done. You do that when you are profitable, not when you are starving to death. Ultimately, savings were gained, but too little, too late.

It was a shame since Maytag made a good product. Great laundry products (still have my Neptune washer and drying cabinet). Great cooking products. Great refridgerators. Solidly built and lasted.

One of the reasons appliance don't last anymore if it's all about money. Cost reduction. If the average life of an appliance in the market is 6.8 years and yours lasts 14, you are leaving money on the table. Thinner plastic, cheaper bearings, cheaper seals, thinner metal, cheaper grades of stainless steel, etc. Yeah they don't last because they aren't made the same. They are designed to be made as cheaply as possible because people will just go buy a new one when it breaks in 5 years. It's all about money.

Don't get me started on Samsung laundry products...I have a story for that.

That's a very sorry tale. However I still think you should be able to buy a clothes washer with a 25 year lifespan. This made to fail policy is very wasteful.

The problem is, talking to the repair guys, a lot of this stuff is not making it out of warranty. The companies pay the repair guys practically nothing for warranty woork. In fact GE do pay them nothing, and say they are directing them future business.

When my GE double ovens needed warranty service, I could not find anyone who would provide warranty service. After a hassle, GE did send the part I needed free of charge, and I had to do the warranty work myself!

I could tell you an absolute horror story about the Bosch double ovens, that were so poorly designed I had to out them. When I returned them to the vendor I cut every wiring harness, so they could not palm the the unit off on somebody else.

The most ridiculous part of the Bosch story was that it seemed to me there was a part missing. Well Bosch never made this part and told me I had to fabricate my own! This I did, but the ovens were still useless as the geometry of the door hinges were incorrect and could never produce tight door closure. This made the ovens useless for their intended use, cooking! There was a laundry list of stupid design mistakes on the unit and it cost over $3000.

The GE monograms have been pretty good, but they are known for the convention element failing. I just replaced the second one before writing this post.

 

[lsiberian]

That's a very sorry tale. However I still think you should be able to buy a clothes washer with a 25 year lifespan. This made to fail policy is very wasteful.

The problem is, talking to the repair guys, a lot of this stuff is not making it out of warranty. The companies pay the repair guys practically nothing for warranty woork. In fact GE do pay them nothing, and say they are directing them future business.

When my GE double ovens needed warranty service, I could not find anyone who would provide warranty service. After a hassle, GE did send the part I needed free of charge, and I had to do the warranty work myself!

I could tell you an absolute horror story about the Bosch double ovens, that were so poorly designed I had to out them. When I returned them to the vendor I cut every wiring harness, so they could not palm the the unit off on somebody else.

The most ridiculous part of the Bosch story was that it seemed to me there was a part missing. Well Bosch never made this part and told me I had to fabricate my own! This I did, but the ovens were still useless as the geometry of the door hinges were incorrect and could never produce tight door closure. This made the ovens useless for their intended use, cooking! There was a laundry list of stupid design mistakes on the unit and it cost over $3000.

The GE monograms have been pretty good, but they are known for the convention element failing. I just replaced the second one before writing this post.

Perhaps refurbishing old units would be a better plan. I may even look into that given the horror stories. What is the point in spending 1000 dollars on a unit that breaks in 10 years when I can get the same thing for 100 dollars.

 

[TLS Guy]

Perhaps refurbishing old units would be a better plan. I may even look into that given the horror stories. What is the point in spending 1000 dollars on a unit that breaks in 10 years when I can get the same thing for 100 dollars.

That might be a plan, but it assumes two things.

1). Parts are available and in this day and age, that's unlikely.

2). That the parts you do get are of original quality. In this day and age that is unlikely.

I hear stories from service guys if motors sourced from China that spin the wrong way! There are plenty of other horror stories abounding.

 

[lsiberian]

That might be a plan, but it assumes two things.

1). Parts are available and in this day and age, that's unlikely.

2). That the parts you do get are of original quality. In this day and age that is unlikely.

I hear stories from service guys if motors sourced from China that spin the wrong way! There are plenty of other horror stories abounding.

Sadly it is a throw away society. I tried to get my grandfather to switch to computers from electronics, but even that is going away. I can buy a 260 dollar computer that is a cloud server.

 

[Midwesthonky]

Thanks for that informative post. It was a good read. Living through all that must have been painful. Even remembering all that must have dragged up old memories that you'd sooner leave behind. I do appreciate that.

So, if you had to buy a washer today, what would you get?

Go for an old tech top loader even if it won't last like an old Maytag?

or

Go for the brave new world of processor chip-controlled low-water designs?

Honestly, I don't know what unit I would purchase. I bought my Neptune washer as a refurb because I did the repairs with our departments tech. So I knew it was good to go. I also put a Neptune refurb in my mom's house. I do any repairs myself, but really haven't needed to in the last 10 years.

Here is my take on top load vs. front load.
Top loading washers with the center agitator use mostly mechanical means to remove dirt from your clothes. In non-technical terms, that means the agitator rubs on your clothes and gets them swishing through the water. Naturally, that is harder on the clothes than you will get in a non-agitator top-load or in a front load. So your clothes will wear faster. But mechanical washing dates back to the old river and rock method and it's effective. Top loading washers usually are better at not leaking since it's a tub with a transmission coming up through the bottom instead of sealing a door like on front-loads. But, you have to fill the tub with water so top loads use more water. More hot water means more money spent heating that water. So it is not as efficient. Top loaders are nice from the standpoint that you don't have to bend down to empty your clothes out. But if you use the agitator cup for liquid fabric softener, never ever open it up to look inside because the mold will disgust you. Mold loves the proteins in liquid fabric softener.

Front loaders use primarily chemical action to remove the dirt from your clothes. Hence the need for the HE detergent. It contains more of the ingredients that get the dirt out. On the plus side, less mechanical agitation means your clothes will last longer. I noticed this when I went from a 1996 model Amana washer to the front loading Maytag Neptune. My docker/khaki pants lasted significantly longer and I wore them out in different places. Front loaders use less water. So if you are in a drought prone area, less water is a good thing. Less water means less energy used to heat it...and you get the efficiency differences. It can be quite a difference in water usage. Originally, front loaders had a smaller tub and you couldn't do as large of loads, but that is most gone away now. A drawback to front loaders is you have to bend over to load and unload which can be a problem for people with back issues. Yes, you can buy stands to raise them up, but that just makes leveling and balancing them that much harder. If on a concrete floor, you can use a stand. Front loaders seal the entire tub so they are prone to mold and smell. I don't care what the manufacturer says, it is an issue for all front loaders. We simply leave our washer door open so it can dry out. Once every couple of months or so, we run either an empty load with bleach or one of those washer treatment packs. That takes care of any mold.

Top Loader Pluses:
- Typically cheaper than front loaders to purchase
- No bending at waist for loading & unloading
- Mechanically simple and simple controls, easy to repair
- Really don't have a mold issue as the lid doesn't seal against the tub, as long as you ignore liquid fabric softener
- typically a shorter wash time than front loaders

Top Loader minuses:
- Uses a lot more water and therefore a lot more energy
- harder on your clothing
- Slower spin cycle so less water removed means more time spent in dryer at the cost of energy

Front Loader Pluses:
- More energy Efficient - less water and less energy to heat water, plus higher spin speed means less water means less dry time
- Gentle on the clothes so they last longer

Front Loader minuses:
- Typically more expensive to purchase
- prone to mold if door kept shut
- Less ergonomic to use (bend at waist to empty and load)

So which way to go? Honestly, look at the pluses and minuses. Decide what you can live with and what you can't. Then do some research for models of the brands that meet your criteria. It could be a mix of top load and front load. Then I saw watch ads. Look for model close-outs or other ways to get a great deal. If you have time to wait, make up your list of models and then go for the best deal you can find.

Note: It is hard to compare model vs. model amongst the big box retailers. Typically, each big box commands enough buying power that they say we want an exclusive model. They do that so customers can't do price matching with the ads because no one else has it. For a manufacturer, it is literally a spreadsheet with each retailer and boxes listing who has what combination of features. The guts are the same and the only difference may be a volume control for the end of cycle chime. But that means a new model number and there fore no price matching.

Don't get hung up on some of the features and options. For any model line up, the guts are the same. It's usually a programming change in the software or adding some switches to activate features. Like a switch for an extra rinse cycle. It's already built into the software, but add a harness, switch and some labor for about $1.28 and you can command $50 - $100 in price at the retail level. So my point is, don't spend $300 extra to get the top of the model lineup unit when the lower ones have the same guts.

As for manufacturers...it was years ago, but we tore apart a Bosch unit. I was impressed with the rugged design and how it was assembled. But truth, I think most if not all are worse than what you could get 15 years ago.

 

[Swerd]

Honestly, I don't know what unit I would purchase…

Midwesthonky

Thank so much for all your comments . Of all the stuff I read about washers over the internet in the past several weeks, yours is by far the best. Your direct experience with the design, development, and marketing of these products, and your ability to write about it clearly, made your insights valuable.

I will be sure to tell my wife what you said about fabric softeners. She is a lab scientist and will readily understand.

Based on what you've said, We're ready to pull the trigger on a Whirlpool WTW5700XW3 that was just marked down another $100 to $500, final installed price including rebates will be $512. It is last year's model and the dealer wants to move them out of their warehouse. For what it's worth, Whirlpool and the dealer assure me it is essentially the same as the present WTW5700AC model.

This is a new tech top loading model without an agitator and without door seals. It more resembles a front loading machine with a processor controlled direct drive electric motor, very low water use, and requires HE detergent. So, I'm gambling that Whirlpool (and others) have learned from the various early mistakes made with the new tech top loaders. Whirlpool claims its made in the USA. They also claim, the fabric softener dispenser get rinsed each time the washer is run.

I wish I could repay the favor someday, but I work in cancer research and run clinical trials of new experimental drugs. I sincerely hope you never need to hear anything about that .

Richard

 

[Midwesthonky]

Midwesthonky

Thank so much for all your comments . Of all the stuff I read about washers over the internet in the past several weeks, yours is by far the best. Your direct experience with the design, development, and marketing of these products, and your ability to write about it clearly, made your insights valuable.

I will be sure to tell my wife what you said about fabric softeners. She is a lab scientist and will readily understand.

Based on what you've said, We're ready to pull the trigger on a Whirlpool WTW5700XW3 that was just marked down another $100 to $500, final installed price including rebates will be $512. It is last year's model and the dealer wants to move them out of their warehouse. For what it's worth, Whirlpool and the dealer assure me it is essentially the same as the present WTW5700AC model.

This is a new tech top loading model without an agitator and without door seals. It more resembles a front loading machine with a processor controlled direct drive electric motor, very low water use, and requires HE detergent. So, I'm gambling that Whirlpool (and others) have learned from the various early mistakes made with the new tech top loaders. Whirlpool claims its made in the USA. They also claim, the fabric softener dispenser get rinsed each time the washer is run.

I wish I could repay the favor someday, but I work in cancer research and run clinical trials of new experimental drugs. I sincerely hope you never need to hear anything about that .

Richard

You are welcome. It's sad to say it, but the state of the appliance industry today is unless you go ultra premium, the units are essentially disposable. So if you can get a great price on a model clearance, that really is the way to go. Look at the features and then get the best price possible. Most model year changes are essentially cosmetic. Maybe a subtle change to the software on the board, a color change, or some adjustments to the features and options. The guts usually stay the same.

Most units today are designed for a family of 2 to 3 with a life span of about 5 years. Typical warranty rates for new units will run between 5-10% for the first year. Better units down around 5% and worse units around 10%.

Life span...if it's just two adults that don't do a lot of wardrobe changes each day, the unit should easily last you 5-10 years. If you are family with 2 or more kids, be happy if you hit 5 years just because you have so many more loads to run each week.

As for repair part availability, I'm trying to remember what the rules are. I think the law required 10 years for all functional parts like motors, switches, etc. Some manufacturers are better at having parts available than others. But remember, parts on the shelf is the company's cash sitting on the shelf. So they try to keep the inventory as minimal as possible and still meet certain levels of service (that vary with each manufacturer and some just don't care). So if there is a run on parts because of a defect, that can definitely impact availability.

I have an advantage that I know how to work on the laundry products. As long as I can get parts, I can do the repair. Or if the micro switch on the touch panel fails and I don't want to pay $300 for a new switch panel, I will wire up a momentary switch from Radio Shack (pack of 3 for $2.49) to the control board and mount it to the plastic panel. Boom, repair done for $2.49 in parts and my labor. Most people don't even realize the switch doesn't belong there. I had to add the new switch because my wife wasn't in favor of leaving the control panel open and starting the dryer by shorting the two leads on the control board with a pair of needle nose pliers. It was too redneck for her.

Now, I also used to do repair part pricing. So if you bought Maytag/Amana/Jenn Air parts before Whirlpool bout Maytag, well, you can be mad at me. I was very good at my job. Which brings a learning opportunity. Remember the stainless steel fad in appliances? Oh, I loved those repair parts. The cost of the stainless steel part would only be $5-$10 more than the painted part. But the perceived value to a consumer meant I could command a LOT higher prices because consumers perceived it as being more valuable. Hence, I made much higher margins on stainless parts. So factor that in the next time you are considering a stainless steel appliance. The cost to make the stainless steel vs. painted appliance is only going to be around $10-$25 depending on commodity prices and how much is stainless. But the retail cost is usually much higher. People perceive it as more valuable and are willing to pay for that perception.

Refridgerators with top-mount freezers are the cheapest and most basic unit out there. They are also the lowest margin units and regardless of manufacturer, as usually contracted out to whomever has a factory tooled up to make them. The margins are so low you can't set up your own factory and make your money back. So you just contract it out to someone with a factory already making them. Bottom mount freezers and side-by-sides, etc. are more complex and usually have two or more compressors. More to go wrong. Yet, I have a french door fridge knowing full well that it has at least two compressors and a lot more to possibly go wrong. It's what I wanted. But I bought it as a model year closeout that they wanted to get rid of since it was the last one in stock. $500 less than current model year for essentially the same unit.

I could go on and on...

 

[darien87]

Now, I also used to do repair part pricing. So if you bought Maytag/Amana/Jenn Air parts before Whirlpool bout Maytag, well, you can be mad at me.

Bottom mount freezers and side-by-sides, etc. are more complex and usually have two or more compressors. More to go wrong. Yet, I have a french door fridge knowing full well that it has at least two compressors and a lot more to possibly go wrong. It's what I wanted. But I bought it as a model year closeout that they wanted to get rid of since it was the last one in stock. $500 less than current model year for essentially the same unit.

I could go on and on...

You bastard!


I have a French door bottom freezer unit by LG. It was a $2,000 fridge that I got for $800 as an open box that had a small ding at the bottom of the right side door. My wife HATED that it wasn't brand spankin' new, but I put a Whirlpool label over the ding and she's been quiet ever since. I did buy the extended warranty since it was an essentially used item.

We had this weird issue where every couple of months or so the fridge would get really cold inside. So cold that the milk would have little ice chips in it. It wouldn't warm up unless you turned it all the way down and then the fridge would be warm inside so we'd be playing this game of turning the fridge up and down to try and get the temperature to stabilize. We'd get it right and then a few months later it would do it all over again. Drove me nuts. We had a repair guy out once and he gave my wife some BS story about the doors not being closed all the way. 6 months later we had the problem again so I had another guy out. He ended up replacing the computer in the fridge but he gave us this even lamer story about how the ambient temperature of the house affects the temperature of the fridge, (i.e. if it's hot int he house the fridge is going to be warmer and vice versa). Excuse me but isn't that EXACTLY the opposite of how a fridge should work? Shouldn't the fridge be adjusting itself so that no matter what the ambient temperature is, the temperature inside the fridge always stays the same???

 

[Midwesthonky]

Fridges are not as "smart" as the manufacturers want you to believe. You do have a weird problem. I'm not as familiar with their unique issues. I do know that Maytag was the first one out with the French door design. It was introduced as a Kenmore model under contract with Sears since Sears is all about "Hey, let us have it first and we'll take care of you." All the asian manufacturers were all over it at it's first show. They are the biggest copy cats in the world and had theirs out within 12 months. As soon as the 1 year exclusive was up with Sears and their Kenmore brand, Sears dropped us and went with, I think, LG as the manufacturer. The first 20,000 LG made Kenmore units were then later recalled... As pricing guy, I set Sears prices including the negotiations. After the french door/Kenmore fiasco, I took them for well over $800k in extra profit. Don't piss off the pricing guy.

Fridges should adjust to the seasonal changes in your ambient home temperature. Well, the higher end ones should. Low end ones are just "dumb" units and have to be manually adjusted. Our Maytag unit doesn't have the milk ice chip thing going on and I have no complaints on it so far. But you got a heck of a price on your fridge. If you had the opposite problem and it was getting warm inside, I would say you might have a compressor that occasionally sticks and doesn't run. Any build up of ice on any of the door seals that could be causing an air leak?

 

[darien87]

Any build up of ice on any of the door seals that could be causing an air leak?

Not that I know of. But I don't think we've had the temperature issue since the computer got replaced. *knock wood*

And yes it is stainless steel and we did pay to have the stove and microwave "upgraded" to stainless when we had the house built. We didn't do the dishwasher though since you had to upgrade to a higher end model and the price difference wasn't worth it to me.

 

[Rickster71]

Remember the stainless steel fad in appliances?
Oh, I loved those repair parts. The cost of the stainless steel part would only be $5-$10 more than the painted part. But the perceived value to a consumer meant I could command a LOT higher prices because consumers perceived it as being more valuable. Hence, I made much higher margins on stainless parts. So factor that in the next time you are considering a stainless steel appliance. The cost to make the stainless steel vs. painted appliance is only going to be around $10-$25 depending on commodity prices and how much is stainless. But the retail cost is usually much higher. People perceive it as more valuable and are willing to pay for that perception.

Great post!
Unfortunately perception is everything.
It's manipulated everyday.....all day.
Which is why I encourage people to read about the grandfather of marketing, Edward Bernays.

 

[Adam]

Fridges are not as "smart" as the manufacturers want you to believe.

 

[darien87]

Thanks for posting that. I like Brian Regan but he bugs me with that weird walking around thing he does every time he tells a joke.

 

[Swerd]

… Based on what you've said, We're ready to pull the trigger on a Whirlpool WTW5700XW3 that was just marked down another $100 to $500, final installed price including rebates will be $512. It is last year's model and the dealer wants to move them out of their warehouse. For what it's worth, Whirlpool and the dealer assure me it is essentially the same as the present WTW5700AC model.

This is a new tech top loading model without an agitator and without door seals. It more resembles a front loading machine with a processor controlled direct drive electric motor, very low water use, and requires HE detergent. So, I'm gambling that Whirlpool (and others) have learned from the various early mistakes made with the new tech top loaders. Whirlpool claims its made in the USA. They also claim, the fabric softener dispenser get rinsed each time the washer is run.

The other day I got a notice in the mail from Whirlpool reminding me that my washer is nearly a year old, and that I should hurry to take advantage of a special deal they have for me on an extended warranty. Yeah, right!

But it did remind of this thread from back when I was learning about the brave new world of washing machines. And I thought a 1-year follow up was worth posting.

I did get the washer I mentioned above. And after nearly a year, its been fine. No mechanical troubles, and it works rather well. My wife and I decided that we had to give it a chance before we made any judgments about it. We followed the directions, and we learned (despite the glass door on top) to never watch while it was in progress.

When we had watched, we almost convinced ourselves that it would never get clothes clean because it used so very little water. So we walked away and let it finish the full cycle. The big difference is that the full cycle is very long (roughly 1 hour) compared to the old top loading machines (roughly 10-15 minutes). So, apparently, some of those engineers knew what they were doing after all .

The real lesson I learned is that the so-called Green Label is largely fiction. The savings on the Green Label assume the owner uses electrically heated water. I use natural gas for that which costs significantly less to heat water than electricity. I also never use hot water to wash clothes. Detergent works well even in cold water. The savings in water use is literally a drop in the bucket compared to the estimated savings in electrically heated hot water. If you live where water costs much more than in Maryland, all that will be different.

We did switch to the low sudsing so called "high efficiency" detergent, and we never use fabric softener.

I want to thank Midwesthonky again for his insight and advice on this subject.

 

[Chu Gai]

Although it is frugal with water, is there any option to fill it significantly more so that clothes could be left to soak for an extended period?

 

[Hi Ho]

I did not see this thread originally. I just wanted to chime in and say that when I bought my Samsung front loading washer over two years ago I was not expecting the significant savings on my power bill that I got. First off, the local PUD gave me a $75 rebate just for buying a new washer. Then on my next power/water bill I could see that I used less than half as much water as I had the previous month and my power bill was almost 15% lower than average for that month. I have an electric water heater and the fact that the washer uses so little water and the clothes come out so dry so drying time is much less really makes a difference. Clothes come out very clean and I really have noticed that they do not wear out like they used to. I would have gone through several pairs of jeans by now in my old washer but I haven't had to buy new jeans for almost 2 years! I am still using an old Kenmore dryer I got on Craigslist for $40. The auto dry function works great and it doesn't over dry the clothes at all.

Time will tell how long the Samsung will hold up but I run it almost every single day and I have had no issues so far. I also keep the door propped open and have no issues with smells or mold.

Oh yeah. The best part about the Samsung washer is the song it plays when it's finished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTSXhEJtqKA&feature=youtu.be